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    Originally posted by 1Fast400



    Bill isn't a bad guy, just WAY to emotional
    I like Bill....he's honest and he's emotional because he gives a **** about his customers, maybe he needs to teach a seminar to the other "guy" on giving a ****.

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    Originally posted by YellowJacket


    I like Bill....he's honest and he's emotional because he gives a **** about his customers, maybe he needs to teach a seminar to the other "guy" on giving a ****.
    I like Bill too. He seems to be much more the peoples man than the other guy does for sure.
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    Well is everyone done here? Did we make a decision on who's balls were bigger?

    Im actually proud of you *******s, this was a good debate with no name calling, now if we can hide it from K we'll be alright
    •   
       

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    Well done indeed!
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    I like Bill....he's honest and he's emotional because he gives a **** about his customers, maybe he needs to teach a seminar to the other "guy" on giving a ****.

    That is why he is spending 0 bucks on the USFA, because he cares about his products so much that he doesn't want to protect them.


    I've dealt with Bill L on the phone a few times. He has got to be the most out of control person I've ever seen. During one call, in which I was put on speaker phone, other workers at the place had to tell him to be quiet because he was getting out of control.
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    PA has done more for consumers in this industry than ANYONE else period (when it comes to PH). I'm not talking about inventing things either. I talking about behind the scenes with government stuff. The difference is, if Bill did it, he would want a congressional medal of honor.
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    Originally posted by 1Fast400



    That is why he is spending 0 bucks on the USFA, because he cares about his products so much that he doesn't want to protect them.
    I'm pretty sure he said he would match whatever Par is giving.
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    Originally posted by Dio


    I'm pretty sure he said he would match whatever Par is giving.
    Yes, good point and not to mention we cant trash Bill since he's not here to defend himself.
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    I'm pretty sure he said he would match whatever Par is giving.

    Yes leave it to bill to compare his company (which advertises in almost every major mag and Europa mag) to one that has had all of its androgen based products pulled and has done no mainstream advertising.


    Donations should not be correlated to what others do. You give what you can and go from there. If you all only knew what companies were actually giving...you'd **** a brick (not meaning $$ but just WHO is giving)
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    Originally posted by 1Fast400



    Yes leave it to bill to compare his company (which advertises in almost every major mag and Europa mag) to one that has had all of its androgen based products pulled and has done no mainstream advertising.


    Donations should not be correlated to what others do. You give what you can and go from there. If you all only knew what companies were actually giving...you'd **** a brick (not meaning $$ but just WHO is giving)
    I have an idea who is involved, although certainly not to the extent you do.

    I've already made some public comments to Bill about his attitude towards giving; they're in the same thread yours are in. If he's giving then he's giving; I may wish he was more involved but it's his company. BTW, Derek and his crew are using the same weak rhetoric about the bill.
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    BTW, Derek and his crew are using the same weak rhetoric about the bill.

    Derek has a pretty tarnished image, not sure if having him on board would "help" that much. Syntrax and Molecular have a connection no doubt (molecular had to hold on releasing formestane due to syntrax not being ready yet, which is when PA beat him to the punch).

    To this point, Bill has donated nothing.
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    Originally posted by 1Fast400


    Syntrax and Molecular have a connection no doubt (molecular had to hold on releasing formestane due to syntrax not being ready yet, which is when PA beat him to the punch).
    They've been pretty open about this relationship. They're also working an improved oral ph delivery method that may never see the light of day.

    If Bill hasn't ponied up, someone should bug him about.
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    If Bill hasn't ponied up, someone should bug him about.




    Not me, I've been fighting with Bill forever. If I say something he'll start dropping F bombs all over the place.
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    Originally posted by windwords7
    Real world evidence has never seemed to matter to these guys Curt.
    If subject A uses Avant-X for 4 weeks and gains 15 pounds at a cost of 60 dollars and subject B ueses BDC-X for 4 weeks and gains 15 pounds at a cost of 40 dollars, who got the best results for the money? END OF SUBJECT
    EXACTLY!  yeah ! WTF?  Sheeze, for a while I thought I have gone stupid or something. B/c I have been saying the same thing for ages, yet people still telling me the same **** over and over again!

     
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    Originally posted by K (Phoenix)


    EXACTLY!  yeah ! WTF?  Sheeze, for a while I thought I have gone stupid or something. B/c I have been saying the same thing for ages, yet people still telling me the same **** over and over again!

     
    I have been borrowing your quote quite a bit lately K ..

    "Sometimes common knowledge will suffice over scientific proof" And in this situation as Jake layed out nicely, I think common sense applies in this situation. Everyone has an idea of whats in ONE+, we all know for sure whats in 1-T Pro, I dont think I would need to spell it all out at the request of someone. Par and the Avant boys want proof as to why BDC claims his is better, thats fine.... but answer me this after reading this quote by Par at Anabolex:

    He asked where to find ONE+, not where do I find an inferior knockoff.


    So what gives him the right to say this in reference to BDC's Products? Just because he has scientific documents he can say this whether its true or not? Or is it because he's Par Almighty that he can say this? Neither. Because he knows better.
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    The topic was never which is more cost-effective. Par himself has admitted that homebrews are better in this regard. This is obvious to everyone.

    The issues are, from Par's perspective (1) Evidence for claims and (2) Absorption percentage. NOT cost-effectiveness. Par believes he is better on both, and again, this is up for debate.

    And as for this:

    He asked where to find ONE+, not where do I find an inferior knockoff.
    Did it ever occur to you guys that maybe Par has a dry sense of humor, and enjoys the reaction he gets when he jokes with someone on this subject?
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    Originally posted by SirSavageX


    Did it ever occur to you guys that maybe Par has a dry sense of humor, and enjoys the reaction he gets when he jokes with someone on this subject?
    Gotcha on the 1st part as for his sense of humor.....well anyone with a sense of humor that pathetic needs flamed and thats exactly what he go. Its funny how he makes these claims as a "joke" I guess then when we do all hell breaks loose, very nice.
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    Originally posted by 1Fast400



    That is why he is spending 0 bucks on the USFA, because he cares about his products so much that he doesn't want to protect them.

    I recall Bill wanting to visit Washington (using his own funds) to help. Does his time have no value?
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    I recall Bill wanting to visit Washington (using his own funds) to help. Does his time have no value?

    Bill gets out of control everytime someone confronts him. Just look at any post that was a debate and you can see that. Also, this is the whole point of USFA. They hire lobbiest and put a panel of experts (meaning people who don't own businesses that sell this stuff) that talk about why we should keep such things legal. Bill wanted to redirect the question. He claims his company has no money (I say this as I look at his full page ad in muscular development). So if this were truely the case, he needs to stay at home in Florida and work.
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    I don't want to put myself in the position of defending Bill, but he may get that ad space as a result of the articles he writes for them. It's a pretty common exchange.

    Either way he should still pony up.
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    Originally posted by SirSavageX
    I question BDC. I question Par. I question Pat Arnold and Bill Llewellyn.

    I question everybody when they say something controversial. Why? Because I want to see them explain themselves, and provide evidence for what they're saying. Otherwise, how can you truly believe what they're saying? Would you simply go on faith? I should hope not.
    Savage, good point. I should have clarified a little better. I haven't openly questioned Chemo (on any of the boards) regarding his knowledge of *skin lotion* technology. Nor have I with Par. The reason is I have read every one of the threads on bb.com regarding homebrew, I have read nearly every one of Par's posts, as well as all of Par's articles.

    Those two threads that Curt linked you to, regarding homebrew; yep, I've read those too, including (most of) the articles and studies that are linked to in those two threads.

    So, for my purposes, they both have knowledge on the subject. They have both already shown that to me, so I don't see the need to question either of them further. Now, if one of them were to say (for example) that they have a new ingredient that will double the absorption rate of their product, without having any scientific evidence to explain it, then I would see a need to question something like that.
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    Bill is the nicest gentleman among all.

    What debate? We all know how Pat, Par dante and 1fast debate when they are cornered or coming short on reason.  Give me a break!
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    Bill is the nicest gentleman among all.

    I assume you've had encounters with him personally that make you come to this opinion?

    What debate? We all know how Pat, Par dante and 1fast debate when they are cornered or coming short on reason.

    Riiiiiiiggghhhtt.
  

  
 

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