Transdermal delivery system
- 09-06-2008, 09:57 AM
Transdermal delivery system
I am planning to use testosterone suspension via transdermal route, as I heard everyday injections of this compound are very painful.
To this effect, I looked into DMSO, but found that users reported it gave a very strong pungent odor, which is not acceptable to me.
Does anyone know if MSM can be used instead of DMSO for transdermal delivery of testosterone suspension powder? What about trenbolone acetate (as I may run this in the future).
If MSM can be used, is the rate of absorption the same as DMSO? if not, what is the difference?
- 09-06-2008, 11:13 AM
09-06-2008, 05:28 PM
09-06-2008, 06:36 PM
This quote came from an article of Nature
"Enhanced solubility of drugs is of special interest for hydrophobic drugs, such as oestradiol. Ethanol and propylene glycol are often used as solubilizers." However, testosterone suspension is water soluble, not fat soluble.
If you notice, the ingredients of Penetrate are:
Isopropyl alcohol, propylene glycol, ocytl salicylate, triglyceride complex, water, d-limonene
-- d-limonene is not water soluble
-- octyl salicylate is water soluble
-- propylene glycol is soluble in both water and isopropyl alcohol
-- triglyceride complex (for what, fat solubility?)
Androderm, which is a proven transndermal delivery for testosterone, uses the following ingredients:
alcohol, carbomer, glycerin, glycerol monooleate, methyl laurate, purified water and sodium hydroxide
Given the info above, would penetrate still be the best delivery agent for testosterone suspension?
09-06-2008, 06:40 PM
09-06-2008, 07:09 PM
Sorry, I meant testosterone powder that is is isolated from synovex using NaOH. From what I have read, it should be non esterified testosterone that is the powder.
I was planning to simply mix the powder with the transdermal carrier liquid and rub it on the skin, as I would have if I used DMSO.
Do I have the right idea here?
09-06-2008, 07:47 PM
09-06-2008, 07:48 PM
09-06-2008, 10:50 PM
penetrate is good stuff. dont go over 8-10g/240ml, otherwise it wont all dissolve. heat helps, and crushing the T base is crucial. test TD is pretty awesome, have fun!
09-06-2008, 11:14 PM
O wait, so I put all the powders into the penetrate bottle and mix it all up and store it?
How about mixing some MSM in the penetrate to make the test powder even more solubilized?
09-07-2008, 12:28 AM
Someone mentioned heating. This will help. One word of caution. Don't heat your Penetrate in the plastic bottle it comes in. It will deform it. Even in a double boiler.
09-07-2008, 07:00 AM
DMSO, oh, the reason I dont want to use it is because of the smell.
Given that DMSO isn't an option, would MSM be the 'next' best option for increasing solubility of testosterone base through the skin?
Have you had personally experienced success with testosterone base powder mixed with penetrate?
09-07-2008, 11:55 AM
I have no idea if MSM will do anything at all.
As to your other question, Yes. Tried it once. Worked well. Just found it to be a pain applying it twice daily.
09-07-2008, 04:29 PM
Penetrate certainly works and most people are actually fond of, or dont seem to really notice, the lemon scent.
09-07-2008, 08:42 PM
Thankyou all for your input; i'll be ordering some penetrate.
Anyone know the absorption rate for testostoerne base powder when used with penetrate, so i can know how much to spray on each time?
09-07-2008, 08:51 PM
Most people say between 25-35% is absorbed. Use the thin parts of the skin... Tops of feet, calves, etc. Shaving the area helps too.
Also, if you keep the concentration down, that seems to improve absorption.
09-07-2008, 09:18 PM
As to heating the test base powder + penetrate, what temperature are we talking about here? id imagine not too high since there are alcohols in the mixture that will easily evaporated if temps too high....but what has 'demonsyrated' to be the 'best' temperature for maximum increase in solubility?
I am thinking of preparing 18-20g of test base powder spread over 3 bottles of penetrate, that is around 6g of test base powder each bottle. Sound good?
09-07-2008, 10:39 PM
I've never measured the temperature when I heat it, but I'd guess it to be somewhere around 130-140 degrees. Again thats just a guess. Hot enough you dont want it to splash on you, and you need to let it cool before you put it back in the original bottle.
You can put 12grams into a bottle with no problems. That gives you 50mg/ml concentration. Nice number to work with. Make sure you shake it well before each use, and use an oral syringe to measure it out. The pump isn't accurate enough for this.
09-08-2008, 02:37 AM
i started my test base transdermal this week. 12g in Penetrate with 24mL (10%) of DMSO added. dissolves fine, just shake before each use real good, and it leaves no white residue. has a pleasant orange smell and seems to be working so far. feel good in the gym and outside the gym, biggest thing thus far is the morning wood since i started. my tent is so pitched it can sleep a family of 5 in it
i also tested this same setup on 2 other lab rats who recently finished. the lab rats were both tall and hard gainers. the test lasted ~8 weeks with 17lb and 19lb kept post cycle. test base kicks in very fast and gains will be noticed very quickly. both gained 13+lb within the first 3-4 weeks. i would also recommend splitting the dosage 12hours a part if you can, half-life is somewhere between 12-28 hours so it works best to keep blood plasma levels stable this way. hope you enjoy this first hand information
09-08-2008, 03:04 AM
"my tent is so pitched it can sleep a family of 5 in it"
Yes, the info has helped!
Thanks everyone for the help, I relaly appreciate it!!
Just in case you guys were wondering...my cycle is as follows:
1) Test powder 25-50mg ED (with 25% absoprtion rate of penetrate factored in). Dosage to be determined by side effects tolerance
2) Letrozole 0.25mg EOD prophylactic (prevention of aromotase activity)
3) Nolvadex if needed and only if needed, dosage to be determined
4) Vit B2, 6, 9 - 200mg ED (lower homocysteine and
5) Vit C - 5g ED (lower cortisol)
6) Liv.52 ED (liver protection)
7) Nizoral ED (prevent hair loss)
8) 2 extra strength multivit tablets ED
- no training
- nolvadex 20mg ED
- Test powder dosage at 5mg ED
- Vit C - 5g ED
- Liv.52 ED
- 1 extrastrength multi vit
- Vit B2, 6, 9 100mg ED
Rationale behind this is to allow the cortisol levels to lower without compromising muscle mass
PCT (4 weeks)
Nolvadex 20mg ED (dosage to be adjusted as needed)
Vit C - 5g ED
HcG not available.
* PCT is not too important for me because I already have secondary hypogonadism (idiopathic), so I am already 'shut down' to begin with. My LH, testsoterone and free testoterone levels are slighlty below normal range (estradial normal). In fact, my original intention of 'juicing' was to create my own testsoterone 'gel' --- like androgel since doctors were unwilling to give me HRT because my testsoterone levels were not '0'. The purpose of this PCT will be to try to restore my testosterone levels back to my 'normal low levels' instead of 0.
Would anyone here agree with my using test base ran at 2.5mg ED (or less) as HRT?
09-08-2008, 10:21 AM
09-08-2008, 10:37 AM
09-08-2008, 10:45 AM
Just in case you live with others, especially wife/girlfriend and CHILDREN please read this if you haven't all ready. Good safety stuff in it.
Virilization of Young Children After Topical Androgen Use by Their Parents
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