Brady Could be the greatest ever

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  1. agreed with above


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    I think a few things are being lost here.
    I'm not losing anything. Its' my perspective on who the best QB is....
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by The_Reverend View Post
    Again, I'm not trying to discuss which QB is better. That's a toss up in my opinion. I guess what I'm trying to say is the O-lines often don't get the credit they deserve. Just think back to the 90's Dallas team when Emmitt Smith would buy all of his linemen a Rolex as a sign of appreciation. I don't hear of that happening anymore.
    And what I'm saying is its ALL relative....Great QB's have great lines for the most part. That is a given... What those QB's DO with those lines determine what I think of them. This year is the first time Brady has had REAL talent at WR....and his numbers show it. So for me, he can put up the numbers like the Mannings, Marino's, Elways, etc...AND he can win the big one as he done for 3 times. You can't ask for any more out of QB.
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  4. Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    And what I'm saying is its ALL relative....Great QB's have great lines for the most part. That is a given... What those QB's DO with those lines determine what I think of them. This year is the first time Brady has had REAL talent at WR....and his numbers show it. So for me, he can put up the numbers like the Mannings, Marino's, Elways, etc...AND he can win the big one as he done for 3 times. You can't ask for any more out of QB.
    I couldn't have said it better myself.....bravo

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  5. Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I'm not losing anything. Its' my perspective on who the best QB is....
    It was not directed at you specifically, but the whole thread. My point was that the Patriots, not Tom Brady, and the Colts and not Peyton Manning have won Super Bowls. Fact is, Brady has had one stellar statistical season, and has been the best player on the best organization in football. In my view, this does not directly equate to him being the greatest.

    I just don't think Bowls alone equate to greatness, or people would have brought up Bradshaw more in this context.

    For my money, if I am a GM on an expansion team and I am given the choice between Manning and Brady, I take Manning. The man hasn't thrown less than 26 TDs in any season. His 2004 season, despite losing that record to T.Brady, is still better than Brady's 2007. Either way though, I'll reserve my judgment until they both retire.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    And what I'm saying is its ALL relative....Great QB's have great lines for the most part. That is a given... What those QB's DO with those lines determine what I think of them. This year is the first time Brady has had REAL talent at WR....and his numbers show it. So for me, he can put up the numbers like the Mannings, Marino's, Elways, etc...AND he can win the big one as he done for 3 times. You can't ask for any more out of QB.
    THAT I can agree with. I'm still not sold on Brady being the best ever but he might be after this weekend.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    It was not directed at you specifically, but the whole thread. My point was that the Patriots, not Tom Brady, and the Colts and not Peyton Manning have won Super Bowls. Fact is, Brady has had one stellar statistical season, and has been the best player on the best organization in football. In my view, this does not directly equate to him being the greatest.
    No, winning 3 Superbowls, going on his 4th WHILE breaking records does.

    Brady won 3 with less offensive talent than other "greats" and its not because they had a hall of fame defense either. Give him offensive talent and he'll break more records.

    I just don't think Bowls alone equate to greatness, or people would have brought up Bradshaw more in this context.
    He has been.

    For my money, if I am a GM on an expansion team and I am given the choice between Manning and Brady, I take Manning. The man hasn't thrown less than 26 TDs in any season. His 2004 season, despite losing that record to T.Brady, is still better than Brady's 2007. Either way though, I'll reserve my judgment until they both retire.
    Thats because there is a difference between throwing to Harrison, Wayne, Pollard and throwing to Deion Branch and an aging Troy Brown (earlier).

    I take Brady. Given the same talent that surrounds Manning, he would flourish the same if not better. He's already proved that this year.
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  8. I completely agree that now that brady has some serious offensive talent (Welker,Moss,Stallworth,Gafney ) his overall abilities and potential are really starting to surface. He put up good numbers with a significantly less talented offense in recent years while winning 3 superbowls in the process.

    IMHO if brady had been within the same highly talented offense structure that manning or any of the other greats had from the beginning many of those coveted QB records may have belonged to brady himself.......currently, and/or in the end.

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  9. Are you secretly a pats fan there Jer?

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  10. Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    No, winning 3 Superbowls, going on his 4th WHILE breaking records does.
    See below.

    Brady won 3 with less offensive talent than other "greats" and its not because they had a hall of fame defense either. Give him offensive talent and he'll break more records.
    Once again, The Patriots won 3 with less collective Offensive talent, but a team game that creates synergy. Bellichek and Brady are the perfect storm, Bellichek's record without Brady proves as such. Now, this pre-Brady mediocoreness does not necessarily validate Brady as the greatest, but bolsters the point that he fits perfectly within Bellichek's ideom and game scheme.

    He has been.
    Really? I think one person mentioned him in a passive fashion. The majority of the discussion has been about Brady and Montana.



    Thats because there is a difference between throwing to Harrison, Wayne, Pollard and throwing to Deion Branch and an aging Troy Brown (earlier).

    I take Brady. Given the same talent that surrounds Manning, he would flourish the same if not better. He's already proved that this year.
    He has had one stellar offensive year, while Peyton threw 26 TDs as a rookie and has never thrown less. This illuminates my point perfectly, Peyton is instant offense, and Brady is instant clutch. Given the right field position, right calls, and right teammates, Brady has been able to orchestrate clutch drives. This does not mean he is the 'greatest' just that he fits impeccably in the system he plays in. This in and of itself is a great QB trait, but does not mean he is the greatest.

    How do you explain Peyton's instant melding and success in his rookie year?

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    How do you explain Peyton's instant melding and success in his rookie year?
    They are both great in so many aspects of the game overall, but come'on mullet manning was basically birthed into an offensive juggernaut. Its hard not to flourish in that gifted environment with the talent he has.

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  12. Meh, you're right. My point is that the fickle nature of NFL, over all other professional leagues, makes me weary in anointing anybody anything until the conclusion of their career.

    Though I understand the thought process going on here, I don't agree.

    I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree (that and I am way too sick to be expending energy on this!)

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    Meh, you're right. My point is that the fickle nature of NFL, over all other professional leagues, makes me weary in anointing anybody anything until the conclusion of their career.

    Though I understand the thought process going on here, I don't agree.

    I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree (that and I am way too sick to be expending energy on this!)
    Agreed. Well get well soon buddy......we've got a superbowl to watch!

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  14. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    See below.
    I read below. Still doesnt change anything.


    Really? I think one person mentioned him in a passive fashion. The majority of the discussion has been about Brady and Montana.
    Probably because most people also remember the Steel Curtain being a large factor.





    He has had one stellar offensive year, while Peyton threw 26 TDs as a rookie and has never thrown less. This illuminates my point perfectly, Peyton is instant offense, and Brady is instant clutch. Given the right field position, right calls, and right teammates, Brady has been able to orchestrate clutch drives. This does not mean he is the 'greatest' just that he fits impeccably in the system he plays in. This in and of itself is a great QB trait, but does not mean he is the greatest.

    How do you explain Peyton's instant melding and success in his rookie year?

    Once again, give the same amount of talent to Brady and he is just as good as Manning in terms of numbers and even better in the clutch.

    How can I explain his instant "success"? Well 26 TD's is good but 28 INT's is even better. I could care less about rookie seasons....

    I care more about 4806 yards, 50 TD's, 8 INT's with 3 going on 4 rings.
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  15. Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    Are you secretly a pats fan there Jer?
    I hate everything Boston. Does that help?
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  16. Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I hate everything Boston. Does that help?
    I had figured as much lol

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  17. Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I read below. Still doesnt change anything.

    Probably because most people also remember the Steel Curtain being a large factor.

    Once again, give the same amount of talent to Brady and he is just as good as Manning in terms of numbers and even better in the clutch.

    How can I explain his instant "success"? Well 26 TD's is good but 28 INT's is even better. I could care less about rookie seasons....

    I care more about 4806 yards, 50 TD's, 8 INT's with 3 going on 4 rings.
    You seem to be overlooking the fact that this is Brady's first impressive offensive season. If he repeats this and wins this Bowl then I would be more inclined to agree with you. You are also attributing Bradshaw's rings to the team game, but simultaneously giving Brady the sole credit for the Patriot's success.

    Once again, Tom Brady plays one position, not the whole team. He has more rings because the Patriots are a better organization than are the Colts. Better draft choices, savvier trading, tighter team philosophy, craftier, etc., Last time I checked T.Brady doesn't play MLB, doesn't field kick and punt returns, doesn't play wide-out or corner, doesn't kick, and doesn't play on the O and D Lines.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    You seem to be overlooking the fact that this is Brady's first impressive offensive season. If he repeats this and wins this Bowl then I would be more inclined to agree with you. You are also attributing Bradshaw's rings to the team game, but simultaneously giving Brady the sole credit for the Patriot's success.

    No, he had some impressive seasons before, just not record setting.


    I am not attributing anything to anyone. I simply said people will probably not mention him because they remember a Hall of Fame defense. I already said he was included before.

    And nobody gave Brady sole credit for anything. I gave him credit, not sole credit. There is a difference.



    Once again, Tom Brady plays one position, not the whole team.
    Once again, it doesn't change anything to me.

    He has more rings because the Patriots are a better organization than are the Colts.
    Or because their QB is better.

    Better draft choices, savvier trading, tighter team philosophy, craftier, etc.,
    Or because their QB is better.


    Last time I checked T.Brady doesn't play MLB, doesn't field kick and punt returns, doesn't play wide-out or corner, doesn't kick, and doesn't play on the O and D Lines.
    You're right, he only throw 50 TD's, 8 INT's and has 3 rings going on 4. Thats enough for me.
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  19. Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    No, he had some impressive seasons before, just not record setting.

    I am not attributing anything to anyone. I simply said people will probably not mention him because they remember a Hall of Fame defense. I already said he was included before.

    And nobody gave Brady sole credit for anything. I gave him credit, not sole credit. There is a difference.

    Once again, it doesn't change anything to me.

    Or because their QB is better.

    Or because their QB is better.

    You're right, he only throw 50 TD's, 8 INT's and has 3 rings going on 4. Thats enough for me.
    Bobo, excuse my ignorance that the QB of each team wins games and/or Superbowls by themselves. I had forgotten. I just remembered Miami's wins under Marino, and the 4 Bowls Atlanta won under Vick.

    Football is a team game, more than any other sport.

    By the way, despite the 50 and 8, Manning's 2004 Season still holds the record for highest passer rating, most consecutive games with at least 2 touchdown passes, most consecutive games with at least 4 touchdown passes, most games with at least 4 touchdown passes. He also holds the record for most career games with a perfect passer rating, as well as a few other records Brady isn't on pace to touch.

    If Manning keeps on pace to break EVERY major statistical category for a QB and gets to the Bowl one or two more times and wins, mentioning him as one of the greats is impossible to deny.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    Bobo, excuse my ignorance that the QB of each team wins games and/or Superbowls by themselves. I had forgotten. I just remembered Miami's wins under Marino, and the 4 Bowls Atlanta won under Vick.
    Where did I say the QB's win by themselves? You seem to work in absolutes when someone doesnt agree with your opinion. All or nothing...sorry, it doesnt work that way. I don't agree with you viewpoint no matter how much you try to be sarcastic and be condescending to those who don't 100% believe in your total team concept. I believe the QB is the most important position on the field and can basically win or lose a game more so than any other position therefore when they win, I give them more credit than anyone. If you don't agree, good for you..have fun with that.



    Football is a team game, more than any other sport.

    Gee thanks for that. I mean its great that you are here to tell us these things.

    By the way, despite the 50 and 8, Manning's 2004 Season still holds the record for highest passer rating, most consecutive games with at least 2 touchdown passes, most consecutive games with at least 4 touchdown passes, most games with at least 4 touchdown passes. He also holds the record for most career games with a perfect passer rating, as well as a few other records Brady isn't on pace to touch.

    Well good for him....doens't change anything for me.


    If Manning keeps on pace to break EVERY major statistical category for a QB and gets to the Bowl one or two more times and wins, mentioning him as one of the greats is impossible to deny.
    IF....



    You can quote your total team concept all you want...you can state as many statistics as you want. I see the same info you do and it doesnt change my opinion at all. I make judgements based on what I deem important, not you. I think Brady is better than Manning, I think if he wins a 4th he is the best ever and I won't be a minority in that thinking. Think what you want, I don't care.
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  21. Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Where did I say the QB's win by themselves? You seem to work in absolutes when someone doesnt agree with your opinion. All or nothing...sorry, it doesnt work that way. I don't agree with you viewpoint no matter how much you try to be sarcastic and be condescending to those who don't 100% believe in your total team concept. I believe the QB is the most important position on the field and can basically win or lose a game more so than any other position therefore when they win, I give them more credit than anyone. If you don't agree, good for you..have fun with that.
    I am confused, so I'll take my leave. You say "where did I say QB's win by themselves?" and then a few sentences later say "the QB can basically win or lose a game more so..". That's like saying "I don't beat my wife, I merely strike her repeatedly".

    I didn't mean to be condescending, but the sarcasm was intended. It seemed necessary as your argumentative style is characterized by ignoring the other's statements and repeating the same points, as if this makes yours right. It doesn't.

    Either way, it's just an opinion that will never be solved between us. I'll never convince you and you'll never convince me.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    I am confused, so I'll take my leave. You say "where did I say QB's win by themselves?" and then a few sentences later say "the QB can basically win or lose a game more so..". That's like saying "I don't beat my wife, I merely strike her repeatedly".

    More so....


    I didn't mean to be condescending, but the sarcasm was intended. It seemed necessary as your argumentative style is characterized by ignoring the other's statements and repeating the same points, as if this makes your right.

    Actually, that's more your style as you seem to think that if someone doesnt agree with your viewpoints you think they ignore your position then elevate that by being sarcastic and condescending. I told you once that its my perspective on who the best QB is and twice told you that your viewpoints haven't changed anything for me. That's not ignoring, that's telling you I don't agree....3 times... So to recap, I don't think a few points are being lost

    I think a few things are being lost here
    ...and I'm not overlooking the fact

    You seem to be overlooking the fact
    and I never thought you to be ignorant

    Bobo, excuse my ignorance

    but if you want to continue with that type of argumentative style, have fun with that.



    Either way, it's just an opinion that will never be solved between us.
    I never tried to solve it. I stated who I believed was the best of all time. You then began lecturing everyone on how they shouldn't associate Superbowl wins with an individuals greatness as if we are all ignorant to the obvious of a team concept. I don't agree...for the 4th time.
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  23. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    but the sarcasm was intended.
    And you wonder why some choose to ignore you.
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  24. lol..I found that last jab funny. You label me sarcastic and condescending, yet, after I leave the argument seeing it's fruitless, you found it necessary to get 'one last' unnecessary slice in.

    I'm not so much interested in your retort, not for childish reasons, just more so this once fairly interesting debate has turned into a pissing match; you made some valid points, as did I, whether you choose to recognize that is of no mind to me. Enjoy the game on Sunday, Bobo.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    lol..I found that last jab funny. You label me sarcastic and condescending, yet, after I leave the argument seeing it's fruitless, you found it necessary to get 'one last' unnecessary slice in.
    Actually its a fact as some chose to put you on their ignore list. Maybe not being sarcastic would help that. I know I have learned form my mistakes in the past...just a thought.


    whether you choose to recognize that is of no mind to me.
    Of course it isn't.
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  26. Probably is. Is the fact that anonymous identities on the internet are ignoring my anonymous identity supposed to bother me? If you're trying to make an effective cutdown you should try another route.

  27. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    Probably is. Is the fact that anonymous identities on the internet are ignoring my anonymous identity supposed to bother me? If you're trying to make an effective cutdown you should try another route.
    I don't think its supposed to bother you but the fact that you get sarcastic seems to point to the fact that it does.

    I am just letting you know that if you weren't as sarcastic/condescedning, maybe the problem of people ignoring you would be solved. Its not a cut down, its a suggestion. Nobody likes being ignored.
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  28. He's probably the greatest winner. Physically not the best... Mentally the best...

  29. Quote Originally Posted by The_Reverend View Post
    THAT I can agree with. I'm still not sold on Brady being the best ever but he might be after this weekend.
    Tom Brady may at some point become the QB with the most superbowls but sorry, NOT the greatest ever. With his offensive line not on par so far tonight, he is just average.

    :bruce3:

  30. fukc the Patriots......18-1! baby
    Armed to the teeth.
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