Good PH Stack for the Buck

[GonnaBeHuge]

I have been lurking around here for awhile now, and decided to join. I have 2 questions. I am gonna go on PH except I was wondering what a good stack is for the most bang for the buck, and the most effective one.

Or would it be best to make my own gear at home. Perhaps we are comparing apples and oranges. I don't know

 

[MarcusG]

Best bang for the buck would be homebrew. If you've been lurking long enough I'm sure you'll know the prices on various phs. Price is not always important, side effects need to be taken into consideration too.

 

[GonnaBeHuge]

Ok, lets say I don't want to worry 'bout homebrew. What would you guys suggest?

 

[nozzi]

I would try Dermabolics 1-test & 4Derm or BDC's 1-test & 4-AD products. Both are transdermals, and very cost effective. I personally havn't tried either brand but they are both made by reputable people and you should het good results either way you go.

 

[jdhz12181]

homebrew a cyp and pin it, cheapest and by far most effective.

 

[Bean]

methyl 1-test when you think about it is a good deal

10mg is enough for a light-medium cycle, and 20mg is enough for a medium-heavier cycle...

and that little bit can put lean mass on you fast

 

[NPursuit]

What are your goals for this cycle?

 

[cookmic5]

Bean, do you really think M1T is a good choice for a first cycle?

cm5

 

[sifu]

no

 

[yelis300]

I think methyl 1-test is too strong for a beginner cycle. I would start with a 1-test-4ad combo. You will see incredible gains your first cycle...if nutrition and training is in check.

 

[GonnaBeHuge]

Alright then. What is a good reputable brand for 1-test and 4-ad. Isn't Super One+ that?

 

[sifu]

I would go with the BDC brand at legal gear

 

[GonnaBeHuge]

Excuse my newbie quetsion. But is legal gear a website or somethin'? And how difficult would it be to get into Canada

 

[sifu]

You would have to ask them about Canada. Ya it is a website, just put .com at the end. They have a section at the bottom of this page as well.

 

[GonnaBeHuge]

Ok, so my next question i sthis. How would my stack look. Like how many g would I take at a time at what time of the week. Is there a popular one that everyone uses?

 

[smike319]

Ok, so my next question i sthis. How would my stack look. Like how many g would I take at a time at what time of the week. Is there a popular one that everyone uses?

BEWARE!
before you ask a question like that, or any question for that matter, do a search on the board first. you "will" get flamed hard if you don't. the mods spend alot of time answering peoples questions here, and are more than willing to contribute their knowledge and help to us, and is all they ask in return is for you to help yourself, and do a little research before clogging up the board with redundant questions that they have seen and answered a thousand times, day after day after day etc.........get my point?
please take this as a freindly tidbit of info. it will save you a lot of greif, I promise you that.

 

[Cruehead]

I just did my first stack this summer. My suggestion and this is what I did was pick up a bottle of T-1 Final and do 1 suirt 2x daily. Nice light cycle to get your feet wet. I had some good strenght gain, minimal sides and picked up 5lbs. Most importantly I got my feet wet for bigger cycles...

 

[GonnaBeHuge]

BEWARE!
before you ask a question like that, or any question for that matter, do a search on the board first. you "will" get flamed hard if you don't. the mods spend alot of time answering peoples questions here, and are more than willing to contribute their knowledge and help to us, and is all they ask in return is for you to help yourself, and do a little research before clogging up the board with redundant questions that they have seen and answered a thousand times, day after day after day etc.........get my point?
please take this as a freindly tidbit of info. it will save you a lot of greif, I promise you that.

Alright, thanks for the advice I will take it to heart

 

[cookmic5]

Ok, so my next question i sthis. How would my stack look. Like how many g would I take at a time at what time of the week. Is there a popular one that everyone uses?

haha, your lucky smike saw that before Bobo

cm5

 

[GonnaBeHuge]

Okay, after doing some research and using a transdermal with 1 - test and 4AD

With 1 test being 350 ml/day divded into 2 doses. And 4AD 500 mg divded into 2 doses.

How does this look? And where is a good website to get the gear?

 

[smike319]

dude make it easy on yourself and buy it already mixed together in one bottle.
Powernutrition.com
T1-PRO = 120ML per bottle
5g 1-test
2.5g 4ad
$49

LegalGear.com
4g 1-test
6g 4-ad
4g hydroxy test

 

[smike319]

LegalGear.com
4g 1-test
6g 4-ad
4g hydroxy test

it's called "LGP 1-T Hydroxytest
240ml = $79.99

 

[cookmic5]

ummmmm... yeah, good luck with that.....

First of all I pray to god you meant 350 "mg"/day and not "ml." Otherwise your putting around 11 oz. on you at a time. That would be fun to see LMAO, the mere picture of someone dumping a full bottle of T-1Final on themselves is hilarious. Next, even if it was "mg" that you meant I further pray that you meant per week, although that would be a very low dose. My suggestion. Don't do a PH. You need to read more, it may just be that you don't understand the measurements, but what you posted above isn't a good sign. Also, I could fairly easily give you a list of places to order from (hell one has even been metioned in this thread), but the fact that you don't know where to get them is further proof that you haven't read much or researched much around this board.

and in closing I'll ask the question everyone is now dying to know the answer to: "how old are you?"

cm5

 

[cookmic5]

dude make it easy on yourself and buy it already mixed together in one bottle.

looks like the cat is out of the bag....

cm5

 

[smike319]

i never have been good at keepin secrets

 

[cookmic5]

Well it's on you now if I read about some kid buying 56 bottles of T-1 Pro and dumping two a day on himself

cm5

I laugh my ass off every time I picture that.

 

[smike319]

yea that much 1-test at one time could be abit taxing on the body.
your nuts would probably suck up to your asshole, and the only way you'd be able to get them to drop is to **** them out......ouch

 

[cookmic5]

LOFL!

 

[GonnaBeHuge]

Ok cm5 you have me convienced I will do more digging and **** and get back to you. Thanks

 

[ex_banana-eater]

I think methyl 1-test is too strong for a beginner cycle. I would start with a 1-test-4ad combo. You will see incredible gains your first cycle...if nutrition and training is in check.

Excuse me but why is methyl 1-test too strong for a first cycle? Lower doses could be used therefore it won't be strong anymore. I don't understand this sentiment chiefly amongst misguided anabolic users.

 

[cookmic5]

I swear, you are the first person I've seen say that! I'm not even joking right now, I have never seen anyone write that ever, MOD flames or no! Good luck man, honestly, I approach PH's very seriously, when I first started reading this section I was too intimidated to post, and I'm sure I made more than my fair share of dumb posts after that.

I know more than some and still feel like I don't know a damn thing. I hope you really do look around for a while and find what you want and need. I really didn't mean to bust your balls too hard earlier, it was just a funny picture (when you read more you'll understand and come back to this thread and laugh). Really, PH's are seriouse ****, there is no magic pill, beware, and enjoy!

cm5

P.S. If your, hell bent on doing a PH, and your research in both this section and the exercise section, look at Iron Addicts posts, then... you showed more maturity than most in that last post, so try powernutrition.net and look for T-1, go with the 1 spray twice a day, that is a great cycle for a first time, have nolva on hand in case of gyno, get it at lionnutruition.com, for PCT go with 40mg/day the first week and 20 mg/day the second. I say this because you may as well use the nolva if you have it on hand for PCT (assuming no gyno) if you get gyno I think 20 mg/day will take care of it (MOD's correct me if I'm wrong, but that is what I remember)... SERIOUSLY though, RESEARCH like you said, you WILL lean a lot more about what your doing and it WILL benifit you. You may even find that PH's aren't for you right now rather than bumping cal's and protein intake to 2g/day, which you basically have to do if your doing a PH anyways. Good luck, hope I didn't make it too easy for you and you skip your earlier plan!... As a bit of info, I'm not running PH till after I graduate this December because I don't need the extra burden right now.

Damn I feel like a douche for giving you that much info without any real reason, hope I don't get banned

 

[sifu]

Find the thread on chemo's conversion rates for even 10mg a day, that is probably why.

 

[cookmic5]

from the thread intitled "Methyl 1-T, is it for me?":

would it be ok for someone to take methyl 1-test as their first PH cycle?

No.

also there are other threads supporting the same thing. The general idea is that those doing a first cycle don't know how they will respond to PH's much less 1-test and could get into seriouse trouble if the proper precautions are not taken. I would assume, however, if someone was well aware of training, diet, and PH's then 1MT "could" be properly used, however, the severe toxicity of M1T is still a concern and leads to the general conclusion at first timers should not experiment.

Seriously, think about the posts on this board, if M1T was generally recommend to first timers, all hell would break loose.

On the other hand, ex_banana-eater, your knowledge FAR surpasses mine and I would be remise if I didn't acknowledge as much.

Humbly,

cm5

 

[cookmic5]

OK, just to be accurate.

The first post was corteztk1982

and the second was Bobo

cm5

 

[ex_banana-eater]

Find the thread on chemo's conversion rates for even 10mg a day, that is probably why.

I can't find this, link me up.

And I hope you aren't doing this "smooth muscle hypertrophy will equate to skeletal muscle hypertrophy" ****.

 

[sifu]

Nope let me find it.

 

[sifu]

I can't find it. PM chemo, I'm sure he has it somewhere. It is what amount of test it converts to per week at 10mg and 20mg doses. I will say it again, I don't think it should be used by beginners.

 

[cookmic5]

I can't find it either, but why isn't the M1T is toxic and danerous for unknowlegable and unexperienced first timers reason not good enough?

real question, not being an ass, just from what I read this seems to be the current logic and it seems to be appropriate.

cm5

 

[ex_banana-eater]

I can't find it. PM chemo, I'm sure he has it somewhere. It is what amount of test it converts to per week at 10mg and 20mg doses. I will say it again, I don't think it should be used by beginners.

Okay, since hearing something from you twice holds alot of weight in my book

 

[ex_banana-eater]

I can't find it either, but why isn't the M1T is toxic and danerous for unknowlegable and unexperienced first timers reason not good enough?

real question, not being an ass, just from what I read this seems to be the current logic and it seems to be appropriate.

cm5

First of all, unknowledgable users should not be using anything. I did not claim unknowledgable users should use M1T, however I did claim first time users could use it.

Liver toxic? See Below:

Lancet 1979 Nov 24;2(8152):1120-3, Hepatic angiosarcoma associated with androgenic-anabolic steroids. Falk H, Thomas LB, Popper H, Ishak KG.

J Gastroenterol 2000;35(7):557-62, Multiple hepatic adenomas caused by long-term administration of androgenic steroids for aplastic anemia in association with familial adenomatous polyposis. Nakao A, Sakagami K, Nakata Y, Komazawa K, Amimoto T, Nakashima K, Isozaki H, Takakura N, Tanaka N.

J Pharmacol Toxicol Methods 1995 Aug;33(4):187-95, Toxic effects of anabolic-androgenic steroids in primary rat hepatic cell cultures. Welder AA, Robertson JW, Melchert RB.

Arch Toxicol 1999 Nov;73(8-9):465-72, Evaluation of acute and chronic hepatotoxic effects exerted by anabolic-androgenic steroid stanozolol in adult male rats. Boada LD, Zumbado M, Torres S, Lopez A, Diaz-Chico BN, Cabrera JJ, Luzardo OP.

Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1999 Feb;31(2):243-50, Rat liver lysosomal and mitochondrial activities are modified by anabolic-androgenic steroids. Molano F, Saborido A, Delgado J, Moran M, Megias A.

Clin J Sport Med 1999 Jan;9(1):34-9, Anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity: is it overstated? Dickerman RD, Pertusi RM, Zachariah NY, Dufour DR, McConathy WJ.

Int J Sports Med 1996 Aug;17(6):429-33, Body composition, cardiovascular risk factors and liver function in long-term androgenic-anabolic steroids using bodybuilders three months after drug withdrawal. Hartgens F, Kuipers H, Wijnen JA, Keizer HA.





What is the difference on the liver by a first time user running this compound and a experienced but non methylated steroid user? None in regards to liver toxicity.

 

[smike319]

cookmic5.........your a whore J/K
you provided this guy with good sound advise on where to get what he was originally looking for exactly how much to use, and what to take for PCT. good show!

ex_banana-eater, what do you recommend for liver support? i've been seeing some say that milk thistle is a crock, in not so many words.

 

[GonnaBeHuge]

Ok, I know I am not ex banana-eater. But I heard the same thing 'bout the milk thistle. But I been told that you should take 'bout 450 mg of milk thistle in a day. I use the GNC Milk Thistle Standard.

Ilive in Canada, so it might be diffiernt than you. Plus GNC has a good Liver Support formula from articles I read.

Peace

 

[smike319]

"bigpetefox", name says it all, takes 1g of milk thistle a day. there are various opinions on how much you should take that are all over the map. maybe ex_banana-eater will grace us with his presence and knowledge again to clear this up

 

[cookmic5]

cookmic5.........your a whore J/K

yeah, I can really slut it up sometimes

What is the difference on the liver by a first time user running this compound and a experienced but non methylated steroid user? None in regards to liver toxicity.

so let me get this straight, because I want to be sure that I'm understanding you. If you take a 1-test transdermal that absorbs 10mg of 1test then that is no less toxic than taking 10mg M1T, so long as the "mg" absorbtion is constant. right? So adding they methyl group does not in fact make it more toxic?

what do you recommend for liver support?

I always though MT was the dominant choice, but you cold also apparently take R+ALA, ALA, N-Acetyl Cysteine, or hawthorne berry.

Or take them all.... that could be fun!.... JK

I did not claim unknowledgable users should use M1T, however I did claim first time users could use it.

You have read many of the posts on this board, you know exactly what your doing as far a supplements, PH's, and steroids go, how many first time users on this board have you seen that would sincerely be considered knowledgable enough to use a PH, much less M1T. 20%? 30%? less? more? I imagine the standard thought would be to keep M1T for a second cycle once the person gets an understanding of just what a PH can do and how seriously it must be approached. M1T could be much too appealing to those first timers and newbies as a quick fix because of its shortened cycle length and pill form, at that point it becomes dangerous. It may not be necessary, I agree with you, if someone is knowledgeable enough and has done their research and they're committed to a solid diet and training, then I guess M1T would be just as good an option as any other. I look at it more from the social view point, where you learn to crawl before you walk, than the purely scientific.

humbly

cm5

 

[ex_banana-eater]

so let me get this straight, because I want to be sure that I'm understanding you. If you take a 1-test transdermal that absorbs 10mg of 1test then that is no less toxic than taking 10mg M1T, so long as the "mg" absorbtion is constant. right? So adding they methyl group does not in fact make it more toxic?

No. I let me draw it out more clearly

User 1, No experience
User 2, Various 1-test and 4-ad cycles, although has not used any methylated compounds.

They both decide to do a methyl-1T cycle.

The liver toxicity would be equal to each of them, so it does not matter what their cycle experience was in regards to effect on the liver if the same doses were used. Infact, a person who has previously used anabolics may need an even higher dose of methyl-1-test to get good gains which would mean more liver toxicity. But that last addition is beside the point.


You have read many of the posts on this board, you know exactly what your doing as far a supplements, PH's, and steroids go, how many first time users on this board have you seen that would sincerely be considered knowledgable enough to use a PH, much less M1T. 20%? 30%? less? more? I imagine the standard thought would be to keep M1T for a second cycle once the person gets an understanding of just what a PH can do and how seriously it must be approached. M1T could be much too appealing to those first timers and newbies as a quick fix because of its shortened cycle length and pill form, at that point it becomes dangerous. It may not be necessary, I agree with you, if someone is knowledgeable enough and has done their research and they're committed to a solid diet and training, then I guess M1T would be just as good an option as any other. I look at it more from the social view point, where you learn to crawl before you walk, than the purely scientific.

I personally believe alot of people, whether they've used androgens or not before are not ready. It's not my decision though. That's why people set up dosage guidelines online. Even those without any androgen experience they will at least follow correct dosage guidelines, and remain fairly safe.

 

[cookmic5]

ex_banana_eater, thankyou, I see your point and it makes sense. We can't really control what people do or use, just offer input to make it safe. Using M1T if done properly would be no more toxic than 1-test trans used properly. I appreciate your time, and I believe you've cleared me up on something I was "misguided" on.

Thanks again

cm5