Bridging out of Epi into my own humility

zeuscronion

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Getting humble is a *****. So, here it goes, my first post. I've lurked for a year or so here, gathering info to make informed decisions. I talked to people I know who lift, excercise, whatever...and came up with what I believed to be a solid decision. Where am I going with this? A little background first, I guess.
Im 24 years old. I've been lifting "seriously" since I was 18. I have experience with "real" gear (although the argument can be made its all "real). I have had an interesting fitness "experience." Started out heavy, overweight... trained hard, lost the weight, ended up too skinny. Upped the calories, changed the routine, got as big as I could, took some time off, boom....fat again. Bla bla bla Here we are today. I lost all that weight a few years ago. I am skinny. I excercise 6 days a week. I train as hard as I can. I eat clean, and I eat alot. I've always had trouble putting on mass on my upper body...my lower body gets huge quick. I've hit that magic 'plateau' everybody mentions with the amount of weight I put up during upper body days.
Long story short. I decided that it had been awhile since I did a cycle of anything, and after a great deal of research I made the decision to run a cycle of epi, with a pct of nolvadex and the proper support supps (have clomid on hand as well). I wanted to put on some lean mass, increase my strength, and break through the barriers I have been stuck at. Im not going to BS anyone and say that I bench press 500 pounds and am built like a truck. Im not, but I am (and have been) putting the effort in.
So Im two and half weeks into my epi cycle at 30 mg, and Im a little dissapointed with my results. Yeah, I know its only been 2 1'2 weeks, but I know my body, and this stuff is not going to cut it for what I wanted to do. So I want to change it up.
I guess I thought this stuff was going to be a little bit more like what I was, well, used to. Its a great product dont get me wrong, no sides, very mild, cheap effective, bla bla bla. But I dont want to waste a cycle, and I dont want to do illegals anymore (thats my choice, and I respect anybody's decision to run whatever they want).
So- I have a bottle of p plex, m drol, and trenadrol. I need some advice. I want strength gains, I want mass gains, I have experience with proper PCT and sides, so those are not my concerns. I have the proper support supps, and I am absolutely willing to stack whatever needs to be stacked. What should I do to bridge out of epi, for how long, cause I want to make the most of my cycle? Staying the course of the epi is not an option for me. I appreciate people reading this, I know it was long, but I could really use the help guys....you have all been a huge help to me thus far, and I know will continue to be.
 
dsade

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DOn't rush it...the Epi should start kicking in HARD any day now.

IMO, give it another 3-4 days before deciding.
 
crazyfool405

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if you decide to stop i would say bridge into Trenadrol, and carry out proper PCT
 
RoadBlocK

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Bump it up to 40mg and run it for another week like dsade said.
 

zeuscronion

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any comments about stacking say, p plex and mdrol? or epi and p plex? or epi/tren? As far as sides go, I guess Im really only trying to avoid libido problems, although i guess that goes along with the territory.... I have to say, I am curious to do the a p plex/mdrol cycle... but I guess Ill wait to see what more people say, again, im trying to get the most out of this. thanks to those who have responded thus far, your comments are duly noted.
 
crazyfool405

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any comments about stacking say, p plex and mdrol? or epi and p plex? or epi/tren? As far as sides go, I guess Im really only trying to avoid libido problems, although i guess that goes along with the territory.... I have to say, I am curious to do the a p plex/mdrol cycle... but I guess Ill wait to see what more people say, again, im trying to get the most out of this. thanks to those who have responded thus far, your comments are duly noted.
im doing the p plex mdrol bridge right now


im logging it too. im in week 1.5
 

crazilyfter42

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I ran epi 40mgs a day and was pretty disappointed also. Slightly leaner and more vascular/ pumps was all I got out of it. No strength increase at all gained like a lb maybe 2 but that was due to me just eating a ton more than usual. I guess Im just not a responder. During the begginning of my last week I just decided to bridge over to oral stanozolol. I had some sitting around and managed to scrouge up enough to run 50mgs for 4 weeks. I didnt want to push it and go any longer than I already was(which is about 7wks). Honestly it was the best decision I could have made and wish I had done it earlier so I could of ran the winny longer. As soon as I started the winny weight and strength went up and is continuing to do so. Epi didnt give me that "on" feeling at all but after bridging over it was like night and day.
 
crazyfool405

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im goin a lil crazy

i did 19,2 mg 2 day
38.4 for 1 week
now im at 57.6 mg, and ill do that for 2 weeks
and when i bridge i dont know if i wanna stay at 38.4 or 19.2, still deciding.
 
EasyEJL

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epi/tren is likely your best bet at maintaining libido if that is important
 

zeuscronion

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im goin a lil crazy

i did 19,2 mg 2 day
38.4 for 1 week
now im at 57.6 mg, and ill do that for 2 weeks
and when i bridge i dont know if i wanna stay at 38.4 or 19.2, still deciding.
uuh... perhaps im missing something, and with all due respect... what? the p plex ive got is in 10 mg caps, and the m drol is as well ... curious to where the decimal point is working its way into all of this... im asking cause im interested (although people seem to keep telling me stick with the epi, stick with the epi) in bridgin out of the epi into the pplex mdrol stack, and im trying to get my dosages right as well as my timing, and frankly im a little lost in that regard... so if anybody has advice in doing such, id appreciate it-even if its not the route i take... i was thinking of briding out of epi into the pplex and then adding mdrol next week, but I dont know if thats too far away/too soon.
thanks for the tip on libido... i guess the tren is scaring me more than the mdrol, maybe its me but the sides of tren people are posting seem worse than the sd clones...
stupid question, i shouldnt stack tren on top of the pplex/mdrol stack should i choose to go with it, even as a non-methyl right? ive got a friend recommending doing such, and im not opposed to a harsher cycle, but I just want to get my "moneys worth" so to speak....
 
EasyEJL

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he has the 15mg pplex caps that are overloaded, there was a specific batch that was 19.2mg/cap

remember that more steroids doesn't get more results without matching diet + exercise. not wanting to sound negative but unless you are at 5-6% bf, 180 @ 6'2 means you need a bunch more calories :)
 

zeuscronion

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he has the 15mg pplex caps that are overloaded, there was a specific batch that was 19.2mg/cap

remember that more steroids doesn't get more results without matching diet + exercise. not wanting to sound negative but unless you are at 5-6% bf, 180 @ 6'2 means you need a bunch more calories :)
thanks for the info on mg. yeah, i know, im skinny. i eat roughly 3500-4000 calories a day. I try to do it in "real food." Through the years of being "skinny" I became a little bit of a cardio junkie, and my 6 day a week was, for a long time, split 3/3 cardio/weights. Ive dropped to a 4/2 weights/cardio (although for the cycle im doing cardio once a week).... i dont know if its conceivably possible for me to eat more calories than this, so Im hoping this cycle can help add some mass (in conjuction with good diet/etc). I know stacking methyls is generally regarded as a bad idea, but p plex/m drol is something people stack quite a bit...would it be a terrible idea to stack epi/mdrol? anybody? I think mdrol is where I want to take this whole fiasco, but I want to stack it with either the epi/pplex/or tren, and if bridging out of the epi, im not sure what my dosages should be.... bear in mind my body has a high threshold for this kind of stuff (shockingly) as I know from past experience... ideas please?
 
EasyEJL

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really without more cals, you wont gain much. try using olive oil or coconut oil to add more easy cals. a single shotglass (1oz) is 28g, which is 252 cals.... add 2 of those a day, you have an extra healthy 500 cals
 
jpk

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couple of thoughts:

1. stop cardio for a few months. you won't die.

2. Eat 6-7 meals a day

3. forget sugar and caffeine. clean up your diet.

4. try a cortisol modulator like lean extreme, 11-oxo or LeanFX if they ever get it to market.

5. lift low rep, heavy weight concentrating on squats and dead lifts.

Best of luck brother!
 
crazyfool405

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uuh... perhaps im missing something, and with all due respect... what? the p plex ive got is in 10 mg caps, and the m drol is as well ... curious to where the decimal point is working its way into all of this... im asking cause im interested (although people seem to keep telling me stick with the epi, stick with the epi) in bridgin out of the epi into the pplex mdrol stack, and im trying to get my dosages right as well as my timing, and frankly im a little lost in that regard... so if anybody has advice in doing such, id appreciate it-even if its not the route i take... i was thinking of briding out of epi into the pplex and then adding mdrol next week, but I dont know if thats too far away/too soon.
thanks for the tip on libido... i guess the tren is scaring me more than the mdrol, maybe its me but the sides of tren people are posting seem worse than the sd clones...
stupid question, i shouldnt stack tren on top of the pplex/mdrol stack should i choose to go with it, even as a non-methyl right? ive got a friend recommending doing such, and im not opposed to a harsher cycle, but I just want to get my "moneys worth" so to speak....

dont stack the pplex and mdrol

you should look at the batch numbers on your CEL supps and look at the COA

the p plex i have is 030508 i think,

i would go epi into trenadrol, and not into a p plex mdrol stack, im a huge fan of pushing the limit, but thats too much for me lol



epi then trenadrol will be good for strength and recomp where as epi to phera, will be recomp- mass

if anything i woulda dont P plex Mdrol bridge and pulsed the epi weeks 2-5

but im a nut, and its too late to do that, so stick with what you have run proper PCT and then start fresh in feb or march,
 
crazyfool405

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at 180, macros for bulk on these can go as high as:

270 protein lean sources only
300-360g carbs complex only except PWO
60-90g fat olive oil PB mac nut oil Fish oil ect,

Post work out should include 75g WAXYMAIZE and 40g WHEY ISOLATE this alone is about 500 cal.

then about an hour later have real food,

Have a weight gainer like Cytogainer for breakfast and that will be another like 650 cals i think ( i dont know off hand.)
 

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i myself just came of a p-plex mdrol tren xtreme cycle. ran p-plex first 3 weeks then bridged into m-drol/tren in 4th after an additional 3 weeks of m-drol/tren i dropped the mdrol and ran tren at 6 caps a day for another 2 weeks. strength and mass gains were incredible on p-plex and for the duration of the time on m-drol/tren combo execpt gains were obviously fairly wet on phera then switching into the m-drol/tren phase completely leaned me up very vascular looked somewhat disgusting.

as far as that stack goes, from personal experience i would say its only worth it if your willing to deal with some pretty bad sides. didnt have any acne, libido somehow survived, but my temper was really second to none and i durring the m-drol/tren phase i was extremely lethargic almost unbearable at times. But now im on day 5 of pct and havent lost a pound yet. Hopefully the remainder of the pct goes as well as it has been.

good luck on making your decision
 
crazyfool405

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i myself just came of a p-plex mdrol tren xtreme cycle. ran p-plex first 3 weeks then bridged into m-drol/tren in 4th after an additional 3 weeks of m-drol/tren i dropped the mdrol and ran tren at 6 caps a day for another 2 weeks. strength and mass gains were incredible on p-plex and for the duration of the time on m-drol/tren combo execpt gains were obviously fairly wet on phera then switching into the m-drol/tren phase completely leaned me up very vascular looked somewhat disgusting.

as far as that stack goes, from personal experience i would say its only worth it if your willing to deal with some pretty bad sides. didnt have any acne, libido somehow survived, but my temper was really second to none and i durring the m-drol/tren phase i was extremely lethargic almost unbearable at times. But now im on day 5 of pct and havent lost a pound yet. Hopefully the remainder of the pct goes as well as it has been.

good luck on making your decision

how much you gain? and how exactly was it ran, can u give a break down

P plex
Mdrol
Trenadrol

???
 

zeuscronion

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thanks guys, i appreciate all the info.... the amount of different/conflicting stuff im hearing is really, well, overwhelming. The epi on its own is not cutting it, that I know. Again Ill point out that I have had heavier/stronger times (a few years ago when I ran a couple of "legit" cycles), and thought the epi would, on some level, match those cycles...stupid, I know. So, on one hand Ive got the no no no dont run a p plex mdrol cycle, then I have the fact that that stack is actually pushed as "the stack" (marketing ploy obviously, but has to mean something right?).... So the question really is, where do I go? I cant shake the nagging feeling that I should just phase into the p plex, dropping the epi to 20 mg and running the pplex at 20, then epi at 10, pplex at 20 (all in the span of the next week), then eventually no epi, but bring in the mdrol at 10 mg.... run the m drol stacked with the pplex for the following three weeks, then straight into pct..... am i crazy? i feel like this makes sense, but again, my experience is not with orals (oddly enough), so Im open to any and everything.
 

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i really hate posting things like how much i gained because people will say no your lying or thats bullshit etc. but for the sake of helping you make and informed decision i will.

height 6' 5"

Starting weight roughly 220 + or - a lb gym scale is sometimes off

current weight 251lbs extremely lean as well. wish i had taken some before/after pics.

p-plex
wk1 30mg (2 caps/day)
wk2 45mg (3 caps/day)
wk3 60mg (4 caps/day)
wk4 45mg (3 caps/day) (note this was the bridge week into m-drol and tren xtreme)

m-drol
wk4 20mg (2 caps/day)
wk5 30mg (3 caps/day)
wk6 40mg (4 caps/day)
wk7 50mg (5 caps/day)

xtreme tren
wk4 90mg (3 caps/day)
wk5 120mg (4 caps/day)
wk6 150mg (5 caps/day)
wk7 180mg (6 caps/day)
wk8 180mg (6 caps/day)
wk9 180mg (6 caps/day)

my whole idea with running tren for an additional 2 weeks was to hopefully harden up some of the gains making it easier to maintain in pct. Whether my theory holds any weight or not im not sure but now in pct my weight has been holding. For an idea of strength gain i went from 315 for 2 bench to now hitting 455 for 1. sounds crazy but thats really what it is. Strength was coming so fast that i somehow managed to strain my right bicep on my second 455 attempt and had to take a week off from upperbody lol. One more thing to note i didnt get anystronger on the tren only phase all of the strength came in the first 7 weeks.

well anyway be careful good luck
 
RoadBlocK

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Not sure what you feel is conflicting, but most will tell you DO NOT run mdrol(superdrol) and p-plex(pheraplex) at the same time/together, this is not the same as bridging for a week from one to the other, or running one then the other in the same cycle.

mosberg has laid out an acceptable cycle map as an example.

I forgot, are you running real epi?? ie: epistane, havoc, epithin-e, or did you buy a knockoff clone? That may be part of the problem.
If its real, then I still say up the dosage on the epi to 40mg and run it for another week, but it looks like thats off the table.
 
crazyfool405

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i really hate posting things like how much i gained because people will say no your lying or thats bullshit etc. but for the sake of helping you make and informed decision i will.

height 6' 5"

Starting weight roughly 220 + or - a lb gym scale is sometimes off

current weight 251lbs extremely lean as well. wish i had taken some before/after pics.

p-plex
wk1 30mg (2 caps/day)
wk2 45mg (3 caps/day)
wk3 60mg (4 caps/day)
wk4 45mg (3 caps/day) (note this was the bridge week into m-drol and tren xtreme)

m-drol
wk4 20mg (2 caps/day)
wk5 30mg (3 caps/day)
wk6 40mg (4 caps/day)
wk7 50mg (5 caps/day)

xtreme tren
wk4 90mg (3 caps/day)
wk5 120mg (4 caps/day)
wk6 150mg (5 caps/day)
wk7 180mg (6 caps/day)
wk8 180mg (6 caps/day)
wk9 180mg (6 caps/day)

my whole idea with running tren for an additional 2 weeks was to hopefully harden up some of the gains making it easier to maintain in pct. Whether my theory holds any weight or not im not sure but now in pct my weight has been holding. For an idea of strength gain i went from 315 for 2 bench to now hitting 455 for 1. sounds crazy but thats really what it is. Strength was coming so fast that i somehow managed to strain my right bicep on my second 455 attempt and had to take a week off from upperbody lol. One more thing to note i didnt get anystronger on the tren only phase all of the strength came in the first 7 weeks.

well anyway be careful good luck

thats absolutley crazy man,,,,,, i thought u went on trenadrol extreme tren is much diff. either way thats crazy

30 lbs? damn ...... that cycle is ridiculous. and i thought i was nuts lol

you went really high on that M-drol, howd you feel on it? ne blood work? pix? anything?
 

crazilyfter42

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If I were you it would be a bridge over to p-plex. DMT just cant be beat when it comes to strength and mass gains with the current designer options. Trust me you wont be disappointed :thumbsup:. It is not a wise decision to stack anything w/ m-drol. The cycle that was posted above 9wk p-plex-mdrol/trenadrol is insane. I could not even imagine the liver values during and after that extent of 17aa abuse. BP and cholestorol must be very bad also.
 

zeuscronion

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to the question of real epistane.... yep, ibe epistane. two bottles of the stuff... So I guess I will not run the pplex and the mdrol at the same time. Seems like nobody is recommending mdrol at all actually... How about a bridge from epi into the mdrol? Sides aside folks, is there something Im missing?
 
RoadBlocK

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If I were you it would be a bridge over to p-plex. DMT just cant be beat when it comes to strength and mass gains with the current designer options. Trust me you wont be disappointed :thumbsup:. It is not a wise decision to stack anything w/ m-drol. The cycle that was posted above 9wk p-plex-mdrol/trenadrol is insane. I could not even imagine the liver values during and after that extent of 17aa abuse. BP and cholestorol must be very bad also.

You make good points, but for the op, I think this snip of the quote will outline a possible mdrol/pplex cycle, although the dosages are higher than I would recommend.

...........................

p-plex
wk1 30mg (2 caps/day)
wk2 45mg (3 caps/day)
wk3 60mg (4 caps/day)
wk4 45mg (3 caps/day) (note this was the bridge week into m-drol and tren xtreme)

m-drol
wk4 20mg (2 caps/day)
wk5 30mg (3 caps/day)
wk6 40mg (4 caps/day)
wk7 50mg (5 caps/day)....................

Perhaps something more sensible, along the lines of:

p-plex
wk1 (2 caps/day)
wk2 (3 caps/day)
wk3 (3 caps/day)
wk4 (2 caps/day) (bridge week into m-drol)

m-drol
wk4 (2 caps/day)
wk5 (3 caps/day)
wk6 (3 caps/day)

Liver stress, as always, will still be a concern, but should be managable with proper ancillaries.
 
edwards

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I would bump the epi to 40mg and add the tren.
save the pplex and mdrol for another time.

why rush it? take what you get out of this cycle and learn from it. dial in your diet, drop the cardio down to maintenance, 2x per week, 20 min for your heart. once dialed, run the pplex/mdrol bridge.

2 weeks on epi is just getting started.
my .02
 

mosberg

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yeah i would agree the cycle was nothing less than insane, quite franky i wouldnt wish the sides on anyone, on m-drol/tren like i said i was extremely lethargic. It seemed to take me till about 12 to finally wake up lol which sucked because i was doing slave labor construction starting at 7am. No i didnt get any bloodwork done, but i ran everything that i should have, liv.52 obviously a shitload of omega 3-6-9 a min of 3 g of vit.c 2 animal paks a day, hawthorn, just to name a few, i had all of necessary support sups. It cost me way more in supports than it did for the rest of the cycle lol. For a more manageable cycle i would suggest much lower doses and i can say that the bridge week (week 4) on all three (p-plex, m-drol, tren xtreme) was complete hell. if i were to do it again i would only run 30mg p-plex 20mg m-drol and 60mg tren. The androgenic sides were completely unbearable. One day at a construction site i was digging about a 200ft long 3ft deep trench through pavement (thus i was standing on the pavement digging down). To make a long story short it was 96 degrees out. and on pavement in direct sun feels like 200 lol but my lower back freaked just started spasming i went to throw up but couldnt even do that because everytime i would go to hurl it would spasm again an interupt. lol needless to say not a fun day at all and the stack of all three was a huge contributing factor to my misery.

As far as blood preasure goes i didnt even get it checked because my arm couldnt fit in the cuff at stop and shop hahaha, but i know it was high, didnt have dull headaches or nosebleeds but i did have a vein in each temple that looked like a jugular and with each heartbeat you could see them pulsate.

Ill try to get some pics up, will be from the first week of pct and no before pics to compare too but should be interesting none the less.
 

zeuscronion

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guys, awesome. thanks for the info..... i guess the plan then is going to be to switch out to pplex. i like the idea of epi, but ive been running it 20/30 and havent felt much of a difference... again, i understand that its something i would want to run for longer, but i cant shake this nagging feeling that its a mistake to do so... call it a hunch. as far as the excercise advice, cardio has been dropped to a once a week 20 minute session (HIIT), and i guess im going to have to up my calories higher than the 3500-4000 i eat, cause obviously thats not cutting it. I already feel gross eating that intake (a mindset left over from when I had to drop a bunch of weight), but i guess this is what comes with the territory. again, thanks... more from me in coming days
 

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