High dose androgens and red blood cell production

[Nightwanderer]

I once saw a pic pisted on here of some pro with astounding vascularity and someone had commented that to achieve that degree took an unusally heavy amount of androgens. It brought these thoughts to my mind the other day:

1. all that vasodilation and extra red blood cell would only be useful if you got every molecule of oxygen and nutrition you could use into your bloodstream at any given moment, and that that much blood was necessary to bring the fuel to your muscles in the first place.

2. That said, do you suppose a person's maximum oxygen intake per breath might not meet the volume needed to saturate all the extra cells?

I'm just wondering if there's a point where basically all any more exogenous androgens would do no actual good for performance
despite any further increase in vascularity, and if so, gather people's opinions on what that general (height/weight factors aside) range might be.

 

[Nightwanderer]

no opinions, study info, speculation, anything?

 

[Nightwanderer]

I summon this thread to life! (probably just to die again)

 

[crazyfool405]

i can relay the question to dave palumbo if youd like.

 

[Ziquor]

Certain AAS like D-bol actually lowers red blood cell count. But another thing that can be super bad about this too is increased red blood cells thickens your blood - greatly increasing risk for heart attack and/or stroke. My next cycle I'm dosing the new Bayer heart advantage aspirin each day ON cycle.

 

[Trauma1]

Certain AAS like D-bol actually lowers red blood cell count. But another thing that can be super bad about this too is increased red blood cells thickens your blood - greatly increasing risk for heart attack and/or stroke. My next cycle I'm dosing the new Bayer heart advantage aspirin each day ON cycle.

Bingo!

Many of the issues that can present themselves from an elevated hematocrit (increased red blood cell concentration) include Coronary Issues, Ischemic (thrombus induced) Stroke, Deep Vein Thrombosis, and Pulmonary Embolism.

I see your point with an aspirin 81mg/day Z. Aspirin's pharmacologic therapy resides in it's primary mechanism of action involving attenuated effects of decreased platelet aggregation on already evident arterial plaque formation.

Certainly an increased red blood cell count would add much un-needed insult to injury in genetically predisposed people. Blood work is very important in keeping tract of your primary health status. I SINCERELY encourage those over the age of 30 getting in for a yearly physical with a blood work component at minimum.

 

[crazyfool405]

what about added vitamin E and fishoil to help thin the blood?

and how would this aspirin effect you liver while on orals?

 

[Trauma1]

what about added vitamin E and fishoil to help thin the blood?

and how would this aspirin effect you liver while on orals?

Do a search on the COX-1/COX-2 inhibition of enzymes.

Aspirin at 81mg/day is purely a preventative measure of heart disease/stroke professed by the american heart association. Plenty of studies to back it up. Feel free to research it yourself.

 

[Ziquor]

Bingo!

Many of the issues that can present themselves from an elevated hematocrit (increased red blood cell concentration) include Coronary Issues, Ischemic (thrombus induced) Stroke, Deep Vein Thrombosis, and Pulmonary Embolism.

I see your point with an aspirin 81mg/day Z. Aspirin's pharmacologic therapy resides in it's primary mechanism of action involving attenuated effects of decreased platelet aggregation on already evident arterial plaque formation.

Certainly an increased red blood cell count would add much un-needed insult to injury in genetically predisposed people. Blood work is very important in keeping tract of your primary health status. I SINCERELY encourage those over the age of 30 getting in for a yearly physical with a blood work component at minimum.

Yeah I think these things are good 'cycle buddies' so to speak. They're coated plus each 81mg tab has 400mg of phytosterols in it so taking 2 a day may help with the blood and also may help keep cholesterol in check a bit more thanks to the phytosterols

 

[Ziquor]

what about added vitamin E and fishoil to help thin the blood?

and how would this aspirin effect you liver while on orals?

81mg Coated Aspirin would likely have no sides whatsoever unless someone has an ulcer. Also Aspirin is not hepatoxic like Acetaminophen.

 

[Trauma1]

81mg Coated Aspirin would likely have no sides whatsoever unless someone has an ulcer. Also Aspirin is not hepatoxic like Acetaminophen.

Even in the event of peptic ulcer disease, the benefits of that 81mg/day asa can largely outweigh the minimal risks involved with that dosing.

Agreed, the hepatic metabolism is of minimal to no significance at all with an ASA 81mg dosing. Acetaminophen has its place in medicine for cerain (an awesome anti-pyretic), but unfortunately too many ignorant people abuse that of which they don't understand.

 

[Ziquor]

Even in the event of peptic ulcer disease, the benefits of that 81mg/day asa can largely outweigh the minimal risks involved with that dosing.

Agreed, the hepatic metabolism is of minimal to no significance at all with an ASA 81mg dosing. Acetaminophen has its place in medicine for cerain (an awesome anti-pyretic), but unfortunately too many ignorant people abuse that of which they don't understand.

Like me 8 years ago when I was taking 30 vicodin per day. At least I had enough sense to go with the Norco being only 325mg of acetaminophen but this still equated to nearly 10,000mg per day of acetaminophen. Good thing I switched over to oxycontins and ended up with no permanent liver damage (miracle) :fool2:

 

[Trauma1]

Like me 8 years ago when I was taking 30 vicodin per day. At least I had enough sense to go with the Norco being only 325mg of acetaminophen but this still equated to nearly 10,000mg per day of acetaminophen. Good thing I switched over to oxycontins and ended up with no permanent liver damage (miracle) :fool2:

Your liver is a MACHINE!

Congrats for sure on kicking that bad habit brother. I see way too many situations like that which end up with a bad prognosis.