Question regarding methyls vs non-methyls

[DBinMD]

I’ve got a question regarding methyls vs non-methyls and I don’t remember any discussions regarding this on AM. It seems the conventional wisdom is not to stack 2 methyls because of liver toxicity. But I’m wondering if there isn’t another good reason. I’ve noticed a number of board members (myself included) who develop significant sleep issues while on cycle. In an attempt to mitigate the sleep issues would it make sense to take the long acting methyl early in the day (like before noon) and save the shorter acting non-methyl for the afternoon?

For instance, I think Halodrol is supposed to have a half-life of maybe 16 hours, I don’t know what Propadrol’s is, but since it’s a non-methyl, I’m guessing it’s half-life is closer to 4 hours. So 100 mg of Halodrol taken at 6:00am and 60 mg of Propadrol taken by 4:00pm, by 10:00pm a little more than half would be metabolized.

Does anyone have an opinion? Thanks

 

[Jetta]

DB,

I think you can stack two methyls as long as your total mg's don't get out of control. EX: you wouldn't want a full dose of both S-drol and H-drol but a partial of both may not be bad.

As far as sleep, and as far as sleep relates to Halodrol, I never had an issue with it. But, I always took it earlier in the day. At that time I was stacking the Original Orastan A with Haladrol-50 (original). I was taking the standard Halo dose around noon and taking O-A morning, noon and night -lol. I think I was doing 6-8 O-A's a day.

Right now, I'm taking MonsterCaps first thing in the AM and so far so good re: sleep. I'm not stacking it with anything obviously as it's one of those blends of methyls so I'm probably taking my balls in my hands as it is.

Hope this helps.

 

[pistonpump]

i wonder what the cause is exactly with the sleep problems on methyls.... :think:

 

[DBinMD]

DB,

Hope this helps.

Jetta: Yes it helps, thanks.


Piston: "i wonder what the cause is exactly with the sleep problems on methyls.... "

My theory is it's probably due to the stimulation from the adrogenic properties combined with it's long half life. Personnaly, I think I'm sensitive to stims and resistant to depressents. So a 50 mg dose of original halodrol ( that maybe has a half life of 16 hours) taken after noon means most of it will still be in my system around bedtime.

 

[Ziquor]

DB,

I think you can stack two methyls as long as your total mg's don't get out of control. EX: you wouldn't want a full dose of both S-drol and H-drol but a partial of both may not be bad.

As far as sleep, and as far as sleep relates to Halodrol, I never had an issue with it. But, I always took it earlier in the day. At that time I was stacking the Original Orastan A with Haladrol-50 (original). I was taking the standard Halo dose around noon and taking O-A morning, noon and night -lol. I think I was doing 6-8 O-A's a day.

Right now, I'm taking MonsterCaps first thing in the AM and so far so good re: sleep. I'm not stacking it with anything obviously as it's one of those blends of methyls so I'm probably taking my balls in my hands as it is.

Hope this helps.

This should work nicely from an anabolic POV as that dosing protocol should keep your body in an anabolic state all day :thumbsup:

They way I look at stacking methyls is as long as the dose of each is adjusted accordingly, why not? If someone ran 10mg of SD + 50mg of H-Drol per day this likely wouldn't be anymore toxic than 20-30mg of straight SD. Plus they should have a nice synergy together.

 

[DBinMD]

They way I look at stacking methyls is as long as the dose of each is adjusted accordingly, why not? If someone ran 10mg of SD + 50mg of H-Drol per day this likely wouldn't be anymore toxic than 20-30mg of straight SD. Plus they should have a nice synergy together.

I tend to agree, especially regarding sdrol. It seems that almost anything is safer. What i'm trying to figure out is a way of getting around the sleep issues with out using more sleep aids.

thanks for the reply.

 

[Jetta]

DB,

YOu could keep the dose further from bed time. Anecdotal accounts I've heard suggest that there is little more than a very minor difference acheived by spreading out the doses perfectly. Is this true? Maybe. I can pretty much promise, however, what is true is that a banged up sleep pattern will cost you some gains.

Food for thought.

 

[DBinMD]

DB,

YOu could keep the dose further from bed time. Anecdotal accounts I've heard suggest that there is little more than a very minor difference acheived by spreading out the doses perfectly. Is this true? Maybe. I can pretty much promise, however, what is true is that a banged up sleep pattern will cost you some gains.

Food for thought.

I agree about the cost of "banged up sleep patterns" , but i wasn't sure about the minor advantage of spreading them out. But with long acting methyls it makes sense especially when you consider your test levels should be lower at night anyway.

However, I suspect this doesn't hold for short acting non-methyls.

I'm thinking more and more that the way to go (or at least try) is methyls before noon and non-methyls spread through out the day.

thanks for the input.

 

[Ziquor]

I agree about the cost of "banged up sleep patterns" , but i wasn't sure about the minor advantage of spreading them out. But with long acting methyls it makes sense especially when you consider your test levels should be lower at night anyway.

However, I suspect this doesn't hold for short acting non-methyls.

I'm thinking more and more that the way to go (or at least try) is methyls before noon and non-methyls spread through out the day.

thanks for the input.

I think the big advantage in spreading out the dose especially for most methyl orals is not so much the test but the anabolic properties. Say if X-Drol has a half life of 12 hours theoretically taking 2 doses a day will keep your body in a constant anabolic state and keep a positive nitrogen retention all day which leads to more growth.

 

[DBinMD]

I think the big advantage in spreading out the dose especially for most methyl orals is not so much the test but the anabolic properties. Say if X-Drol has a half life of 12 hours theoretically taking 2 doses a day will keep your body in a constant anabolic state and keep a positive nitrogen retention all day which leads to more growth.

True, unless the side effects mean sleep loss, then I'm not so sure. I know a lot of people who can fall asleep right after drinking a cup of coffee, but I'd be wired for the next 10 hrs.

Actually, I'm not 100% how this works but if the half-life is 12hrs, then that should mean you'd be in an anabolic state for 24hrs off 1 dose. But i think you would have to dose every 12 hrs to keep the levels at their highest.

 

[Disturbed]

OP have you ever ran any AAS (non OTC)? I think anytime your testosterone is higher than normal it can affect your sleep.Methyls do seem worse for me too.Especially SD.I've had some krazy dreams before just on Test.

 

[Ziquor]

True, unless the side effects mean sleep loss, then I'm not so sure. I know a lot of people who can fall asleep right after drinking a cup of coffee, but I'd be wired for the next 10 hrs.

Actually, I'm not 100% how this works but if the half-life is 12hrs, then that should mean you'd be in an anabolic state for 24hrs off 1 dose. But i think you would have to dose every 12 hrs to keep the levels at their highest.

True about H/L, some feel it's better to have the consistent 'peaks' in your blood levels for max growth. There was an article about interval dosing in MD which included taking smaller doses closer apart. But if it's affecting you negatively with something as important as sleep, people seem to have just as good of gains dosing twice a day anyhow.

 

[jonny21]

Not just methyls with sleep issues. Many, including myself, have sleep issues with Tren, Bold. and other non-methyls.

 

[Ziquor]

Not just methyls with sleep issues. Many, including myself, have sleep issues with Tren, Bold. and other non-methyls.

Hormones are supposed to have some degree of affinity for the Gaba receptors, which is where benzodiazepines (like valium) have their activity. Some supposedly act as antagonists so maybe this is where the issues arise from. I've never personally had any issues with the compounds I've ran thus far (knock on wood). But this makes me wonder if low dosed GABA or Phenibut would help with the issue.

 

[DBinMD]

this makes me wonder if low dosed GABA or Phenibut would help with the issue.

Gaba does help, but not well enough