Cycle W/ No Strength Gains??

[Blatalian]

What's up bro's.... I have yet another issuse with my first cycle. You all are the most Knowledgeable folks I know on the subject ... so hopefully you can give me some insight.

My Cycle thus far has gone as such:

On Oct. 20th - my first dose of Test Enanthate @ 500mgs.

On Oct. 24th - my second dose of TE @ 500mgs w/200mgs of Primo.

On Oct. 29th - 250mgs of TE w/50mgs of winny (injected)

On Oct. 31st - 500mgs of TE, 200mgs Primo, and 50mgs Primo.

Nov. 2 - Winny Orally and 2cc's of Fina (Front-Load Phase...Dosage estimated at 150 mgs.)

Nov. 3 - 2cc's Fina (Front-Load Phase...Dosage estimated at 150 mgs.)

Nov. 4 - Winny (Orally), 2cc's Fina (Front-Load Phase...Dosage estimated at 150 mgs.)

In between the preceeding days i've been taking Letrozole (From Liquid Research) EOD @ 1/2 ml (estimated dosage of 1.25mg)


Well... Here's the problem... I haven't gained any strength nor size worth mentioning. (I must admit though, that my pumps during work-outs are phenominal!!) I have been consuming plenty of calories and my supplements are put together pretty good. Any suggestions?

I already know that I should increase my Primo dosage, but beside that are there any changes that should be made to my cycle? Thanks for the advice in advance bros!

 

[ironviking]

What is your training like?
How many reps, what exercises and how many days per week are you working out?
Cant comment too much on the gear but it really doesnt seem to be the problem.

 

[Matthew D]

Give it some time.. it is not super juice.. it will take about 2 weeks or more for the fina to kick in and 4 weeks or so for the test enth to kick..

 

[Blatalian]

My training schedule is like this:

Day 1: Chest & (maybe calfs)

Day 2: Back & (maybe hams)

Day 3: May Rest (If I feel I need it.) or Shoulders & Traps

Day 4: Biceps & (maybe quads)

Day 5: Triceps & (any other small muscle group I haven't gotten to)

Day 6: Intensive Leg Work out (eg: 5-8 sets of leg presses, heavy weight or squats or hack squats.)

May rest between days after two days in a row... but not usually.

Note: I do Biceps and Triceps on two different days because when I was doing them both together I always Pussed out on the second muscle group. This way I get to work each grop out intensively.

Thanks for any info you can give bro!

 

[Blatalian]

Thanks Matt D... I figured that I may need more time to let the juice kick in... But I also figured I would see some results by now... Except for a quicker temper, that is...

But the way..... Is there a such thing a Super-Juice???? LOL

 

[size]

I would drop the letro and only use it as needed or later into the cycle. Alot of the early strength gains from a cycle come from water retention. Some water retention and estrogen is a good thing. Too much is the problem, so you have to walk a fine line. Gains are not immediate. WIth test it is a building process that takes time. However, by now you should be starting to see some gains.

You need to be taking the winstrol everyday.


If you could break it down week by week ratehrs than days it would be easier to look at. For example:
Weeks 1: Xmg test, Xmg primo etc.

 

[Blatalian]

Size:

I agree with your recommendation of breaking the dosages down week by week and that is my intention...
Since the cycle has begun I've been improvising... but things will start to become more consistent.

The letro should be stopped until later, huh?? Thats a good idea, I'll consider it. I want this cycle to be more of a lean mass gainer, I'm not sure if bloating is something I want.

but that would explain the lack of strength and weight gains... Thanks Bro!

 

[size]

I want this cycle to be more of a lean mass gainer, I'm not sure if bloating is something I want.

I ONLY do lean mass cycles. I do not think you will bloat too much honestly, but if you do you can always just start the letro once you feel uncomfortabel.

 

[Blatalian]

I ONLY do lean mass cycles. I do not think you will bloat too much honestly, but if you do you can always just start the letro once you feel uncomfortabel.

Understood... I'll deffintely give it a try.

About the winny... It should be used every day to keep steady levels right... The problem is that I'm working on a limited supply... therefore I'm trying to make it stretch..
I know it's a bad practise but it seems to be my best option.

 

[size]

I would just not use the winny unless you can use it orally ed or inject eod.

 

[ironviking]

I would cut the workout down some maybe to like 4 days per week. It seems with that schedule some bodyparts are getting hit three times a week, even on juice that is too much. Also, try to be more consistent with your workouts. I would say go three days a week with a split that doesnt overlap any bodyparts.

Good Luck Bro

 

[size]

I would cut the workout down some maybe to like 4 days per week. It seems with that schedule some bodyparts are getting hit three times a week, even on juice that is too much. Also, try to be more consistent with your workouts. I would say go three days a week with a split that doesnt overlap any bodyparts.

Good Luck Bro

Excellent suggestion. I would say no more than 5 days of lifting and at least 2 days of rest a week.

 

[ManBeast]

I refuse to lift more than 5 days out of the week, my CNS can't recover properly otherwise.

ManBeast

 

[Blatalian]

It seems with that schedule some bodyparts are getting hit three times a week, even on juice that is too much.

I'm confused about how you came to this conclusion...
Are you counting compound exercises, for example rows, as back and biceps instead of only back?

If so I think I understand and the only way to solve that problem would be for me to cut out my Biceps and Triceps routine.

 

[wikked1]

DAMN that's a ton o' gear for a first cylce bro. You're a walking chemical experiment and you ain't growing? JESUS why SO many compounds on your first cycle?

 

[ironviking]

I'm confused about how you came to this conclusion...
Are you counting compound exercises, for example rows, as back and biceps instead of only back?

If so I think I understand and the only way to solve that problem would be for me to cut out my Biceps and Triceps routine.

Yes, I am counting the compound exercises. Just add the bis to your back day and the tris to your chest day, there is no reason to break those up. You might have to cut down on the exercises that you do but in this scenario cutting down is not a bad thing.

It just seems to me that being on that much gear and no gains yet either your diet or your routine is causing you to overtrain. You said youre getting in plenty of calories so I think the routine is a bit much.

Some of the best gains that I've seen people make is on a simple 3 day split
WKT 1:Back and Bis
WKT 2:Chest Shoulder Tris
WKT 3:Legs

Hope this helps
Good Luck

 

[Blatalian]

wikked1:

DAMN that's a ton o' gear for a first cylce bro. You're a walking chemical experiment and you ain't growing? JESUS why SO many compounds on your first cycle?

The reason why is because I've heard that the best gains that you will ever get will be from your FIRST cycle.
I'm testing that theory.

Initially my intentions were not to clycle so many different chemicals.. but what can I say.....

I know you all have heard this line a thousand times... but although this is my first cycle.. I am not planning on taking many more cycles.
Perhaps, 2 or 3 at the most.

My goal is to get to 250 lbs.... then O' Natural from there on. (I'm 215 Now.)

 

[wikked1]

I'd give it some more time anyway. You sure have a lot of goods in your system. Personally I would have saved the Winny till the end to lean out and harden up a bit but to each his own. Are you SURE you're getting enough food? Eating should be a full time job at this point make sure you're getting quality calories and YES count them.....and your Macros too it's worth the effort! Best of luck with this cycle and getting to 250 bro! Keep me posted I'm curious about when your strength and size explode on this!

 

[Blatalian]

Damn it!
I'm still stuck at 220... Still no freakin gains! (Strength neither)
But Whoa... I am looking rather Swole thest days
At least that's what everyone's telling me..

I figured that the only possible area that I may be lacking in is calorie intake.. So I just ordered 3 100ml bottles of Vitamin B12 (Vet Grade).
Hopefully this will help me to start kickin some ass in the Kitchen..

 

[Blatalian]

Hey.. what's up bro's.

Quick Question....
I'm considering staying on cycle until I'm outta my supply...
This may end up being about 20 weeks.

I know this may sound really ignorant... but honestly, what's the worst that can happen?

 

[size]

What would it look like the remainder of the way?

 

[ManBeast]

And you better have god's own PCT at your disposal when you come off....

ManBeast

 

[size]

And you better have god's own PCT at your disposal when you come off....

Why?


I have done cycles of 8 weeks up to 16 weeks (i believe?) and recovery is no different for me. HPTA suppression is suppression no matter how you look at it.

 

[Blatalian]

Thanks for the response guys.

The rest of my cycle would look like the following:

(It's basically the same w/o the primo)

- 75 mgs. Fina per day
- 500 mgs of TE per week

As far as post cycle, I'm stocked. Except for the HCG that's coming in the future.

 

[ManBeast]

Size: I just feel that having been shutdown for so long, it might take a bit extra oomph to get things going in a timely manner.

ManBeast

 

[size]

I would not use tren for that long. I have no evidence but I have concern's that long term tren usage is unhealthy. The test would not be a problem though.

 

[wikked1]

Hey.. what's up bro's.

Quick Question....
I'm considering staying on cycle until I'm outta my supply...
This may end up being about 20 weeks.

SO I guess this means that everything is now working well?
This is just my own opinion I would not stay on a first cycle that long. But that's just my opinion.....I'd do (2) ten week cycles if I were you.
Grow ,recover,Grow,recover.

 

[Blatalian]

SO I guess this means that everything is now working well?
This is just my own opinion I would not stay on a first cycle that long. But that's just my opinion.....I'd do (2) ten week cycles if I were you.
Grow ,recover,Grow,recover.

Actually, quite to the contrary. I haven't noticed any strength or mass gains yet.. just more muscularity.

I was considering staying on cycle because I wasn't noticing any testicular atrophy and that was my major reasoning for cycleing on and off.

Now I am starting to reconsider.

 

[size]

I wasn't noticing any testicular atrophy and that was my major reasoning for cycleing on and off.

Now I am starting to reconsider.

Testicular atrophy is not a good indictator of HPTA suppression b/c some people get minimal shrinkage yet suppression is present.

 

[Blatalian]

What are the other indicators?