"Tren" Designer Information / Write-Up
- 09-30-2008, 08:13 AM
"Tren" Designer Steroid Information / Write-Up
I wanted to put together a list of the so called “Tren” Designer Steroid compounds for anyone that might be thinking of planning a cycle. There are more than four molecular compounds that bear the “tren” name, two of which are the same but have different nomenclatures.
First and foremost, it is important to point out that the “tren” compounds are not prosteroids to the illegal AAS Trenbolone. They are similar as they are progestins. As Chad Brooks pointed out, the Esta-4,9-diene-3,17-dione molecule is the base molecule for trenbolone. (See the write up below for the Estra-4,9)
I’ve included some information on each compound that I felt was relevant from knowlegable sources, names of the designers and dosages per serving.
Any more information is welcome. I didn't include all the Designer Names or dosage information. If you have more info about a compound, please post it. Hopefully, when someone is searching for one of these designers, they can simply bring up this page via “search” and find what they are looking for. It would have been helpful for me.
17b methoxy trienbolone – progestin
Posted by Big Cat - Methoxy-TRN or 17b-methoxy trenbolone information - Bodybuilding.com Forums
17b-methoxy-trenbolone has only 15-25% the RBA of test for the AR, but has 250-600 % the affinity of progesterone for the PR.
That means ALRI has managed to put out a product and sell it as a potent anabolic that was 5-7 times less anabolic than the parent compound, and 4-12 times as progestagenic. That is when the original molecule was already a potent progestin. More evidence to the weak anabolic and strong progestational nature of these products can be found in other compounds that are basically well know androgens with an added methyl group at 17b-OH, like methoxynandrolone, which had virtually no affinity for the AR.
This just for whom it may concern. The bottom line is that methoxy-TRN is 17b-methoxy-trenbolone and IS NOT 17b-methoxymethyloxy-trenbolone, and will not yield free trenbolone either. Its a very weak anabolic with an extremely strong progestagenic activity (up to 6 times that of progesterone itself).
Designer Names: (most have been discontinued - some of these companies list the amount at 30mg. *If you have a link or source for the reason, please pm me or post it in this thread.*)
- Trenadrol – 60 ct - 3mg and 30mg*
- Methoxy TRN (ALRI) 1.5mg
- Mega TRN
*Crazyfool405 asked Patrick Arnold about the Trenadrol 30mg product:
"I asked pat arnold, he said that when he tested it, it tested out to be Estra 4 / 19 Nor sooo i think im gunna go by that. which can be why its 30mg per cap. too bad only 60 cap bottles." (Edited for spelling/grammar)
Keep this in mind if buying the 30mg Trenadrol. It seems to be a different compound than the 3mg version.
Estra-4, 9-diene-3, 17-dione: Progestin - Dienolone Precursor
Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold at bb.com (edited by edwards for spelling and grammar)
The active metabolite in this case is the nandrolone derivative Estra-4,9-dien-17b-ol-3-one and according to Vida, it has an anabolic potency equal to methyltestosterone and an androgenic potency 0.1 times... This has been referred to as a trenbolone precursor, however this is inaccurate because trenbolone has an additional double bond in the structure and the body does not have the capacity to insert this double bond.
The following was an email sent to Chad Brooks at Epic Nutrition by Brian Rubach and posted at Iron Magazine Forums. The link to the thread follows the post.
Chad, (edited by edwards for grammar and spelling)
Let me explain the evolution of this product.
In February of this year [presumably 2003 – edwards note] I engaged my chemist is china to secure me the starting material from which they make trenbolone. They replied with the Esta-4,9-diene-3,17-dione ,molecule. This molecule is literally the starting material for trenbolone and is two quick easy steps away. The only reason trenbolone is made is to make this base molecule more bioactive, the double bond and the alcohol addition make this base molecule more effective.
Esta-4,9-diene-3,17-dione is still very bioactive in its self and will bind
to the same receptor cites as Trenbolone. The conversion is only a very minor, minor, minor, minor part of its activity. This product is very effective, we are skating the FDA for now, it is classified as a hormone just like trenbolone, it will be banned eventually, but it is not a "Prohormone." It does not convert to your bodie’s hormones. This is a prosteroid, your body will use this molecule just like it uses steroids.
Source - Warning: Finigenx is a lie! - [Forums]
- Tren 250 (Genetic Edge Technologies) –- 60 ct 25mg
- Testra-Flex –- 90ct 25mg (Testra Flex is advertised as containing 50mg per serving. However, this is false. It only has 25mg.)
- Dienedrone –– 60ct 50mg
- Orafinadrol-50 - (Culver Concepts) 30ct 50mg
- TrenaPLEX (Anabolic Formulations) 90ct 25mg
19-Norandrosta 4,9 diene-3,17 dione
Compound is the same as the Estra-4
- Tren Xtreme –
- Trenv-700 – (Black Dragon Nutrition) 60ct 35mg
- Trena (Fast Action Pharma) – 60ct 25mg
- Cyclo Tren –60ct 35 mg
- T Roid – 90ct 30mg
13-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-2,5(10)-diene-17-one - Progestin
Compound Information: (This is part of the generic writeup that every company used. I couldn’t find any expert opinions on this compound.)
What can users expect?
*Lean muscle mass
Progestins do not aromatize to estrogens and being a 5-alpha-reduced analog prevents conversion to DHT. It is important to remember that being 5-alpha-reduced also means it is related to DHT. Hmmm, 5-alpha reduced means good high quality hardening effects, too. Naturally the lack of estrogenic activity translates into low water retention and solid gains.
Designer Names: (Most have been discontinued)
- Max LMG (ALRI)
- Super Tren-MG (Black China Labs) – 60 ct, 25mg
- Revolt (kilo sports)
- X-Mass (Generic Labz)
- Tren 13-ethyl (XS Labs)
- 13 Ethyl (Anabolic Formulations) 25mg
I want to add some info about PCT to my write up about the Tren Designers. I have read about using Clomid instead of Nolva. I am wondering if there are any expert opinions on the subject. There is so much information available, I had a hard time sifting through the nonsense. Here's what I've come up with so far:
PCT Information for "Tren" Designers - AKA Progestins
During my research into these designers, I caught snippets of info regarding PCT, specifically, which SERM to use. Many supported using Clomid as opposed to Nolvadex for gyno prevention.
Tamoxifen is a SERM, one of its known activities is to upregulate the expression of the Progesterone receptor. Clomid is a SERM, not really suitable for gyno treatment but at least it does not upregulate the progesterone receptor. It is effective for PCT.
Source - Tren Xtreme PCT CONFUSION!(serious)lots of reps for serious answers [Archive] - Bodybuilding.com Forums
Here's more from PCT and Cycle Recomendations: Estrogen, Progesterone and Cortisol control - Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com / Anabolic Review Forums
One drawback to consider about Nolva is that it may cause progesterone receptors to become more sensitive. This means that while using progestins such as Deca or Tren, you may become more sensetive to progestin related gyno.
Treatment of Progestin Related Gyno
According to some members writing in this thread, (Kristofer68SS and bigpapa) Cabergoline, Letrozole and Bromo can be effective to control progestin induced gynocomastia after the cycle. They are not used as a SERM like clomid to prevent gyno, but rather to treat existing gyno. L-dopa and P-5-P as well. "P-5-P is the active enzyme form of vitamin B6 that does not require activation by the liver." Feel free to post more info on this and I'll add it here.
- 09-30-2008, 08:17 AM
- 09-30-2008, 09:25 AM
09-30-2008, 09:29 AM
09-30-2008, 10:45 AM
Fantastic list. I notice that the 13-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-2,5(10)-diene-17-one hits the Tren list just as 19-Norandrosta 4,9 diene-3,17 dione.
Ive used both on seperate cycles in the hope of gaining lean, dry, muscle and good solid strength gains. The 13-ethyl was promoted by the brand to deliver lean, dry gains and a massive rise in libido. I found my libido was killed a sudden death!!! And on Anabolic Minds there is a general consensus that the 13-ethyl compound generates soaking wet gains, and does in fact the opposite to your libido than the manufacturer's 'anti deca-****' claims.
Am I correct that results on these vary wildly, and is there anything you can take while on a cycle of 13-ethyl to counter the massive drop in libido?
09-30-2008, 12:29 PM
09-30-2008, 12:45 PM
As far as the drop in libido, if you want to stay legal, I'm pretty sure than Dermacrine by Primordial will help in that department.
I have no clue which is best. I'm about to run the Estra in a few weeks. I've read it is dry gains with recomp abilities. We shall see. I haven't used all these compounds. I only scoured the web for a few days to research them. I wanted to make sure that I got info from reliable sources such as Big Cat and Patrick Arnold.
09-30-2008, 12:55 PM
[QUOTE=edwards;1570779]I've heard that the gains from the 13-ethyl are wet whereas the others are much drier. It is interesting that these companies name three different compounds "tren." Bastards!
As far as the drop in libido, if you want to stay legal, I'm pretty sure than Dermacrine by Primordial will help in that department.
I have no clue which is best. I'm about to run the Estra in a few weeks. I've read it is dry gains with recomp abilities. We shall see. I haven't used all these compounds. I only scoured the web for a few days to research them. I wanted to make sure that I got info from reliable sources such as Big Cat and Patrick Arnold.[/QUOTE
What is Estra ??
Im leaning towards T-Roid
Great write up!! Very helpful.
09-30-2008, 12:56 PM
09-30-2008, 12:57 PM
09-30-2008, 01:13 PM
09-30-2008, 01:21 PM
I hear mixed views on this! Can anyone else say anything about the PCT for this? There are some that always say you need a SERM with every PCT and others who say OTC PCT is more than sufficient. Can anyone else chime in on their thoughts of an OTC PCT for tren?
....Reversitol has some good info backing it. They also did blood tests with a bold/mdrol cycle and everything turned out great.
09-30-2008, 01:26 PM
This is going to shut ya down big time(19-Nor 4,9 diene-3), ur gonna want to use a SERM
But, i understand if u want a second opinion. Good luck, happy cycling
09-30-2008, 01:30 PM
I've been advised that shutdown from 19-nor's can be quite severe, so without proper PCT you could be in trouble. I've also been told that despite it being a non-methyl, stress on the liver can be quite harsh, though with the proper support supps you should be fine. SERM Nolva
09-30-2008, 01:53 PM
I am on day 12 of a 19 norandrosta cycle. Up 8 lbs, muscles are much harder and fuller with increased vascularity. Libido, non existant, very suppressed. A Serm is a must for PCT.
09-30-2008, 03:09 PM
09-30-2008, 03:22 PM
09-30-2008, 03:28 PM
09-30-2008, 03:50 PM
09-30-2008, 03:51 PM
09-30-2008, 06:45 PM
09-30-2008, 10:33 PM
09-30-2008, 10:38 PM
in my opinion, thats what makes tren so bad - not that it doesn't work, but the sides vary so much on an individual basis that some people were able to do this without a PCT and have no problem, then their friend tried it, and cried fowl.
plan the PCT to be a normal one with clomid instead of nolva (learned this from russian). always play it safe, regardless of someone elses foolishness.
09-30-2008, 10:40 PM
so, which one does everyone think is the best? i've heard Trenadrol aka the mystery nobody knows what the **** it is compound is best.
09-30-2008, 10:46 PM
Bump for people who have tried one or the other by itself!!! I've wondered the same things about the tren variety!
09-30-2008, 10:49 PM
ACL is the only one i've tried. can't compare it to anything because it was my first and only cycle to date. i was very impressed though. 2 pounds per week, all LBM. so yummy.
09-30-2008, 10:56 PM
10-01-2008, 08:33 AM
10-01-2008, 08:40 AM
10-01-2008, 09:10 AM
10-01-2008, 09:24 AM
10-01-2008, 01:58 PM
10-01-2008, 03:53 PM
10-01-2008, 04:28 PM
10-01-2008, 06:38 PM
10-01-2008, 06:42 PM
I assume you mean, clomid would be the better choice for PCT and Nolva wont do ****e if you do get gyno. Honestly the nolva could make it worse or possibly even manifest it(gyno) in PCT.
Many will state not to use a SERM(as an anti-e) for progestin based steroids during a cycle, some will even say for PCT. Nolva in particular. I know I wouldnt use nolva at all for a progestin based cycle.
Also, caber/bromo/letro will work for progestin/progesterone based gyno(not all at once,lol).
L-dopa and P-5-P have shown to help control prolactin sides as well.
Let some guru's chime in here..........
I know i was sent an article by AR-R not to use nolva for an anti-e during progestin cycles. Thats enough for me.
Last edited by Kristofer68SS; 10-01-2008 at 07:39 PM.
10-01-2008, 08:50 PM
yes, caber would be used if you GOT gyno. clomid would be best for pct. ive learned this from very experienced users.
10-01-2008, 10:31 PM
10-01-2008, 10:51 PM
Clomid causes an elevation of follicle stimulating hormone and luteinizing hormone. As a result, natty test production is also increased. It is also has some anti-estrogen properties.
Nolvadex works by competitively binding to target estrogen sites like those at the breast. Due to the high levels of estrogen, the body starts to ramp up test production. This is why most people wait to introduce the AI until the 3rd week of PCT (or slowly ramp it up then ramp it down). AIs slow/hault the production estrogen. It is the high estrogen levels that are allowing your natty test to recover. It is a feedback mechanism. You use the nolva to block the effects of the high estrogen levels as your natty test increases. Then you introduce the AI once test levels start to increase to decrease the amount of estrogen once natty test production has been stimulated.
Often in recoving from cycles people will use human chronic gonadotropin (HCG) since an immediate boost in testosterone is often needed. Followed by Clomid and or Nolva.
I am in no way an expert. This is just how I understand what I have learned through research.
10-01-2008, 10:54 PM
Ohh yeah currently on day 10 of a Havoc and CycloTren stack. Up 8-9lbs. Strength is great, endurance is awesome. Eating slightly above maintaince cals. Great combo.
Similar Forum Threads
- By Millennium 1 in forum Millennium Sport TechnologiesReplies: 43Last Post: 04-11-2011, 12:17 AM
- By alih92 in forum SupplementsReplies: 1Last Post: 07-03-2010, 04:12 PM
- By hard iron in forum AnabolicsReplies: 53Last Post: 11-04-2009, 12:19 AM
- By NJeagle69 in forum AnabolicsReplies: 8Last Post: 04-13-2008, 10:04 PM
- By TripDog in forum Supplement LogsReplies: 144Last Post: 01-01-2008, 02:11 PM