Good PH Stack for the Buck

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  1. I swear, you are the first person I've seen say that! I'm not even joking right now, I have never seen anyone write that ever, MOD flames or no! Good luck man, honestly, I approach PH's very seriously, when I first started reading this section I was too intimidated to post, and I'm sure I made more than my fair share of dumb posts after that.

    I know more than some and still feel like I don't know a damn thing. I hope you really do look around for a while and find what you want and need. I really didn't mean to bust your balls too hard earlier, it was just a funny picture (when you read more you'll understand and come back to this thread and laugh). Really, PH's are seriouse ****, there is no magic pill, beware, and enjoy!

    cm5

    P.S. If your, hell bent on doing a PH, and your research in both this section and the exercise section, look at Iron Addicts posts, then... you showed more maturity than most in that last post, so try powernutrition.net and look for T-1, go with the 1 spray twice a day, that is a great cycle for a first time, have nolva on hand in case of gyno, get it at lionnutruition.com, for PCT go with 40mg/day the first week and 20 mg/day the second. I say this because you may as well use the nolva if you have it on hand for PCT (assuming no gyno) if you get gyno I think 20 mg/day will take care of it (MOD's correct me if I'm wrong, but that is what I remember)... SERIOUSLY though, RESEARCH like you said, you WILL lean a lot more about what your doing and it WILL benifit you. You may even find that PH's aren't for you right now rather than bumping cal's and protein intake to 2g/day, which you basically have to do if your doing a PH anyways. Good luck, hope I didn't make it too easy for you and you skip your earlier plan!... As a bit of info, I'm not running PH till after I graduate this December because I don't need the extra burden right now.

    Damn I feel like a douche for giving you that much info without any real reason, hope I don't get banned


  2. Find the thread on chemo's conversion rates for even 10mg a day, that is probably why.
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  3. from the thread intitled "Methyl 1-T, is it for me?":

    would it be ok for someone to take methyl 1-test as their first PH cycle?
    No.
    also there are other threads supporting the same thing. The general idea is that those doing a first cycle don't know how they will respond to PH's much less 1-test and could get into seriouse trouble if the proper precautions are not taken. I would assume, however, if someone was well aware of training, diet, and PH's then 1MT "could" be properly used, however, the severe toxicity of M1T is still a concern and leads to the general conclusion at first timers should not experiment.

    Seriously, think about the posts on this board, if M1T was generally recommend to first timers, all hell would break loose.

    On the other hand, ex_banana-eater, your knowledge FAR surpasses mine and I would be remise if I didn't acknowledge as much.

    Humbly,

    cm5

  4. OK, just to be accurate.

    The first post was corteztk1982

    and the second was Bobo

    cm5

  5. Originally posted by sifu
    Find the thread on chemo's conversion rates for even 10mg a day, that is probably why.
    I can't find this, link me up.

    And I hope you aren't doing this "smooth muscle hypertrophy will equate to skeletal muscle hypertrophy" ****.
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  6. Nope let me find it.

  7. I can't find it. PM chemo, I'm sure he has it somewhere. It is what amount of test it converts to per week at 10mg and 20mg doses. I will say it again, I don't think it should be used by beginners.

  8. I can't find it either, but why isn't the M1T is toxic and danerous for unknowlegable and unexperienced first timers reason not good enough?

    real question, not being an ass, just from what I read this seems to be the current logic and it seems to be appropriate.

    cm5

  9. Originally posted by sifu
    I can't find it. PM chemo, I'm sure he has it somewhere. It is what amount of test it converts to per week at 10mg and 20mg doses. I will say it again, I don't think it should be used by beginners.
    Okay, since hearing something from you twice holds alot of weight in my book

  10. Originally posted by cookmic5
    I can't find it either, but why isn't the M1T is toxic and danerous for unknowlegable and unexperienced first timers reason not good enough?

    real question, not being an ass, just from what I read this seems to be the current logic and it seems to be appropriate.

    cm5
    First of all, unknowledgable users should not be using anything. I did not claim unknowledgable users should use M1T, however I did claim first time users could use it.

    Liver toxic? See Below:

    Lancet 1979 Nov 24;2(8152):1120-3, Hepatic angiosarcoma associated with androgenic-anabolic steroids. Falk H, Thomas LB, Popper H, Ishak KG.

    J Gastroenterol 2000;35(7):557-62, Multiple hepatic adenomas caused by long-term administration of androgenic steroids for aplastic anemia in association with familial adenomatous polyposis. Nakao A, Sakagami K, Nakata Y, Komazawa K, Amimoto T, Nakashima K, Isozaki H, Takakura N, Tanaka N.

    J Pharmacol Toxicol Methods 1995 Aug;33(4):187-95, Toxic effects of anabolic-androgenic steroids in primary rat hepatic cell cultures. Welder AA, Robertson JW, Melchert RB.

    Arch Toxicol 1999 Nov;73(8-9):465-72, Evaluation of acute and chronic hepatotoxic effects exerted by anabolic-androgenic steroid stanozolol in adult male rats. Boada LD, Zumbado M, Torres S, Lopez A, Diaz-Chico BN, Cabrera JJ, Luzardo OP.

    Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1999 Feb;31(2):243-50, Rat liver lysosomal and mitochondrial activities are modified by anabolic-androgenic steroids. Molano F, Saborido A, Delgado J, Moran M, Megias A.

    Clin J Sport Med 1999 Jan;9(1):34-9, Anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity: is it overstated? Dickerman RD, Pertusi RM, Zachariah NY, Dufour DR, McConathy WJ.

    Int J Sports Med 1996 Aug;17(6):429-33, Body composition, cardiovascular risk factors and liver function in long-term androgenic-anabolic steroids using bodybuilders three months after drug withdrawal. Hartgens F, Kuipers H, Wijnen JA, Keizer HA.





    What is the difference on the liver by a first time user running this compound and a experienced but non methylated steroid user? None in regards to liver toxicity.

  11. cookmic5.........your a whore J/K
    you provided this guy with good sound advise on where to get what he was originally looking for exactly how much to use, and what to take for PCT. good show!

    ex_banana-eater, what do you recommend for liver support? i've been seeing some say that milk thistle is a crock, in not so many words.

  12. Ok, I know I am not ex banana-eater. But I heard the same thing 'bout the milk thistle. But I been told that you should take 'bout 450 mg of milk thistle in a day. I use the GNC Milk Thistle Standard.

    Ilive in Canada, so it might be diffiernt than you. Plus GNC has a good Liver Support formula from articles I read.

    Peace

  13. "bigpetefox", name says it all, takes 1g of milk thistle a day. there are various opinions on how much you should take that are all over the map. maybe ex_banana-eater will grace us with his presence and knowledge again to clear this up

  14. cookmic5.........your a whore J/K
    yeah, I can really slut it up sometimes

    What is the difference on the liver by a first time user running this compound and a experienced but non methylated steroid user? None in regards to liver toxicity.
    so let me get this straight, because I want to be sure that I'm understanding you. If you take a 1-test transdermal that absorbs 10mg of 1test then that is no less toxic than taking 10mg M1T, so long as the "mg" absorbtion is constant. right? So adding they methyl group does not in fact make it more toxic?

    what do you recommend for liver support?
    I always though MT was the dominant choice, but you cold also apparently take R+ALA, ALA, N-Acetyl Cysteine, or hawthorne berry.

    Or take them all.... that could be fun!.... JK

    I did not claim unknowledgable users should use M1T, however I did claim first time users could use it.
    You have read many of the posts on this board, you know exactly what your doing as far a supplements, PH's, and steroids go, how many first time users on this board have you seen that would sincerely be considered knowledgable enough to use a PH, much less M1T. 20%? 30%? less? more? I imagine the standard thought would be to keep M1T for a second cycle once the person gets an understanding of just what a PH can do and how seriously it must be approached. M1T could be much too appealing to those first timers and newbies as a quick fix because of its shortened cycle length and pill form, at that point it becomes dangerous. It may not be necessary, I agree with you, if someone is knowledgeable enough and has done their research and they're committed to a solid diet and training, then I guess M1T would be just as good an option as any other. I look at it more from the social view point, where you learn to crawl before you walk, than the purely scientific.

    humbly

    cm5

  15. so let me get this straight, because I want to be sure that I'm understanding you. If you take a 1-test transdermal that absorbs 10mg of 1test then that is no less toxic than taking 10mg M1T, so long as the "mg" absorbtion is constant. right? So adding they methyl group does not in fact make it more toxic?

    No. I let me draw it out more clearly

    User 1, No experience
    User 2, Various 1-test and 4-ad cycles, although has not used any methylated compounds.

    They both decide to do a methyl-1T cycle.

    The liver toxicity would be equal to each of them, so it does not matter what their cycle experience was in regards to effect on the liver if the same doses were used. Infact, a person who has previously used anabolics may need an even higher dose of methyl-1-test to get good gains which would mean more liver toxicity. But that last addition is beside the point.


    You have read many of the posts on this board, you know exactly what your doing as far a supplements, PH's, and steroids go, how many first time users on this board have you seen that would sincerely be considered knowledgable enough to use a PH, much less M1T. 20%? 30%? less? more? I imagine the standard thought would be to keep M1T for a second cycle once the person gets an understanding of just what a PH can do and how seriously it must be approached. M1T could be much too appealing to those first timers and newbies as a quick fix because of its shortened cycle length and pill form, at that point it becomes dangerous. It may not be necessary, I agree with you, if someone is knowledgeable enough and has done their research and they're committed to a solid diet and training, then I guess M1T would be just as good an option as any other. I look at it more from the social view point, where you learn to crawl before you walk, than the purely scientific.

    I personally believe alot of people, whether they've used androgens or not before are not ready. It's not my decision though. That's why people set up dosage guidelines online. Even those without any androgen experience they will at least follow correct dosage guidelines, and remain fairly safe.

  16. ex_banana_eater, thankyou, I see your point and it makes sense. We can't really control what people do or use, just offer input to make it safe. Using M1T if done properly would be no more toxic than 1-test trans used properly. I appreciate your time, and I believe you've cleared me up on something I was "misguided" on.

    Thanks again

    cm5
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