Cycle Advice

Jetta

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Hello,
Hope you don't mind a new member coming right out with a question but wanted to get comments on this cycle layout. Background. 39 YO, 5'10", 185#, roughtly10% BF maybe a hair less (recently competed - bulking now), Some PH experience - original Halo, Orastan A and a couple of the Tren knockoffs. Looking for lean mass. goal is to compete in the spring at 180 so looking for about 10# out of this - nice and dry.

Here's what I started (in week 1):

Week 1 - Week 6: Monster Caps 60mg ED
(Blend of H-Drol, S-Drol, Max LMG and DBH).

Week 7 - 11: R. Chem. Tamox @ 40,30, 20, 20
Plan to Run Novedex XT inverted to the tamox dose.

Supports:
Anti - Oxidants (those I take typically including CoQ10)
I'll add:
RYR, Saw P, and some extra Milk thissle (the Mon. caps have milk thissle but it's probably just some tolken amount).


I know how some of you feel about these blends - e.g., monster caps - and I respect your opinions but I would just ask to remain objective and just provide thoughts around the structure of the cycle, supports and, inparticular, the PCT (never did this Inverted AI to a SERM gig before.

Thanks and good to be here. Been lurking for years but just joined.

Peace
 
mixedup

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Hello,
Hope you don't mind a new member coming right out with a question but wanted to get comments on this cycle layout. Background. 39 YO, 5'10", 185#, roughtly10% BF maybe a hair less (recently competed - bulking now), Some PH experience - original Halo, Orastan A and a couple of the Tren knockoffs. Looking for lean mass. goal is to compete in the spring at 180 so looking for about 10# out of this - nice and dry.

Here's what I started (in week 1):

Week 1 - Week 6: Monster Caps 60mg ED
(Blend of H-Drol, S-Drol, Max LMG and DBH).

Week 7 - 11: R. Chem. Tamox @ 40,30, 20, 20
Plan to Run Novedex XT inverted to the tamox dose.

Supports:
Anti - Oxidants (those I take typically including CoQ10)
I'll add:
RYR, Saw P, and some extra Milk thissle (the Mon. caps have milk thissle but it's probably just some tolken amount).


I know how some of you feel about these blends - e.g., monster caps - and I respect your opinions but I would just ask to remain objective and just provide thoughts around the structure of the cycle, supports and, inparticular, the PCT (never did this Inverted AI to a SERM gig before.

Thanks and good to be here. Been lurking for years but just joined.

Peace
What is the breakdown of the blend?
 

Jetta

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Well, that is a very insightfull question to ask and I'm ashamed to not have an answer and feel a little silly using it just the same. From what I've been told by very reliable sources, it's a moderate dose of SD with a small dose of both Halo and Max. the idea behind this thing is to try and get the SD gains with a little less in the way of sides. I tried SD once and the Hypo symptons and stomach pain was off the charts. That's why I'm saying if this gets out of hand I'll cut it short. Sorry I can't aswer that.
 

Jetta

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thanks. I'm thinking it might be too. I'll probably do 4 depending on how I'm feeling. My biggest concern with these compounds is the liver toxicity.
 

Jetta

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I'm also considering ordering Clomid instead of Nolva for this cycle. From the reading I have done there is much debate but it seems people seem to agree that Clomid is pretty good for bringing back ones balls! Toss a 6oxo or NOVXT in there tapered the opposite way and all should be pretty well I would imagine. Any comments would be great.

Also, not sure if you've seen my other thread but I"m wondering if it's ok to just shop based soley on price when butying research chems. The one innovative outfit sells 60ml vile of clomid for $30-!!! About half of what the other sell it for.
 
edwards

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thanks. I'm thinking it might be too. I'll probably do 4 depending on how I'm feeling. My biggest concern with these compounds is the liver toxicity.
the problem with this compound is that halo takes 4 weeks to really kick in. many people use it for 5-6 weeks, while superdrol's sides seem to outweight the gains by the end of week three.

so you see the connundrum.

why not just run superdrol at 10/20/20?

don't play with fire. there's been alot of problems with these cocktail compounds. just look at the recent posts on omnevol.
 
edwards

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I'm also considering ordering Clomid instead of Nolva for this cycle. From the reading I have done there is much debate but it seems people seem to agree that Clomid is pretty good for bringing back ones balls! Toss a 6oxo or NOVXT in there tapered the opposite way and all should be pretty well I would imagine. Any comments would be great.

Also, not sure if you've seen my other thread but I"m wondering if it's ok to just shop based soley on price when butying research chems. The one innovative outfit sells 60ml vile of clomid for $30-!!! About half of what the other sell it for.
i've always shopped on price and my nuts are perfect right now, three weeks after a cycle of epi.

in fact, i felt more aggressive during yesterday's workout than i did 5 weeks into my cycle. :thumbsup:
 

Jetta

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Thanks Edwards. I've shopped on price in the past and had no problems but I thought I would ask since that was a couple of years ago. I used their nolva.

I hear you re: the cocktail of Compounds. I've already started this so it's full speed ahead. Halo actually gave me decent gains after about two weeks but it was the first ph I ever took.

I was trying to avoid the bloat that people sometimes get with SD standalone. Also, Ive tried and failed to handle standalone SD clones so I figured thismight work.

Thanks
 

Jetta

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By the way, for those who wish to know. I'm on day 3 of the Monster Caps and feeling a slight but permenant NO2-like pump effect. I'm also loosing some water weight, which leads me to think that the MAX LMG piece may not be that big of a % in these. Just speculation on my part but I bet this is weighted more heavily to Halo - 1) the almost immediate water loss and 2) each time I've taken a SD knock off I got Hypo symtoms and upper GI pain which I'm not getting.

I'll keep this thread updated - not so much a log - but just an information source since there isn't much out there on this compound yet. My diet/training is Meticulously consistent so I'll be able to tell for sure if this stuff is having any impact.
 
pistonpump

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how bout an epithio compound with a halodrol compound or tren clone? You could run a combo of those and with the 'tren' compound you could run it for 6 weeks since its nonmethyl. epi clone + tren clone would be good imo and not to bad on the sides and harshness. jmo
 

Jetta

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how bout an epithio compound with a halodrol compound or tren clone? You could run a combo of those and with the 'tren' compound you could run it for 6 weeks since its nonmethyl. epi clone + tren clone would be good imo and not to bad on the sides and harshness. jmo
That's actually interesting. I've already started this so I'll see what happens. I was thinking of running ClycloTren for 8 weeks along side the Monster Tabs and then adding in a O-A clone at the 4 week mark - furaz or something.. I'm probably gettin ahead of myself a little though. I want to see how harsh this cocktail is on me before I do something like that because after 8, im looking at an equally toxic PCT with those SERMS.
 
pistonpump

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do you already have the monster tabs?

you wanted lean muscle i believer maxlmg is pretty wet...just saying.
 

Jetta

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do you already have the monster tabs?

you wanted lean muscle i believer maxlmg is pretty wet...just saying.
Yes, already taking them. And yes, the MAx is very wet but you also have Halo and SD in there along with another goodie to enhance absorpion. Having a wet compound in there probably isn't a bad thing.
 

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I gotta agree with piston an epithio probably wouldve been a better choice. Know alot of guys tryin to run dry cycles and were really impressed with Havoc. Its a little late now but maybe next time
 

Jetta

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I gotta agree with piston an epithio probably wouldve been a better choice. Know alot of guys tryin to run dry cycles and were really impressed with Havoc. Its a little late now but maybe next time
I agree. In fact I'm starting to feel a little anxious about a cocktail of methyls this toxic but, since it's 60mg, instead of 100 or whatever the hell some off the others were - e.g., Omnevol - I'm going to ride it out for a while.

I'll tell you though. If I get the slightest sign of liver issues, I'll discontinue this in a split second.
 

Jetta

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Today was chest/shoulders - Volume session. Day 4 with Mon. Caps.

Nothing rediculous to report. Reps up on same weight from last week - pretty consistently. Pump was decent. Not that I was expecting miracles in 4 days.

Here's some diet info for anyone interested.

Typical Diet on Workout Days (cut carbs and cals a bit on nWOD):
  • PWO: 1C. Oats, 1C. 2% Milk, 1 Scoop Whey, 30 grams PB
  • M2: 30G PB, 10 oz. Yam, 6 Oz. Chicken
  • M3: 10 Almonds, 1 Cup Veggies, 6 oz. Lean Meat
  • M4: Same
  • M5: Same
  • M6: Salad, Oil & Vin, 10 Almonds, 6 oz. Lean Meat
  • M7: 1/2 C. Cottage Cheese, 15 Grams PB
Supps:
  • Size-ON at Night
  • Vit C, E
  • CoQ10
  • ALA
  • L-Carn
  • L-Tyro
  • Super
    SuperPump Pre-Workout

    Supports:
    • Milk T.
    • Saw P.
    • RYR
    • Grape Seed Extract
 

Jetta

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Today was chest/shoulders - Volume session. Day 4 with Mon. Caps.

Nothing rediculous to report. Reps up on same weight from last week - pretty consistently. Pump was decent. Not that I was expecting miracles in 4 days.

Here's some diet info for anyone interested.

Typical Diet on Workout Days (cut carbs and cals a bit on nWOD):
  • PWO: 1C. Oats, 1C. 2% Milk, 1 Scoop Whey, 30 grams PB
  • M2: 30G PB, 10 oz. Yam, 6 Oz. Chicken
  • M3: 10 Almonds, 1 Cup Veggies, 6 oz. Lean Meat
  • M4: Same
  • M5: Same
  • M6: Salad, Oil & Vin, 10 Almonds, 6 oz. Lean Meat
  • M7: 1/2 C. Cottage Cheese, 15 Grams PB
Supps:
    • Size-ON at Night
    • Vit C, E
    • CoQ10
    • ALA
    • L-Carn
    • L-Tyro
    • Super
    Pump Pre-Workout
Supports:
  • Milk T.
  • Saw P.
  • RYR
  • Grape Seed Extract
 

Jetta

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OK, I'm a week in to this cycle right now.

*Strength: Up a little nothing nuts (just that little tail wind...those few extra suprising reps).
*Weight: Up about 2 pounds so far.
*SKin Folds: no Change
*Water retention: Some - abs are a little blurry.
*Muscle Pumps - just a little extra skin tightness that kind of hangs around for most of the day.

So nothing much to report so far. Hopefully week two will show me some love.

Just going by feel, I like this so far. The SD component must be small because I react bad to SD almost immediately. I'm getting some very subtle SD side but not like in the past. Feels much more like I did on Halo/O-A actually.

Keeping a good watch for any upper stomach pain (i.e., liver), any skin issues (i.e., possible liver), anything really funky going on with urination or even the slightest bid of eye yellowing.

Comments are always welcome.
 
dg806

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thanks. I'm thinking it might be too. I'll probably do 4 depending on how I'm feeling. My biggest concern with these compounds is the liver toxicity.
You have 3 methyls in there. Liver tox is a big concern with this. I would definately run some cycle support with this which it looks like you are. What are you doing PCT?
 
Pemmican

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I'm also considering ordering Clomid instead of Nolva for this cycle. From the reading I have done there is much debate but it seems people seem to agree that Clomid is pretty good for bringing back ones balls! Toss a 6oxo or NOVXT in there tapered the opposite way and all should be pretty well I would imagine. Any comments would be great.

Also, not sure if you've seen my other thread but I"m wondering if it's ok to just shop based soley on price when butying research chems. The one innovative outfit sells 60ml vile of clomid for $30-!!! About half of what the other sell it for.

I wouldn't get the clomid over the nolva (or R.C Toremifene). I forget the reasons behind it, but there were a few huge advantages to taking nolva/tore over clomid. Can someone help me out here...its on the tip of my tongue and i just can't spit it out!!!!
 

Jetta

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You have 3 methyls in there. Liver tox is a big concern with this. I would definately run some cycle support with this which it looks like you are. What are you doing PCT?
For PCT:
W1: 40 Nolva (Research Chem - probably dose about 125%)
W2: 30 Nolva
W3: 20 Nolva
W4: 20 Nolva + 300mg 6oxo
W5: 200 mg. 6oxo
w6: 200 mg. 6oxo
w7: 100 mg 6oxo.

I'll run the supports - RYR, SawP, GrapeSeed X, CoQ10, Milk Thissle, ALA, L-Carn, L-Tyr - all the way through the PCT.

BCAA's are a staple in my diet so that should help with any Cort related catabolism but I could always toss in like a 7-keto or something if I'm concerned.

I'll be gettin blood work toward the end of the MC cylce. I'm sure my Dr. will be like "WTF"!!! Considering my numbers were pristine not long ago. The numbers bounce back quick though - i.e., liver, lipids etc.
 

Jetta

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I wouldn't get the clomid over the nolva (or R.C Toremifene). I forget the reasons behind it, but there were a few huge advantages to taking nolva/tore over clomid. Can someone help me out here...its on the tip of my tongue and i just can't spit it out!!!!
Thanks man. I agree. I read an article from BIG CAT over at BB.com where he explains why Nolva is better. I think the SERM may be overkill for a ps/ph cycle but F-it. It's about 1/4 the cost of the OTC alternatives and it's pretty tried and true. I don't want my Balls - literally - to be on the bleeding edge of recent research !!
 
dg806

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The numbers bounce back quick though - i.e., liver, lipids etc.
Don't count on it at all. Sometimes it takes many months to get lipids to to anywhere near where they were. This is where some guys mess up by starting another cycle too soon and their lipids are still bad from the previous cycle. I agree on the nolva. It will not only help restore your test level, but it will help your lipids.
 

Jetta

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Your going to need the SERM after this cocktail. What do you mean by dosing at 125% you going to run Nolva at 50mg?
The Liquid Nolva is usually underdosed. Also it's Tamox citrate, which I'm given to understand is less than 100% Tamox anyway. So, yes, My thought was to disense just a hair over 2ml in the syringe for 40mg dose.
 

Jetta

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Don't count on it at all. Sometimes it takes many months to get lipids to to anywhere near where they were. This is where some guys mess up by starting another cycle too soon and their lipids are still bad from the previous cycle. I agree on the nolva. It will not only help restore your test level, but it will help your lipids.
I'm sure you're right about the timing to bring back lipids. But, I probably wont do another cycle period. My goal is to just add about 5 dry pounds and be a digit or two leaner for my next contest. These compounds are not wonder drugs by any means but they might be good for this narrow purpose. After this, I would really have to shite or get off the pot - i.e., either decide to be a full fledged AAS user or not a user at all as it relates to competition.
 
A_I_Sports_Nutrition

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The Liquid Nolva is usually underdosed. Also it's Tamox citrate, which I'm given to understand is less than 100% Tamox anyway. So, yes, My thought was to disense just a hair over 2ml in the syringe for 40mg dose.
Not all the liquid nolve is underdosed so try to make sure your is before over dosing it.
 

Jetta

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Not all the liquid nolve is underdosed so try to make sure your is before over dosing it.
Sure, but it's Tamox Citrate and I beleive almost all these guys are expressing mg in terms of the total weight - including the citrate - so one would need to compensate for that to reach the desired tamox dose. I'll probably stick with 40 though. I've been reading that most PCT's are way too heavy handed - i.e., you probably don't need anywhere near 40mg even in the first week - 20mg would probably more than do it.
 

Jetta

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Update:

This is day 8 today and I'm begining to feel some changes:

1) back is begining to hurt a bit. Now, this could easily be due to the Rack Pulls I did on Tuesday when I thought I might tear the lats from my skeleton but it's a Hmmmmm moment.

2) A little anxiety at times and a generaly feeling of uneasiness.

3) feeling uncharacteristically tired in the afternoon.

4) woke up at 3am this morning so hungry I had trouble getting back to sleep, which sucks because I get up at 4:30.

5) I drop almost all carbs on non-workout days, ecxept breakfast. Yesterday was one of those days - Did sprints in the AM. By 3 or 4 yesterday I was getting that feeling of going into Ketosis - for those who know, it's that kind of feeling you get in your head (impossible to explain). This could be a SD thing as SD is a carb destroyer.

6) Dropped water with the low carb day - can usually see it in my abs and that's how I can tell. BUT, the scale didn't change at all. Hanging right in there at 189#. So it makes me wonder what kind of Pig I'll be when I stand on the scale tomorrow - lol.

Off to do my low volume chest workout - you guys should try this one. Cage Bench with Pins, 1 rep, 10 second pause, 1 rep, pause etc. for 5 reps. You use like your 3 rep max - not PL like max - not looking to just hoist the weight. I'm talking max where you're directly targeting the muscle. It's a great workout. Lots of other things in this workout but that will be the highlight of my morning.

So, if these symptoms progress too far, not only will I cut this short at 4 week, maybe even 3.

Cheers.
 

Jetta

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Hello,


On day12 today.

Lethargy is a little rough - just feel decidedly undermotivated and sleepy at times.

Appetite, esspecially for carbs, is unreal.

Strength is coming up steadily BUT honestly not much more than what I can do with diet alone. BUT it's only been 12 days.

This will be the deciding week. If I don't see something signficacnt be the end of the week, I will cut this short at 2 weeks.

Bottome line: there is no sense in stressing the hell out of your body for minimal gains, which by the way is exactly what I'm begining to think Pro-Steriods/hormones are all about - i.e., worse sides than AAS but without any of the gains.
 

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