first cycle

[playmaker08]

Let me first start out by saying I am new to all of this, but I have been doing research for close to a year now, and have considered many different cycles. I am currently on a clean bulk and will be up about 20 pounds by the new year. I will take 6 weeks to hold onto the mass until the new year, and then I would like to start cutting. This is when I would like to administer a cycle. I just want a mild drug to help me hold onto mass is all while I cut, I do not plan on getting huge during this time. I was thinking 50mg ED of stanozol oral but I have heard it is not good to take alone. I considered throwing some test enan or tren enan in with it to help out. What do you guys think? Is there any legal alternative I could stack with the winny? Will I need PCT? Any help is greatly appreciated, I am here to learn! Thanks guys!!

 

[lennoxchi]

winny by itself has not been a recommendation around here, it's deemed "a waste of winny". if you've been researching for a year now, you should be able to pick out a proper cycle by now. have you any PH/PS experience before? most people would start with legal compounds before jumping into gear.

 

[nosnmiveins]

a low dose of test-e for 10-12 weeks seems perfect for ur goal....along with a strict cutting diet and training routine of course

 

[playmaker08]

Yeah I have done numerous cycles of PH's and gotten pretty good results. I actually was really considering test enan but I heard the injections are painful so I wanted to stick to some kind of oral instead. I should just stick with one compound for my first cycle though right?

 

[nosnmiveins]

yes stick with one compound. injectable is much safer than orals.

test-e pain depends on where u got ur gear and what BA/BB content it has. i rarely ever hear of test-e causing injection pain.

i used human grade and it was 100% pain free

 

[playmaker08]

so test E is the one you would recommend then? What all will I need for PCT then? Any ancillaries I can run beside it to keep estrogen levels low?

 

[nosnmiveins]

so test E is the one you would recommend then? What all will I need for PCT then? Any ancillaries I can run beside it to keep estrogen levels low?

yes, test-e is the best for beginners. u wont need an AI (arimidex or aromasin) with 250mg/week. PCT should be Nolva 40/20/20/20 or Clomid 100/50/50/50

 

[playmaker08]

yes, test-e is the best for beginners. u wont need an AI (arimidex or aromasin) with 250mg/week. PCT should be Nolva 40/20/20/20 or Clomid 100/50/50/50

Is HCG needed? I was thinking I would run 11-oxo or something like that as an ancillary, all it is is a cortisol blocker. What do you think?

 

[buster12]

drop the winny. If you want great results, then you can't do a prohormone because then youll take superdrol or phera and those are actually way worse for liver care than running test e. If you have access to injectables, and your near 25 , take them. A 10 to 12 weeker of test e is good. remember not to start pct till 2 weeks after with test e. For some reason i see more and more idiots doing there first test cycle and think the pct protocol is all the same. Any way just forget winny and do your joints a favor.

 

[playmaker08]

alright sounds good, this cycle is nice and cheap too! So basically all I am going to need is 10 weeks worth of test-e- and some clomid or tamoxifen correct?

 

[nosnmiveins]

Is HCG needed? I was thinking I would run 11-oxo or something like that as an ancillary, all it is is a cortisol blocker. What do you think?

not needed, but personal preference. 11-oxo will do nothing on cycle

 

[nosnmiveins]

alright sounds good, this cycle is nice and cheap too! So basically all I am going to need is 10 weeks worth of test-e- and some clomid or tamoxifen correct?

yes. make sure u do the math right and get enough nolva or clomid

 

[playmaker08]

k cool. Thanks a lot guys I really appreciate it, I will be around reading and stuff. cya around.

 

[playmaker08]

Question. Could I throw in some tren enan or some injectable winny half way into the cycle and run it for the duration? I figured I would run the test enan for 4 weeks and see if there were sides, and then I would add the other and if I got bad sides from it I would know which compound it was and could discontinue right away. What do you guys think?

 

[nosnmiveins]

Question. Could I throw in some tren enan or some injectable winny half way into the cycle and run it for the duration? I figured I would run the test enan for 4 weeks and see if there were sides, and then I would add the other and if I got bad sides from it I would know which compound it was and could discontinue right away. What do you guys think?

no more than test/dbol for a first cycle....especially not tren.

test e needs to be run 10-12 weeks

 

[SoCo4Fun]

Tren is a very harsh compound that will shut you down BAD. Stick with test for your first cycle. I actual believe test prop makes a better first cycle as it is easy to stop if you start seeing bad sides.

 

[playmaker08]

yeah I had heard tren wasn't a good choice for first time use, won't test make you hold lots of water weight though? I just didn't want to use test prop because I didn't want to be pinning myself EOD. Is there anything mild like winny or var that I could stack later in the cycle?

 

[nosnmiveins]

yeah I had heard tren wasn't a good choice for first time use, won't test make you hold lots of water weight though? I just didn't want to use test prop because I didn't want to be pinning myself EOD. Is there anything mild like winny or var that I could stack later in the cycle?

the only thing worthwhile stacking with test for a first cycle would be Dbol.

var isnt worth the $$$$ and winny wont benefit u unless ur 12%bf or lower

if ur worried about bloat (which affects everyone differently) then run an AI on cycle

 

[playmaker08]

I'm 10% body fat... and I would like to get down to 5 or 6 when all is said and done.

 

[nosnmiveins]

I'm 10% body fat... and I would like to get down to 5 or 6 when all is said and done.

with that said, i dont think ud run into any issues if u introduced winny the last 6 weeks. joints might not like it though.

just keep it to 2 compounds for ur first cycle

 

[SoCo4Fun]

the only thing worthwhile stacking with test for a first cycle would be Dbol.

var isnt worth the $$$$ and winny wont benefit u unless ur 12%bf or lower

if ur worried about bloat (which affects everyone differently) then run an AI on cycle

Have you ran winny before?

You will see plenty of benefit from winny even if you are above 12%. I was about 14% when I ran winny and it gave some great strength gains and made it virtually impossible for me to put on fat. I was running it with test prop.

 

[playmaker08]

Did you use the prop/winny to burn fat? Did you use injectables or orals?

 

[nosnmiveins]

Have you ran winny before?

You will see plenty of benefit from winny even if you are above 12%. I was about 14% when I ran winny and it gave some great strength gains and made it virtually impossible for me to put on fat. I was running it with test prop.

ur right, my % was wrong, i was just trying to prove a point that winny doesnt get u cut and ppl with high bf% shouldnt use it.

diet is key. winny will harden u, not get u "ripped"

 

[SoCo4Fun]

Injectable. I used a prop winny cycle to cut up...VERY effective stack IMO.

 

[SoCo4Fun]

My point is that I personally have found test prop/winny to be a VERY effective cutting cycle...and from my experience I think it would be a good cutting cycle for someone at a higher bf %...the question is how high of a percentage should people be cycling at all?

 

[playmaker08]

So if I did 6 weeks of test enan by itself and then added winny in for 6 weeks winny would help me drop all that water weight I would be holding correct?

 

[SoCo4Fun]

winny isn't going to drop the water weight...you need to use an AI for that...a-dex, letro, etc....

Test E weeks 1 - 12
Winny weeks 10 - 15

would be pretty badass...

 

[playmaker08]

I've read numerous places that winny will help drop water weight but does it not matter if there is all this aromatizing estrogen? If I'm only pinny 250mg test e each week will there really be that much converted estrogen to begin with?