Test E cycle - Taper Cycle?

[dank311]

Im about to start my first test E cycle and was plannning just to do 10wks of 500mgs all the way through with just arimidex 1mg EOD.

I have expressed my concerns of PCT and coming off and returning to normal after cycle with a guy who has been doing them for almost 20yrs now. He told me a good idea was to taper through the cycle so it gets your body used to it as well as slowly tapering off can help return the HTPA smoother and have a successful PCT without the use of a SERM.

I have also done a bit of research and have found that there is pretty significant debate on tapering vs contant levels, just as with PCT in general.

I was wondering what most here would advise me to do for my first cycle?

Here is the taper I was planning to use..

wk1 250mg
wk2 250mg
wk3 500mg
wk4 500mg
wk5 750mg
wk6 750mg
wk7 750mg
wk8 750mg
wk9 500mg
wk10 250mg
wk11 250mg
wk12 175mg
wk13 175mg

 

[nosnmiveins]

stay constant, fluctuations is blood levels will just leed to sides.

 

[Iron Warrior]

Don't taper

 

[dank311]

stay constant, fluctuations is blood levels will just leed to sides.

Do you have any scientific articles, journals, studies, that proves this? B/c naturally hormone levels fluctuate all the time with different levels of exercise, sleep, diet, etc...

 

[dank311]

Don't taper

Any reasons why? I started this thread to have a discussion on why one way could possibly be better than the other. No offense, but just getting a reply that says dont taper is not very informative. Seriously, Im not trying to be a ****, but Im just trying to get some reasoning why...

 

[nosnmiveins]

as u can see ur getting the same responses on this board as well as the "other" board. if u want an explaination then search on google. this question is asked about 100 time a day.

if there is absolutely NO way for u to get a SERM then i can see where tapering down may be wise. but that should not be the case.

 

[holyintellect]

Here is why you shouldnt taper up or down...

Suppression of your testes is going to occur very rapidly and while it is impossible to predict the exact mg amount when it will happen, we certainly know that 250mgs is plenty enough to cause it to begin. So, by beginning a cycle at 250mgs, and then tapering up, you're not helping anything as far as preventing suppression because the initial amount was already enough to cause it. Knowing that, you may as well start out at the amount you plan on running the length of the cycle....

As far as tapering down, the exact same logic applies...in your case, by the time you were to get to the 9th week when you were to begin tapering down, you are absolutely going to be experiencing some sort of suppression. To what extent we dont know, but obviously 500mgs will be well above the amount required to continue suppression. Its possible tapering down could work, but in order for it to do so, we would have to be able to pinpoint the precise amount you could take without it causing any suppression whatsoever. If we knew that magic number, and its going to be different for everyone, then you could theoretically taper down to that amount, and it would allow your endogenous production to begin while still using the lesser, tapered dose.

holy

 

[dank311]

as u can see ur getting the same responses on this board as well as the "other" board. if u want an explaination then search on google. this question is asked about 100 time a day.

if there is absolutely NO way for u to get a SERM then i can see where tapering down may be wise. but that should not be the case.

Yes, I know...I have talked to numerous people about this and it all seems to be more of a personal preference thing. The purpose of me asking was to get a few opinions from other sources. I have searched a bit online, and there are tons of speculations, but since there arent many AAS studies oriented towards bodybuilding, its just that...speculation. I guess I was just looking from someone who has possibly tried both who could reply with their experience. And yes, I do have access to clomid or nolvadex.

 

[dank311]

Here is why you shouldnt taper up or down...

Suppression of your testes is going to occur very rapidly and while it is impossible to predict the exact mg amount when it will happen, we certainly know that 250mgs is plenty enough to cause it to begin. So, by beginning a cycle at 250mgs, and then tapering up, you're not helping anything as far as preventing suppression because the initial amount was already enough to cause it. Knowing that, you may as well start out at the amount you plan on running the length of the cycle....

As far as tapering down, the exact same logic applies...in your case, by the time you were to get to the 9th week when you were to begin tapering down, you are absolutely going to be experiencing some sort of suppression. To what extent we dont know, but obviously 500mgs will be well above the amount required to continue suppression. Its possible tapering down could work, but in order for it to do so, we would have to be able to pinpoint the precise amount you could take without it causing any suppression whatsoever. If we knew that magic number, and its going to be different for everyone, then you could theoretically taper down to that amount, and it would allow your endogenous production to begin while still using the lesser, tapered dose.

holy

Thanks holy, good reply. From what I have read, I guess this is the reasoning why some people like tapering off. I guess that some people go soo low that when then get down to 10-25mg that it works for those some people, and they seem to have a smooth transition into recovery...and others seem to see its unnecessary. Have you personally given tapering a try? or are you just against it?

 

[Iron Warrior]

Any reasons why? I started this thread to have a discussion on why one way could possibly be better than the other. No offense, but just getting a reply that says dont taper is not very informative. Seriously, Im not trying to be a ****, but Im just trying to get some reasoning why...

Because your natural test production will be shutdown so you might as well make the best of it by staying on a higher dose. You'll be shutdown at 200mg so why not keep your dose at 500-750 (depending on experience) ?

 

[holyintellect]

Thanks holy, good reply. From what I have read, I guess this is the reasoning why some people like tapering off. I guess that some people go soo low that when then get down to 10-25mg that it works for those some people, and they seem to have a smooth transition into recovery...and others seem to see its unnecessary. Have you personally given tapering a try? or are you just against it?

Many moons ago, I used to taper down in the belief that it was the best thing to do....since then, not only have I learned a great deal, but I was lead by much wiser people than myself....

holy

 

[Luck 6]

I don't have much experience here... But to me the common sense of it all would suggest a proper PCT is much better than tapering, and using both methods in conjunction would seem useless..

Follow me here:

You get shut down at a low dose of Test - E, let's say even 150mg... And as we know, there is only either SHUT DOWN... or NOT SHUT DOWN... There is no in between, so follow this:

wk1 250mg -SHUT DOWN, as of week one
wk2 250mg
wk3 500mg
wk4 500mg
wk5 750mg
wk6 750mg
wk7 750mg
wk8 750mg
wk9 500mg
wk10 250mg
wk11 250mg
wk12 175mg
wk13 175mg - STILL SHUT DOWN, in week 13

As you stop in week 14... Your body will still be shut down and now attempting to jump start itself with no PCT. Sure, it may not FEEL as different because at 175mg you won't get the same test buzz that you get at 500mg... But the fact of the matter is, your still shut down. To me, I'd think this would be detrimental to both gains and your health potentially.

 

[Brolic]

week1-12 250 2x a week..DONE

 

[dank311]

thanks for everyones response. Looks like I am just going to do the 500mg for 10 weeks. If at 10 weeks I think I can gain more, I will possible go for another two weeks. I have arimidex, but not sure if Im going to use it. I have heard its best to take more towards the end of the cycle, so I might jsut use it for the last 4 or so weeks. I will also get ahold of some nolvadex for PCT. Thanks for all the input here.

 

[Behemoth1]

Here is the taper I was planning to use..

wk1 250mg
wk2 250mg
wk3 500mg
wk4 500mg
wk5 750mg
wk6 750mg
wk7 750mg
wk8 750mg
wk9 500mg
wk10 250mg
wk11 250mg
wk12 175mg
wk13 175mg

175mgs of test e is roughly only 125mgs of actual test the rest being enanthate ester. so your saying the last two weeks of your cycle you wanna waste using hormone replacement therapy levels? neh, just run 500 the whole way through

 

[trend747]

As you stop in week 14... Your body will still be shut down and now attempting to jump start itself with no PCT.

Just to point out real quick: His body won't be trying to jumpstart at all. Test-E has a 2 week half life... So he actually should start his PCT at week 15.

IMO, a good cycle for him would be:

Wk 1-12: 500mg Test-E
Wk 13-14: Dianabol 30mg
Wk 15-18: Clomid 150/50/50/50
Wk 19: Bloodwork

The idea is that he will know by week 12 what his sides are, so he can safely start on D-bol and assess any sides and will know that if there are any new sides, it's coming from the D-bol. Then as his body is coming off of the test, he can keep his blood levels going for a couple more weeks. Since D-bol has a short half life, he can instantly go right into his PCT.

This kind of a cycle for a beginner allows them to:

a) Assess a compound's side effects one at a time, and
b) Allow the use of D-bol in another cycle at the beginning with knowledge of any sides...

 

[holyintellect]

I have arimidex, but not sure if Im going to use it. I have heard its best to take more towards the end of the cycle, so I might jsut use it for the last 4 or so weeks.

Arimidex will be helpful from the get-go.....Its going to prevent the aromatization of testosterone to estrogen....this will keep all those nasty estrogen related sides down, and also keep the bloat to a minimum.

holy