Any prohormone that doesn't effect libido, during and post cycle?
- 08-05-2008, 09:39 AM
Any prohormone that doesn't effect libido, during and post cycle?
Is there any mild PH out there that isn't going to cause me to get a divorce from my wife? I took M-Drol in the past and the bedroom was a war zone.
Looking to take a nother PH, hopefully without her even noticing, both during and post cycle (with proper PCT of course)
Is this even possible?
- 08-05-2008, 10:27 AM
Epi works well, but i never have any problems on any cycle.
whenever im on a cycle, i always have yohimbine and arginine to help with that area, i take it hour before sex.
seems to work, and theres studys on ED and yohimbine.
08-05-2008, 10:32 AM
08-05-2008, 10:51 AM
proviron and Epi work in a similar way so running them together not smart (it may even compete for the receptor making it hard for the epi to do what its supposed to do),,,, proviron wont aid in the PCT process it binds to the androgen recptor, and has androgenic properties which can keep u shut down during a pct.
08-05-2008, 11:17 AM
i didn't say anything about PCT. Proviron keeps your libido up and running while on cycle. My libido always crashes on a cycle. Ever since i started to run proviron during my cycle I haven't really had any problems. It also never affected any of my gains.
08-05-2008, 11:18 AM
Also it has been shown that proviron run at 100mgs for a year had not shown any signs of shut down or suppression.
08-05-2008, 11:30 AM
08-05-2008, 02:39 PM
Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, St. George's Hospital Medical School London, U.K.
Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.
PMID: 2892728 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
08-05-2008, 02:40 PM
08-05-2008, 02:45 PM
some more info on proviron:
Proviron (mesterolone) is basically an orally active DHT (Dihydrotestosterone) preparation. For comparision, we can think of some other orally prepared DHT compounds like Winstrol, Anavar, etc& Those both act very similarly in mechanism to Proviron, but a more accurate way to think of this compound is as something like "Oral Masteron." As Iīm sure you noticed, their anabolic/androgenic ratio is very similar.Remember, DHT is 3 to 4 times as androgenic as testosterone and is, of course, incapable of forming estrogen. Also, Proviron is quite unique in that a simple look at itīs 4-ring structure will show us that it is not going to be too liver toxic, since it is not c17-Alpha-Alkylated, as many orals are& this modification (lacking in Proviron) makes drugs more liver toxic. Proviron has a 1-metyhl group added, instead. Looks pretty great on paper, right? Well, as usual, things tend to look better on paper than they do in the body. Your body has a negative feedback loop which prevents your body from having too much DHT floating around(if youīve been paying attention up to now from reading my other stuff, you already know this). An excess of DHT will eventually be changed into another (largely not anabolic) compound.
And of course, being a DHT-based compound, this stuff isnīt going to be great for female athletes to use. Virilization (development of male sexual characteristics) is going to be a concern for women daring enough to try this stuff. My advice is that there is much better, safer compounds for female athletes and bodybuilders to use.
So lets go back to the comparison with being some sort of "Oral Masteron"& basically since Proviron is 5-alpha reduced and not capable of forming estrogen, and also has a very high affinity for binding to the aromatase enzyme (the enzyme responsible for converting all that good testosterone in your body into all that nasty estrogen). That means if you choose to take proviron with testosterone (and I know you wouldnīt even be doing a cycle without including some form of testosterone) and/or any aromatizable steroid, it should actually serve to prevent estrogen build up by the aforementioned binding to the aromatase enzyme, which prevents aromatase from doing itīs dirty work and making a bunch of estrogen out of the other steroids you are taking. It should also be noted that Proviron also binds very well to SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin& a hormone responsible for reducing the amount of circulating free testosterone in your body)(1). As a matter of fact, in the last study I read, it bound to SHBG better than any other drug studied. Also, Iīd like to note that Proviron bound to the Anabolic Receptor better than any oral anabolic (except for the insanely toxic MethylTrienolone), having an ability to bind to the AR better then testosterone, but not as well as Nandrolone (1). Unfortunately, as we know, DHT also has a high affinity for binding to receptors in the scalp and prostate, causing some possible nasty side effects, like male pattern baldness and prostate enlargement. Itīs important to remember that DHT and DHT derived compounds are used quite successfully to treat gynocomastia, and in this area, Proviron is no different.
Letīs delve into some of the positive points of this drug before we go any farther. Androgen Receptors are found in fat cells as well as muscle cells(5), and whilethey act on the AR in muscle cells to promote growth, they also act directly on the AR in fat cells to affect fat burning.(9)(3) The stronger the androgen binds to the A.R, the higher the lipolytic (fat burning) effect on adipose (fat)tissue(6)(2). As if thatīs not enough good news, some steroids (notably, testosterone) even increase the numbers of A.R. in muscle and fat (9)(7). Thus, if you are taking a simple stack of proviron and testosterone, youīll have more of the test you shoot as free testosterone floating around building muscle (compliments of the Proviron), more androgen receptors to be bound to (compliments of your testosterone) by your Proviron, thus causing more fat loss. Testosterone and Proviron are a very nice synergistic stack, pretty nearly an "ideal" stack of an oral and injectable, because both drugs will actually act to enhance the effect of the other.
So what we have here is a steroid which can basically make other steroids more effective by preventing their conversion into estrogen, as well as increasing the amount of circulating free testosterone in your body. This of course all provides a more hardened and quality look to muscles. Proviron is very much a "synergistic" drug in this respect, and itīs inclusion in any cycle would definitely make all of the other steroids perform better, and provide better gains. This is all compounded by the fact that proviron is a very lipolytic (fat-burning) drug.
Now, as if all of this werenīt enough, letīs talk about how Proviron affects your HPTA (Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular-Axis)& the thing that regulates the male hormonal system. When a reasonable dose of this stuff is given (100-150mgs/day), it had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels (6). Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH) and Leutenizing Hormone (LH) are two hormones which send a signal to your testes to produce testosterone. Good news for people considering it for PCT is that it can even raise your LH (10)! Thus, by not suppressing those hormones and maybe even raising some, your normal testosterone levels will remain intact. This points to a novel use for this compound during Post-Cycyle-Therapy for a non-suppressive "bridge" between cycles. In fact, in yet another study, administration of Proviron (basically the same dose as in the last study) produced no changes in steroids, thyroid hormones, gonadotropins nor PRL (Prolactin Levels& you want those to remain low). (8).
Unfortunately, this stuff is not too hot on itīs own. Itīs a good drug for inclusion in a cycle containing testosterone and other armoatizable steroids, and itīs a good drug for a possible "bridge" between cycles. Alone, however, as an androgenic or anabolic agent, itīs effects have been very weak in both studies (9), as well as in the experience of everyone I spoke to about it. This may be due to the addition of the 1-methyl-group to DHT, which makes this stuff orally active. Whatever the case, as a stand alone anabolic or androgenic compound, itīs not too impressive.
08-05-2008, 04:11 PM
personally i got it up while on epi just as normal as before using it. some others report the exact opposite effect, so it really depends on how ur body reacts to the compound.
id have to say probably epistane/havoc, or halodrol would be the least shutdown, but still good ol lean gains that are noticable.
08-05-2008, 04:32 PM
I just got off tbol. The gains were nice nothing crazy but my muscles were hard and full all the time, the pumps were insane too. I ran proviron along with it balls barely shrank, libido was good.
08-05-2008, 05:30 PM
Halodrol-50 and Phera are supposed to be good on libido
People dont like Superdrol on libido but its been working great for me
I think everyone is so different in how they react like this, you really won't know until you try.
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08-05-2008, 05:50 PM
08-05-2008, 08:02 PM
good info on the proviron,
im still a little skeptical, but if it worked for you it worked for you
08-05-2008, 09:07 PM
08-06-2008, 08:26 AM
I ran that and had a big gain in libido for almost the entire cycle. The first couple weeks was crazy. Towards the end it reverted back to a normal libido.
Id recommend that stack, also for really solid gains. I put on 12lbs and kept 10 with zero fat gain and big strength gains.
It didnt give me joint or tendon soreness either.
08-06-2008, 09:45 AM
08-06-2008, 10:58 AM
08-06-2008, 01:47 PM
ill keep it in mind , but its the same reason why im skeptical about 6 bromo but thats a diff story haha
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