SSX :About writing up an exhaustive article:

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    The edited by and date and time of has been set so people will know when a post has been edited even if it was done by a mod. So if someone modifies it people will know... Hope this helps a litle bit.. Other than that lets just move on on this subject. Talk to ya... 

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    Originally posted by curt2go
    The edited by and date and time of has been set so people will know when a post has been edited even if it was done by a mod. So if someone modifies it people will know... Hope this helps a litle bit.. Other than that lets just move on on this subject. Talk to ya... 
    I always wondered why that was not on here!
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    Originally posted by curt2go
    Other than that lets just move on on this subject.
    Done.
    •   
       

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    Cool... Talk to ya.....
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    Originally posted by SirSavageX

    I probably over-reacted a little on Blacksmith, but I cannot stand personal insults hurled at me
    Sorry Bro,
    I apologize for calling you a dumbass.

    Now have a Happy New Year.
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    Same to you.

    And my apologies for being condescending in my response.
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    See, don't I know you guys or what? 

    I am making garbage post to boost my post count
    Last edited by K (Phoenix); 12-31-2002 at 05:22 PM.
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    Don't worry K we will adjust your karma to reflect... hehehe Talk to ya..
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    Originally posted by John Benz

    SirSavage, I like you, even though we disagree on a few things. My point on the RIP thread was Par's lack of ANY proof to back up his claims. He should not demand proof from BDC, while stating that his opinion should be considered proof enough, as he is PAR DEUS!!!
    He had an article comparing different 1-Test products, and how he arrived at his estimation, but for the life of me, I cannot find it now. Probably had to remove it due to recent actions by the FDA.
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    Originally posted by SirSavageX
    He had an article comparing different 1-Test products, and how he arrived at his estimation, but for the life of me, I cannot find it now.
    Savage, Par's article is in the Pimpology section of M&M #7. Here is a direct link: ONE & ONE+ vs The Competition

    As you said above, Par explains how he arrived at the 30-40% estimate by going thru each ingredient in the carrier, and theorizing how it affects the absorption. Note: that the actual article starts about 1/4 of the way down the page that I linked to.
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    Originally posted by ShadowJack


    Savage, Par's article is in the Pimpology section of M&M #7. Here is a direct link: ONE & ONE+ vs The Competition

    As you said above, Par explains how he arrived at the 30-40% estimate by going thru each ingredient in the carrier, and theorizing how it affects the absorption. Note: that the actual article starts about 1/4 of the way down the page that I linked to.
    This (in red) is my point. Chemo is easily as educated in matters of chemistry as Par Deus. Why is his word on the subject any less credible?
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    I would love to know Par's actual level of education and formal training in Chemistry. We KNOW BDC's, soon to be Dr. BDC!
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    Originally posted by windwords7
    I would love to know Par's actual level of education and formal training in Chemistry. We KNOW BDC's, soon to be Dr. BDC!
    Par has posted this before. He is not hiding anything. Link to the thread on his board: The academic side of bodybuilding
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    Originally posted by John Benz
    This (in red) is my point.
    Perhaps I used the wrong word with theorizing. Here is a quote by Par made in the above-mentioned article:

    Today, I am going to look more closely at the data, from a quantitative perspective, and analyse that, along with the afore mentioned feedback comparisons, in order to hopefully justify a more brash estimate.
    So, he is not only thoroughly explaining the science behind his reasoning, but he is also using the user feedback to try to justify his position.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally posted by John Benz
    Chemo is easily as educated in matters of chemistry as Par Deus. Why is his word on the subject any less credible?
    Personally, I don't want to get into this part of it, as I have never questioned Chemo's knowledge.
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    The point is homebrew works the same as par's stuff. We have people getting the exact same results so who cares on the exact absorption... We can waste our time "theorizing " all day but who cares. We have better things to do.. Like spraying it on. hehehehe.. But like i said who cares. No one is EVER going to get it tested it costs too much money..  But this is all just my opinion.. Talk to ya...
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    No one is EVER going to get it tested it costs too much money

    Didn't it get analized like 3 times?
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    Originally posted by curt2go
    The point is homebrew works the same as par's stuff. We have people getting the exact same results so who cares on the exact absorption... We can waste our time "theorizing " all day but who cares. We have better things to do.. Like spraying it on. hehehehe.. But like i said who cares. No one is EVER going to get it tested it costs too much money..  But this is all just my opinion.. Talk to ya...
    Real world evidence has never seemed to matter to these guys Curt.

    If subject A uses Avant-X for 4 weeks and gains 15 pounds at a cost of 60 dollars and subject B ueses BDC-X for 4 weeks and gains 15 pounds at a cost of 40 dollars, who got the best results for the money? END OF SUBJECT
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    Jack, thanks for the link above. For some reason, I was thinking it was a separate article.

    Originally posted by ShadowJack
    Personally, I don't want to get into this part of it, as I have never questioned Chemo's knowledge.
    I'm glad you worded your response in this way, because I can respond in a way that proves a good point. And, this is a general point, and not directly aimed at you.

    I question BDC. I question Par. I question Pat Arnold and Bill Llewellyn.

    I question everybody when they say something controversial. Why? Because I want to see them explain themselves, and provide evidence for what they're saying. Otherwise, how can you truly believe what they're saying? Would you simply go on faith? I should hope not.

    Now, of course, everyone has seen BDC prove himself in debates. I've seen it when he debated Pat Arnold on something. So, I'm not calling his knowledge or credibility into question, in this case, because he certainly is both. I would, however, like to see a thorough explanation as to why he feels his is better, with, of course, scientific references.

    And on the other hand, I would like to see Par release his formula completely, so a full comparison could be made, but I respect his decision not to, and I'm sure he has good reasons.
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    Originally posted by SirSavageX

    Now, of course, everyone has seen BDC prove himself in debates. I've seen it when he debated Pat Arnold on something. So, I'm not calling his knowledge or credibility into question, in this case, because he certainly is both. I would, however, like to see a thorough explanation as to why he feels his is better, with, of course, scientific references.
    Like K and I always say, sometimes common sense is more important than science. I dont waste my time questioning people, I look at the results others have got from a product so I buy it. Senseless? Maybe. But very logical. But I dont knock those who question things like you SSX, I commend you for wanting to leanr more, I just rather buy it and use it
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    Originally posted by windwords7


    Real world evidence has never seemed to matter to these guys Curt.

    If subject A uses Avant-X for 4 weeks and gains 15 pounds at a cost of 60 dollars and subject B ueses BDC-X for 4 weeks and gains 15 pounds at a cost of 40 dollars, who got the best results for the money? END OF SUBJECT
    Let me quote myself again and say, amen YJ, I just want to use whats working.
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    Originally posted by 1Fast400



    Didn't it get analized like 3 times?
    It was never alylized for absorption.. Like en vivo or something. The formula was anylized i thought . thats what whoever put it out on bb.com obviously did... Talk to ya..

     
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket


    Like K and I always say, sometimes common sense is more important than science. I dont waste my time questioning people, I look at the results others have got from a product so I buy it.
    Ok, tell ya' what, man, I've got this potion that will make you gain 30 lbs., increase your strength by 500%, and give you nine inches of ding-dong in only two weeks. There is absolutely NO scientific basis for what I'm saying, but hey, I've had a few guys try it and they absolutely LOVE it. $100 and it's yours, my man.

    Never question, huh? ALWAYS question.

    Some guys can swear by certain products, but there is little or no scientific data to back what product x is supposed to be doing for them. Placebo effect, training type and volume, genetics, and diet can all play a huge effect on a cycle, and it could be that product x had absolutely no effect all, but rather, it was all diet, training, and genetics.
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    Originally posted by SirSavageX


    Ok, tell ya' what, man, I've got this potion that will make you gain 30 lbs., increase your strength by 500%, and give you nine inches of ding-dong in only two weeks. There is absolutely NO scientific basis for what I'm saying, but hey, I've had a few guys try it and they absolutely LOVE it. $100 and it's yours, my man.
    Now come on SSX, thats low I said after I see results from someone else, a few people. Otherwise I would be buying all SDI-LABS and Impact Nutrition. Nut I know what goes into these PHs, Avants and BDC's. I know that 1-test powder is the greatest PH around, I know DMSO increases aborbtion quite a bit. With those things in mind, I can safely make a purchase and be sure I'll get results...see what Im saying?

    (PS- PM with the product that will help my ding-dong in a couple weeks)
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket

    (PS- PM with the product that will help my ding-dong in a couple weeks)
     

    LOL!
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    Hey SSX for all the data on how the formula came about is at bb.com under perfecting homebrew and hoembrew perfected. All the info on why we chose what we did is right there... Talk to ya...

    PS.. Make sure not to miss anything..hehehe Talk to ya..
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    The problem with debates between any of the big guys is this:


    About 2% can actually follow the debate. That is why some of these guys get so frustrated (no I'm not making reference to any 1 debate). They will be pissed as hell because on the science they are killing the other, yet the crowd (other posters) are to ignorant to follow and realize this.
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket

    With those things in mind, I can safely make a purchase and be sure I'll get results...see what Im saying?
    Yep, I see what you're saying. In other words, you questioned.
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    Originally posted by 1Fast400
    The problem with debates between any of the big guys is this:


    About 2% can actually follow the debate. That is why some of these guys get so frustrated (no I'm not making reference to any 1 debate). They will be pissed as hell because on the science they are killing the other, yet the crowd (other posters) are to ignorant to follow and realize this.
    I agree! And Ive decided to lay low on things Im not sure about because I dont want to be in that ignorant crowd (might be already though ) Another problem is its like sucking tit through a sweater Chemo's opinion isnt going to change because of what Par says, Par's opinion isnt going to change because of what Chemo says and on down the line. Mike hates me and I like Mike but our opinions arent going to change because of eachother (unless he sends me some free Liver tabs) so everyone let it be. All this **** overshadows everything good on this board, other sections, and you guys who dont post here but in these threads dont give a ****, because its not your problem to worry about, but its mine so Id like to see everyone kiss and make up (or shake hands would siffice I suppose).

    PS (Mike you're e-valentine cards is on the way)
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    Originally posted by SirSavageX


    Yep, I see what you're saying. In other words, you questioned.
    Booo! I didnt question, I reasearched 1-Test on my own and researched DMSO on my own, put 2 and 2 together and read the ingredients in 1-T Pro and decided that would work for me. Then read other's feedback on it and decided to purchase. I didnt go to Chemo or Par and say "why is this in there?" Because I know why its in there.
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    Aren't these quick responding threads what the chat is for. I'm in here alllll alone... heheheh. Talk to ya...

    PS.. DMSO goooooood......
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    Originally posted by curt2go
    Hey SSX for all the data on how the formula came about is at bb.com under perfecting homebrew and hoembrew perfected. All the info on why we chose what we did is right there... Talk to ya...
    Dammit Curt, you posted this linguistic pile of dung, when you could have been searching for those threads for me??

    I'm very rarely at bb.com anymore, but I'll search for those threads next time I'm there.
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    I watched Bill L get trashed...I mean DRUGGGGG through a debate, yet nobody realized it because they were to stupid to follow (and I actually stayed out of that debate)
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    Hey SSX i'll get you the links. Lazy ass.. heheheh.
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    Originally posted by 1Fast400
    I watched Bill L get trashed...I mean DRUGGGGG through a debate, yet nobody realized it because they were to stupid to follow (and I actually stayed out of that debate)
    Ok let me guess, but your boys Par, Dante and Pat?
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    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...cting+homebrew

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...brew+perfected

    There you go. Happy ready. there very long... But read all the info even all the links... Talk to ya.

     
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket

    Booo! I didnt question, I reasearched 1-Test on my own and researched DMSO on my own, put 2 and 2 together and read the ingredients in 1-T Pro and decided that would work for me. Then read other's feedback on it and decided to purchase.
    What lead you to research? A question.


    I didnt go to Chemo or Par and say "why is this in there?" Because I know why its in there.
    Most of the time, going directly to them and inquiring is unecessary, because they explain themselves in articles (or threads).
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    Originally posted by 1Fast400
    I watched Bill L get trashed...I mean DRUGGGGG through a debate, yet nobody realized it because they were to stupid to follow (and I actually stayed out of that debate)
    I've seen this happen a couple of times, Mike. Which one are you talking about?
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    Originally posted by SirSavageX


    What lead you to research? A question.

    Most of the time, going directly to them and inquiring is unecessary, because they explain themselves in articles (or threads).
    A question I suppose, but a different one in a sense. I didnt go ask the guru's and bug the **** out of them, I decided to take it upon myself. I dont question why is there more than your's and why does your's have this, etc. I ask logical questions that I can answer on my own. But I see what you're saying and more power to you.....
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    Originally posted by ShadowJack


    Perhaps I used the wrong word with theorizing. Here is a quote by Par made in the above-mentioned article:



    So, he is not only thoroughly explaining the science behind his reasoning, but he is also using the user feedback to try to justify his position.
    My point is that the exact same science behind that reasoning would be just as valid as pertains to Chemo's formula since except for splitting hairs on insignificant add-ins, the basic formulas are very near identical. And science behind the reasoning is simply not the same as a lab study, so all percentages are simply speculation, no more/no less.

    Chemo's products have nowhere near comparable distrubution, but the feedback coming in so far has been at least as positive as Avant's. And where bow compared 2 cycles of homebrew to 2 cycles of one+, he gave the nod to homebrew!
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    Pat?

    But this was an OLD debate. It wasn't on bb.com. Hell it has been almost a year (if not more) when this went on (and I didn't even know PA at that time).

    If we are going to attempt to move on YJ you can't keep putting these stupid ****ing after everything. I can't change the facts of the debate.

    Par and Bill never debate really. Big Cat and Par got into one time and well....I don't think I need to say anything else about big cat. He left bill standing to defend a VERY weak point. It sucked for bill, he got sucked into an argument he didn't want.


    Bill isn't a bad guy, just WAY to emotional
  

  
 

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