Is this true? Vitamin E inhibits the effect of PH conversion?

  1. Registered User
    SUPAJAwS1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Boston
    Age
    26
    Posts
    46
    Rep Power
    163

    Is this true? Vitamin E inhibits the effect of PH conversion?


    taken from this article by BigCat http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catavoid.htm

    Vitamin E and Prohormones

    Vitamin E is a popular anti-oxidant amongst athletes and justly so. I myself supplement 400 IU most of the year. But when on a prohormones stack it may be wise to give it a rest for a couple of weeks. As a fat-soluble vitamin your storages are plentiful if you supplement year-round. But Vitamin E will inhibit the effect of prohormones, and even some test boosters. The conversion will not happen fully, and that's only if the prohormones actually reach receptors. You are potentially cutting your gains by 50 to 60 percent. Prohormones stack well with most supplements though. Just kick back the vitamin E, you'll be getting small amounts in your multi anyway.




    soo?? Has this been proven to be indeed true?

  2. Banned
    sifu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,395
    Rep Power
    0

    I wonder if that would be true with omega 3&6 pills.
  3. Registered User
    Cogar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Within 3 miles of my favorite gym.
    Posts
    387
    Rep Power
    327

    I agree with his conclusion regarding not taking ZMA and calcium together and do not agree with his conclusion regarding not taking ribose and creatine together. (His argument reads like one that says you cannot take creatine and glutamine together since they share the same transport mechanism. This is not true with normal-sized doses, since your transport mechanism can handle perhaps 10 grams total at a time.) Hard to say about Vitamin E and prohormones. Personally, I would continue taking vitamin E since it is an important antioxidant. Until someone comes along with better information, your best bet might be to space it in-between prohormone doses to minimize any possible interaction.
    •   
       

  4. Registered User
    bioman's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Flagstaff, AZ
    Age
    42
    Posts
    7,699
    Rep Power
    513131

    It brings up a good question certainly. Anecdotaly I was taking E with my multi as well as it being a componenet of my fish oil and flax pills..while on cycle and got very good gains. So who knows? Maybe its highly dose dependent or maybe its nothing to worry about.
  5. Registered User
    Toneyfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Age
    32
    Posts
    38
    Rep Power
    153

    My first cycle I only gained 8 lbs off of, and that's when I was supplementing with 400-800 IU's of Vitamin E a day. At the end of that cycle I remember reading Big Cat's article, and was curious about the Vitamin E thing to say the least.

    This next cycle(the one I just finished) I gained about 15 lbs, and I made sure not to take any Vitamin E at all, even from a Multivitamin(instead I supplemented with Vitamin C, Calcium, and B-Complex on their own).

    So in my experience, I had better gains without Vitamin E during the 1-Test/4-Ad cycle. Take that for what it's worth.
  6. Registered User
    neurotic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    124
    Rep Power
    201

    What about flax?

    Inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase in genital skin fibroblasts and prostate tissue by dietary lignans and isoflavonoids.

    Evans BA, Griffiths K, Morton MS.

    Department of Child Health, University of Wales College of Medicine, Health Park, Cardiff, UK.

    Isoflavonoids and lignans, constituents of many plant foods, have been proposed as protective agents in those populations with a low incidence of hormone-dependent cancers. They may act by their inhibition of the metabolism of growth-promoting steroid hormones. This report describes the inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase and 17 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase by six isoflavonoids and two lignans in human genital skin fibroblast monolayers and homogenates, and in benign prostatic hyperplasia tissue homogenates. In genital skin fibroblasts, genistein, biochanin A and equol were the most potent inhibitors of 5 alpha-reductase activity, each resulting in greater than 80% inhibition at a concentration of 100 microM. The IC50 values for genistein and a seven-compound mixture were approximately 35 microM and 20 microM (2.9 microM of each compound) respectively. Of the lignans, enterolactone was the most potent inhibitor. Inhibition by biochanin A was shown to be reversible. When genital skin fibroblast homogenates were used, biochanin A was found to inhibit 5 alpha-reductase isozymes 1 and 2 to differing extents (30% and 75% respectively). Genistein was shown to inhibit 5 alpha-reductase 2 in a non-competitive nature (Vmax and Km values without and with inhibitor were 30 and 20 pmol/mg protein per h and 177 and 170 nM respectively). All of the compounds tested inhibited 17 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase activity in genital skin fibroblast monolayers. When prostate tissue homogenates were used, the compounds tested were better inhibitors of 5 alpha-reductase 1 than 2.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

    PMID: 7490559 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  7. Registered User
    NO MERCY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    745
    Rep Power
    611

    Originally posted by SUPAJAwS1
    taken from this article by BigCat http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catavoid.htm

    Vitamin E and Prohormones

    Vitamin E is a popular anti-oxidant amongst athletes and justly so. I myself supplement 400 IU most of the year. But when on a prohormones stack it may be wise to give it a rest for a couple of weeks. As a fat-soluble vitamin your storages are plentiful if you supplement year-round. But Vitamin E will inhibit the effect of prohormones, and even some test boosters. The conversion will not happen fully, and that's only if the prohormones actually reach receptors. You are potentially cutting your gains by 50 to 60 percent. Prohormones stack well with most supplements though. Just kick back the vitamin E, you'll be getting small amounts in your multi anyway.




    soo?? Has this been proven to be indeed true?
    i took 400iu of vitamin E on top of my multi one ph cycle and only a multi on another identical ph cycle. My gains were excellent and basically identical with and without the vitamin E. This is just my personal experience.
  8. Registered User
    neurotic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    124
    Rep Power
    201

    I have learnt that you have to take BigCat's statements with a high degree of caution. For instance, in that same article, if I'm not mistaken, he advocated against the usage of anti-estrogens saying that they would reduce gains to a big degree. That's clearly an overstatement.
  9. Doctor Science
    Board Sponsor
    LakeMountD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    4,253
    Rep Power
    2554

    yeah im kinda of weary to believe some of that too because if you read his ICE training system it advocates using extremely high volume, we are talking like 10 ore more sets for JUST biceps..insane in my opinion.. im gonna stick with the vit E while on m-1-t.. need those anti oxidants
  10. Registered User
    neurotic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    124
    Rep Power
    201

    Originally posted by LakeMountD
    yeah im kinda of weary to believe some of that too because if you read his ICE training system it advocates using extremely high volume, we are talking like 10 ore more sets for JUST biceps..insane in my opinion.. im gonna stick with the vit E while on m-1-t.. need those anti oxidants
    With 1-test you aren't going to have a problem anyway due to the fact that it doesn't rely on any enzyme conversion because it's not a prohormone,it's a steroid.
  11. Doctor Science
    Board Sponsor
    LakeMountD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    4,253
    Rep Power
    2554

    yeah but im taking 4-ad as well..
  12. Registered User
    Iron Warrior's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  265 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    5,329
    Rep Power
    13066

    Would it also affect transdermal absorption as well, it does affect absorption at all ?
  13. Registered User
    neurotic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    124
    Rep Power
    201

    I don't see why it should.
  14. Registered User
    bioman's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Flagstaff, AZ
    Age
    42
    Posts
    7,699
    Rep Power
    513131

    Agreed Nuerotic. BigCat has done great things for BB and to help people understand some of the science behind it but he's a student last time I checked and not an endocrinologist.

    IMO I'm thinking vitiman E is nothing to worry about when on cycle. I think trying to grow mscle quickly without E would be counterproductive.
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. would DHA inhibit the effects of x-factor at a certain dosage?
    By GuyverX in forum Molecular Nutrition
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-26-2008, 10:32 AM
  2. Is this true?
    By Buc4Life04 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-06-2005, 10:53 AM
  3. DHEA use in women- is this true? products?
    By nikegurl in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 08-05-2004, 09:17 PM
  4. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 02-26-2004, 02:38 PM
  5. 6oxo - Is this true?
    By BBwant2getBIG in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-25-2003, 11:35 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in