Pulsing Havoc... Did it work for you?
- 09-03-2008, 06:53 PM
Pulsing Havoc... Did it work for you?
I've done the research, but still see alot of debate regarding pulsing and it's effectiveness. I want to pulse Havoc, as honestly lack of sides and shutdown are more important to me than "somewhat" better gains if I ran it straight. But then again... I don't want to completely waste my time either.
Background: 6'0 - 205lbs - Lifting 3 years - No previous cycles of any time.
- 09-03-2008, 06:56 PM
I havent said anything yet but i use an offstandard protocol of three days on and 5 days off and have seen increasing gains without the sides and with much less use of what you'd normally use. Really an outstanding product.
- 09-03-2008, 07:03 PM
Bumping this up, for a wider range of opinions. I think there are a lot more pulsers out there.
09-04-2008, 12:34 AM
09-04-2008, 02:13 PM
I pulsed Havoc for 6 weeks(3x wk)
Started at 10mgs. and finished last dosage at 60mgs.
4 wks. of PCT
I saw good strength gains as well as general AI like properties:
1) Leaned out
2) Hardening of muscle
No substanial size gains
I will opt to run it straight next time
09-04-2008, 02:18 PM
09-04-2008, 02:28 PM
Just regular supps, no other type of hormone.
09-04-2008, 02:32 PM
09-04-2008, 06:14 PM
I already have the bottle of Havoc... and I just want to make sure that a drop in libido does not become an issue, so I'm pretty certain I am going to pulse it.
Did you take an AI during the off days?
This is also my first cycle... so I'm hoping to see good results!
09-04-2008, 06:15 PM
09-07-2008, 05:00 PM
just about done with my havoc 4 week cyc....any ideas for otc pct? I plan on using cs/6oxo/lean xtreme. Any other solid products lookin good?
09-07-2008, 05:10 PM
10-04-2008, 10:39 PM
I gained about 5 lbs. (wasn't eating to add mass), good strength gains, and a lowered libido.
10-06-2008, 11:31 AM
What time of the day did you take it? I got the IBE Epi and there 20mg pills. I didnt check and really wanted 10mg but ah well. So at lunch or a couple hours before i workout?
10-06-2008, 03:34 PM
I usually took first dose late morning/early afternoon pre wo, second dose pwo. Taking earlier theoretically will help prevent suppression.
10-06-2008, 03:38 PM
Wrong, they're 20mg/serving. One serving: two pills. One pill: 10 mg.I got the IBE Epi and there 20mg pills. I didnt check and really wanted 10mg but ah well.
10-06-2008, 03:51 PM
Dang, owned. Well thats good, as i would rather take one before and one after as mentioned before. But bad as im gonna have to buy more now!
10-06-2008, 05:07 PM
it was aiight, but i got a little gyno surprisingly from it...it was also prolactin related i believe, no lump, nip just squeezed out a tiny bit of juice, but i aint too worried, ever since i was a kid i had chest fat and plus im not that thin these days LoL. my pct was pretty **** tho, i used novedex xt for 4 weeks 40/30/20/10 and pulsed epi for 6 weeks 10/20/30/30/40/40...but i got sick in the middle of the last 40 dose and had to take a week off but it was all good. went from 170-185, leaned out a bit, strong as an ox, but like i said, pct was **** and i drank alot haha and now im back to 175....im not touching PH's in the near future, maybe when im in my 30's ill do real gear.
10-19-2008, 08:19 PM
I used Epi at varying does, starting at 20 mg (10 before, 10 after a workout, every other day) then finally moving to 80 mg. 80 was too aggressive, so I stuck with 60 mg po eod. I saw my bench move from 235 to 300 lbs. I started at 180 lbs and ended at 202. My PCT was just AI's Post Cycle Therapy. I ate like a horse and worked out like a fool. I loved it...
10-19-2008, 08:20 PM
As the one who has had the material (even before the first production release) the longest, and also being blessed/cursed with a rabidly curious mind and disregard for my own safety (not really)...I played with a bunch of different protocols.
Honestly, compared to the minimal shut down I have experienced on full cycles (or as Jay alluded to high dosage on workout days and either lower or non dosage on off days) I have to admit that pulsing just didn't do it for me.
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10-19-2008, 08:20 PM
I have been running an epi pulse, my first PH/PS cycle ever, with pretty awesome results.
10-20-30 first week, 30-30-40 second week, 40-40-50 third week, and I will be doing 50-50-50 next week (final week).
I was a very lean (8% or less) 175-176 when I started, as I had recently cut down from 205. I have been gaining a lot of strength (squat up an easy 20 pounds right now, leg press up a lot, adding 5lbs easy to my strict BB curl each week) although I think it's normal to gain back your strength after losing it on a long-term cutting cycle.
The best part is, I weigh at least 182-183 now, and have gotten quite a bit leaner. That's up 7-8lb in 3 weeks. Libido is up. I actually gained the weight/recomped with 3000 cal per day, I am going up to 4000 this last week.
I have had my diet "dialed in" this whole time and been getting plenty of sleep. Oh, and I'm taking 100mg DHEA morning and night.
So, basically, this 4 week pulse cycle has used half the bottle and I've gotten incredible results.
10-19-2008, 09:55 PM
Im beggining week 3 on Monday and so far im not real excited. I havnt notice any gains or strength increase at all. I started at 30mg and am now at 40. Maybe ill have to go up some more.
10-20-2008, 09:40 AM
What's your diet/training like, and is it pulse or ED dose?
10-20-2008, 11:01 AM
Its a pulse. M/W/F. On the off days im taking DHEA and trib. My diet is clean but only about 2000 calories. Im trying to lean a little so i was trying to not eat to much. I know youve gotta eat to get big, but i was hoping to notice something from it and so far i havn't. My only reference is a ED of Furaz and my diet was even less calories for a part of that, and i noticed good results from that. I dont know when Epi is supposed to kick in as well, this is a 8 week pulse im trying so theres still time.
10-20-2008, 06:53 PM
Interesting. Like I said, I just came off of a fairly intensive fat loss period before beginning my pulse. I think if you increase calories you may notice more effect, including better body composition. I weigh less than you (now, I was 205) and went up to 3000 expecting to gain weight, but had a fairly amazing recomp within 2 weeks. Went from 175-176 up to 180 in those two weeks, and got noticeably leaner and more vascular. That's why I went up to 4k/day. Hopefully I'll hit 188-190 before the end of the cycle. IMO that would be exceptional for a 4 week pulse, if I gained 13-14 pounds and got leaner or kept the same overall body composition.
I may just be someone who responds better than you do to this compound. I am tempted to go for 8 weeks, but instead I will be using PCT (I do have SERM but will not use it unless I am truly shut down or have testicular atrophy or pre-gyno symptoms) for 4 weeks and then perhaps running the other half a bottle.
What do you think of the DHEA? I am doing it every day, 200mg...I am pretty happy with it, and I think it boosts my mood and perhaps my libido. Only downside, as a fairly oily guy with some acne already, I am getting some nasty cystic acne on my back and a much oilier complexion than I already had.
Best of luck.
10-20-2008, 06:55 PM
Oh, anyone who has acne from a cycle or just normally deals with it, I found a great remedy...this sounds like a joke, but it is honestly the best thing I've found.
I put milk of magnesia on my face every night thick and let it dry, then wash it off in the morning. Instant improvement and your face won't be very oily if at all the next day.
10-20-2008, 09:41 PM
MOM? Never heard that one. As far as the DHEA, i notice a libido change definantly. I think im going to have to increase my calories as my leg day was today, and my usual routine include squats :
Then i move on to leg ext,curls,calf rsises,and leg press. Today i made it to 315X4 and went home. I had nothin left after very little work. Real dissapointed in that.
10-21-2008, 12:28 AM
That's a solid routine with the squats. But I'm not surprised you aren't able to perform on 2000 calories a day.
Another option would be to change your workout to something better for fat loss...like Waterbury Summer Program or Real Fast Fat Loss...but I think raising calories would be smarter, simply because it's not hard to lose fat without the Epistane.
11-01-2008, 08:57 PM
I pulsed epi with decent results. I did 4x/week for 4 weeks, ramping up to 50mg. Strength went way up, and I kept about 6 lbs of what I gained. Still suffered androgenic sides though, lost some hair, acne, ect. I took x-lean on off days, and ran a 3 week nolva pct. Somehow wound up with gyno two months later.