Brady Could be the greatest ever

Page 3 of 6 First 12345 ... Last

  1. Quote Originally Posted by Kramer View Post
    If he gets the ball off quicker then it should benefit his stats and performance more so than Brady. It didn't... which sort of proves the point even more.
    How so? I feel that the extra time in the pocket can allow your receiver to complete his route and get open. Weren't we discussing o-lines and not the better QB???


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Kramer View Post
    Not if he ties and/or beats those who are deemed the greatest in terms of stats (on a yearly basis, not career) and Superbowl wins.
    at this point in his career it is still too early. However within the next 5 years, if he is healthy, and has won another super bowl or two, its his.
    Mr. Supps Board Rep
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by The_Reverend View Post
    Where did all that come from? I wasn't arguing which QB is better.
    Maybe you weren't, but they sentence i responded to could have been taken in different ways. Anyway, a solid offensive line absolutely adds a definative dynamic to any QB's abilities in general, however imho quarterbacks' are defined in their ability to make good decisions while under pressure.

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  4. Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    Maybe you weren't, but they sentence i responded to could have been taken in different ways. Anyway, a solid offensive line absolutely adds a definative dynamic to any QB's abilities in general, however imho quarterbacks' are defined in their ability to make good decisions while under pressure.
    Well said. I just think his o-line often gets overlooked.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by The_Reverend View Post
    How so? I feel that the extra time in the pocket can allow your receiver to complete his route and get open. Weren't we discussing o-lines and not the better QB???
    Because Manning and Brady have outstanding lines and watching both teams (have to love direct tv) for years, I conclude that Indy's line is better (and so do the stats). You can credit O-Lines all you want but there isn't much of a difference between the two. New England doesnt allow far greater time than Indy does at all. In fact, its the opposite. Indy gives up less sacks with a less mobile QB. They rank top 5 every year and have been ranked number 1 in both 2005 and 2006.

    Now add that on top of a quicker release from Manning (which is the one of the most fundamental aspects of a QB) and Manning should have better stats. He doesn't (this year). When he was at his best, he broke an NFL record. Brady broke it and its not because their line gave him more time.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Because Manning and Brady have outstanding lines and watching both teams (have to love direct tv) for years, I conclude that Indy's line is better (and so do the stats). You can credit O-Lines all you want but there isn't much of a difference between the two. New England doesnt allow far greater time than Indy does at all. In fact, its the opposite. Indy gives up less sacks with a less mobile QB. They rank top 5 every year and have been ranked number 1 in both 2005 and 2006.

    Now add that on top of a quicker release from Manning (which is the one of the most fundamental aspects of a QB) and Manning should have better stats. He doesn't (this year). When he was at his best, he broke an NFL record. Brady broke it and its not because their line gave him more time.

    Again, I'm not trying to discuss which QB is better. That's a toss up in my opinion. I guess what I'm trying to say is the O-lines often don't get the credit they deserve. Just think back to the 90's Dallas team when Emmitt Smith would buy all of his linemen a Rolex as a sign of appreciation. I don't hear of that happening anymore.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by The_Reverend View Post
    Just think back to the 90's Dallas team when Emmitt Smith would buy all of his linemen a Rolex as a sign of appreciation. I don't hear of that happening anymore.
    Damn emmitt i want a rolex!......actually i'll just take a little trip into the city and get me a nice cheap knock-off.

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  8. Quote Originally Posted by The_Reverend View Post
    Again, I'm not trying to discuss which QB is better. That's a toss up in my opinion. I guess what I'm trying to say is the O-lines often don't get the credit they deserve. Just think back to the 90's Dallas team when Emmitt Smith would buy all of his linemen a Rolex as a sign of appreciation. I don't hear of that happening anymore.
    Wow, never knew that. That's some above & beyond show of appreciation! Great guy.
    NSCA - CSCS

  9. I think a few things are being lost here. Firstly, up until this year Brady was viewed as a fantastic clutch player, but not necessarily a "QB's QB". Reggie Miller was also a fantastic clutch player, but that does not mean he was better than Michael Jordan.

    Secondly, the Patriots have won 3 Super Bowls, not Tom Brady. The old "too much credit when they win, and too much blame when they lose" adage applies here. Last time I checked, Tom Brady plays one position on one side of the ball.

    Thirdly, Manning still owns Brady as it pertains to records. As it stands, although Brady's 2007 broke Manning's single-season TD record, many other records Manning set that year still stand (including highest passer rating, most consecutive games with at least 2 and 4 TDs respectively) . He is also on pace to break every major statistic for a QB. Completions, passes, yards, TDs, and he already holds the 2nd highest passer rating for a career and most games with a perfect passer rating. Despite his fantastic year, Manning is still a better statistical QB. As I said, the Patriots and not Tom Brady beat Indy so many times.

    Fourthly, I am not quick to anoint anybody the 'best' just yet. I am sick of hearing "the next Gretzky" or "the next Jordan" only to see players like Lindros, Daigle, Kwame Brown, and their ilk fizzle and drop. Now, T.Brady is already approaching unparalleled success, so I am not insinuating he is hack (obviously) just that a more tempered response is necessary.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    I think a few things are being lost here. Firstly, up until this year Brady was viewed as a fantastic clutch player, but not necessarily a "QB's QB". Reggie Miller was also a fantastic clutch player, but that does not mean he was better than Michael Jordan.

    Secondly, the Patriots have won 3 Super Bowls, not Tom Brady. The old "too much credit when they win, and too much blame when they lose" adage applies here. Last time I checked, Tom Brady plays one position on one side of the ball.

    Thirdly, Manning still owns Brady as it pertains to records. As it stands, although Brady's 2007 broke Manning's single-season TD record, many other records Manning set that year still stand (including highest passer rating, most consecutive games with at least 2 and 4 TDs respectively) . He is also on pace to break every major statistic for a QB. Completions, passes, yards, TDs, and he already holds the 2nd highest passer rating for a career and most games with a perfect passer rating. Despite his fantastic year, Manning is still a better statistical QB. As I said, the Patriots and not Tom Brady beat Indy so many times.

    Fourthly, I am not quick to anoint anybody the 'best' just yet. I am sick of hearing "the next Gretzky" or "the next Jordan" only to see players like Lindros, Daigle, Kwame Brown, and their ilk fizzle and drop. Now, T.Brady is already approaching unparalleled success, so I am not insinuating he is hack (obviously) just that a more tempered response is necessary.
    Everyone here has good posts, even perspectives I don't necessarily agree with have been delivered and expressed with great point of views.
    NSCA - CSCS

  11. agreed with above
    Mr. Supps Board Rep

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    I think a few things are being lost here.
    I'm not losing anything. Its' my perspective on who the best QB is....
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by The_Reverend View Post
    Again, I'm not trying to discuss which QB is better. That's a toss up in my opinion. I guess what I'm trying to say is the O-lines often don't get the credit they deserve. Just think back to the 90's Dallas team when Emmitt Smith would buy all of his linemen a Rolex as a sign of appreciation. I don't hear of that happening anymore.
    And what I'm saying is its ALL relative....Great QB's have great lines for the most part. That is a given... What those QB's DO with those lines determine what I think of them. This year is the first time Brady has had REAL talent at WR....and his numbers show it. So for me, he can put up the numbers like the Mannings, Marino's, Elways, etc...AND he can win the big one as he done for 3 times. You can't ask for any more out of QB.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    And what I'm saying is its ALL relative....Great QB's have great lines for the most part. That is a given... What those QB's DO with those lines determine what I think of them. This year is the first time Brady has had REAL talent at WR....and his numbers show it. So for me, he can put up the numbers like the Mannings, Marino's, Elways, etc...AND he can win the big one as he done for 3 times. You can't ask for any more out of QB.
    I couldn't have said it better myself.....bravo

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  15. Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I'm not losing anything. Its' my perspective on who the best QB is....
    It was not directed at you specifically, but the whole thread. My point was that the Patriots, not Tom Brady, and the Colts and not Peyton Manning have won Super Bowls. Fact is, Brady has had one stellar statistical season, and has been the best player on the best organization in football. In my view, this does not directly equate to him being the greatest.

    I just don't think Bowls alone equate to greatness, or people would have brought up Bradshaw more in this context.

    For my money, if I am a GM on an expansion team and I am given the choice between Manning and Brady, I take Manning. The man hasn't thrown less than 26 TDs in any season. His 2004 season, despite losing that record to T.Brady, is still better than Brady's 2007. Either way though, I'll reserve my judgment until they both retire.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    And what I'm saying is its ALL relative....Great QB's have great lines for the most part. That is a given... What those QB's DO with those lines determine what I think of them. This year is the first time Brady has had REAL talent at WR....and his numbers show it. So for me, he can put up the numbers like the Mannings, Marino's, Elways, etc...AND he can win the big one as he done for 3 times. You can't ask for any more out of QB.
    THAT I can agree with. I'm still not sold on Brady being the best ever but he might be after this weekend.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    It was not directed at you specifically, but the whole thread. My point was that the Patriots, not Tom Brady, and the Colts and not Peyton Manning have won Super Bowls. Fact is, Brady has had one stellar statistical season, and has been the best player on the best organization in football. In my view, this does not directly equate to him being the greatest.
    No, winning 3 Superbowls, going on his 4th WHILE breaking records does.

    Brady won 3 with less offensive talent than other "greats" and its not because they had a hall of fame defense either. Give him offensive talent and he'll break more records.

    I just don't think Bowls alone equate to greatness, or people would have brought up Bradshaw more in this context.
    He has been.

    For my money, if I am a GM on an expansion team and I am given the choice between Manning and Brady, I take Manning. The man hasn't thrown less than 26 TDs in any season. His 2004 season, despite losing that record to T.Brady, is still better than Brady's 2007. Either way though, I'll reserve my judgment until they both retire.
    Thats because there is a difference between throwing to Harrison, Wayne, Pollard and throwing to Deion Branch and an aging Troy Brown (earlier).

    I take Brady. Given the same talent that surrounds Manning, he would flourish the same if not better. He's already proved that this year.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  18. I completely agree that now that brady has some serious offensive talent (Welker,Moss,Stallworth,Gafney ) his overall abilities and potential are really starting to surface. He put up good numbers with a significantly less talented offense in recent years while winning 3 superbowls in the process.

    IMHO if brady had been within the same highly talented offense structure that manning or any of the other greats had from the beginning many of those coveted QB records may have belonged to brady himself.......currently, and/or in the end.

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  19. Are you secretly a pats fan there Jer?

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  20. Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    No, winning 3 Superbowls, going on his 4th WHILE breaking records does.
    See below.

    Brady won 3 with less offensive talent than other "greats" and its not because they had a hall of fame defense either. Give him offensive talent and he'll break more records.
    Once again, The Patriots won 3 with less collective Offensive talent, but a team game that creates synergy. Bellichek and Brady are the perfect storm, Bellichek's record without Brady proves as such. Now, this pre-Brady mediocoreness does not necessarily validate Brady as the greatest, but bolsters the point that he fits perfectly within Bellichek's ideom and game scheme.

    He has been.
    Really? I think one person mentioned him in a passive fashion. The majority of the discussion has been about Brady and Montana.



    Thats because there is a difference between throwing to Harrison, Wayne, Pollard and throwing to Deion Branch and an aging Troy Brown (earlier).

    I take Brady. Given the same talent that surrounds Manning, he would flourish the same if not better. He's already proved that this year.
    He has had one stellar offensive year, while Peyton threw 26 TDs as a rookie and has never thrown less. This illuminates my point perfectly, Peyton is instant offense, and Brady is instant clutch. Given the right field position, right calls, and right teammates, Brady has been able to orchestrate clutch drives. This does not mean he is the 'greatest' just that he fits impeccably in the system he plays in. This in and of itself is a great QB trait, but does not mean he is the greatest.

    How do you explain Peyton's instant melding and success in his rookie year?

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    How do you explain Peyton's instant melding and success in his rookie year?
    They are both great in so many aspects of the game overall, but come'on mullet manning was basically birthed into an offensive juggernaut. Its hard not to flourish in that gifted environment with the talent he has.

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  22. Meh, you're right. My point is that the fickle nature of NFL, over all other professional leagues, makes me weary in anointing anybody anything until the conclusion of their career.

    Though I understand the thought process going on here, I don't agree.

    I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree (that and I am way too sick to be expending energy on this!)

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    Meh, you're right. My point is that the fickle nature of NFL, over all other professional leagues, makes me weary in anointing anybody anything until the conclusion of their career.

    Though I understand the thought process going on here, I don't agree.

    I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree (that and I am way too sick to be expending energy on this!)
    Agreed. Well get well soon buddy......we've got a superbowl to watch!

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  24. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    See below.
    I read below. Still doesnt change anything.


    Really? I think one person mentioned him in a passive fashion. The majority of the discussion has been about Brady and Montana.
    Probably because most people also remember the Steel Curtain being a large factor.





    He has had one stellar offensive year, while Peyton threw 26 TDs as a rookie and has never thrown less. This illuminates my point perfectly, Peyton is instant offense, and Brady is instant clutch. Given the right field position, right calls, and right teammates, Brady has been able to orchestrate clutch drives. This does not mean he is the 'greatest' just that he fits impeccably in the system he plays in. This in and of itself is a great QB trait, but does not mean he is the greatest.

    How do you explain Peyton's instant melding and success in his rookie year?

    Once again, give the same amount of talent to Brady and he is just as good as Manning in terms of numbers and even better in the clutch.

    How can I explain his instant "success"? Well 26 TD's is good but 28 INT's is even better. I could care less about rookie seasons....

    I care more about 4806 yards, 50 TD's, 8 INT's with 3 going on 4 rings.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    Are you secretly a pats fan there Jer?
    I hate everything Boston. Does that help?
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. The Greatest Invention EVER For Recipes
    By LG Sciences in forum Recipes
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-29-2008, 01:34 PM
  2. Replies: 39
    Last Post: 05-15-2007, 09:22 PM
  3. Bulk Powder Aficionados: The Greatest Mixer Ever!
    By Beowulf in forum Supplements
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-17-2005, 08:50 PM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-28-2005, 03:18 AM
Log in
Log in