3ad vs Havoc gyno related?

[footster]

Just trying to narrow it down, because many say to just take Havoc because it is a mild steriod anyway. However, I feel I might be gyno prone. So my question is would 3ad be a worse desicion(for gyno) since its not methylated and could be more easily converted to estrogen? As Havoc is methyated, and is less chance for conversion. Of course proper PCT is a main factor for delayed gyno. Just wondering if this is wrong ideology or somewhat on the right track.

 

[jeremy02]

I don't know what's up with all these people saying Havoc causes gyno, but it is the same compound as Epistane and neither of them will cause gyno to flare up...maybe after cycle having estrogen rebound but that's it.

 

[footster]

I've just heard of gyno flaring up after cycle. But was just curious what would be the better option.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

3AD is very mild but with proper pct gyno should not be a issue for Havoc

Nolva 20/20/10/10

Post Cycle Support weeks 2-5 2 caps a.m. and 2 caps p.m.

You should be fine with this pct for Havoc. Good luck bro.:thumbsup:

 

[dsade]

Methylation has nothing to do with conversion to estrogen.

 

[footster]

cool. I know everyone is talking about gyno and freaking out.I know you just gotta be smart and be ready for anything. I just want to make sure I make the best choice to minimize the chance. Always been self-conscience of my chest as it is.

I thought since 3-AD is not methyl, there is more chance for conversion into other horomones? Because methylated bi-passes the liver, converting straight into test? defiently correct if I'm wrong.

 

[aquanutz]

cool. I know everyone is talking about gyno and freaking out.I know you just gotta be smart and be ready for anything. I just want to make sure I make the best choice to minimize the chance. Always been self-conscience of my chest as it is.

I thought since 3-AD is not methyl, there is more chance for conversion into other horomones? Because methylated bi-passes the liver, converting straight into test? defiently correct if I'm wrong.

Methylation helps a steroid get past the liver and into the body.

 

[Trauma1]

Methylation helps a steroid get past the liver and into the body.

Exactly. Methylation is provided to protect against metabolism of the compound by the "First Pass Effect" brought on by the liver.

 

[footster]

I guess thats what I'm trying to say is If methylation bypasses the liver...wouldnt there be less conversion into other hormones, then 3-AD since its not methylated.

 

[Necroticism]

I guess thats what I'm trying to say is If methylation bypasses the liver...wouldnt there be less conversion into other hormones, then 3-AD since its not methylated.

methylation does not bypass the liver. methylation allows it to survive when it goes through the liver. so using the logic you are using, wouldnt the methyl have MORE conversion to other hormones with the same amount of each substance since more survives in the methylation? i doubt this is the real case, but i am trying to understand your logic.

 

[Necroticism]

btw i used 3ad at 6 caps a day for 4 weeks along with epi at 20/30/40/40 in a 6 week bridge with toremifene for pct, and the mild gyno i had from my 19-nor cycle a year earlier completely disappeared. so i doubt you will get gyno from either of these compounds if you have a proper pct.

 

[footster]

cool great advice. Sorry about all the methyl questions about the liver, probably not wording it right, but thanks for trying and answereing bro.

 

[Titanium]

Conversion to estrogen depends on the compound not weather it is methylated or not. Neither of these compounds convert directly to estrogen so no worries.

 

[footster]

For a beginner, would 3-AD be a better choice? I know Havoc is also called for beginners, bc of its mildness. I know both should be taken seriously though.

 

[Necroticism]

3ad or havoc would both be good beginner choices, along with halodrol IMO. if you have properly researched both of them, and know how to use them with proper precautions, you will have little to no side effects. going back to a personal cycle, i ran 3ad and havoc together with no sides. but everybody responds differently, and i recommend picking them up separately and running them on their own. it just depends on how worried you are about sides and how much you want to gain.

 

[footster]

true. Well havoc I've been researching for about a year. But as soon as i was ready i really messed my shoulder up. FINALLY all the way back, and just trying to save the money. Thanks for the advice. I might just keep bulking for the winter wit some creatine glucanate and WMS, high cals diet and cut wit havoc for the summer.

 

[poopypants]

true. Well havoc I've been researching for about a year. But as soon as i was ready i really messed my shoulder up. FINALLY all the way back, and just trying to save the money. Thanks for the advice. I might just keep bulking for the winter wit some creatine glucanate and WMS, high cals diet and cut wit havoc for the summer.

good plan.