SEC: The most overrated conference in America. says my friend
- 11-04-2006, 02:49 PM
SEC: The most overrated conference in America. says my friend
this is his argument:
THIS IS NOT MY ARGUMENT, ALTHOUGH I AGREE WITH MOST OF IT THIS YEAR.
Before you people get your panties in a bunch, read the following:
Saying the SEC is the best coference in the country is common among fans in the SEC. The evidence proves otherwise...
Several SEC teams play seven home games a season. They usually bring in a bunch of lousy out-of-conference teams from C-USA, the Sun Belt, or some non-BCS conference. When they do bring in a team from a good conference, its usually a bottom-dweller from that conference. (i.e. Arizona or Duke). As a result of such easy schedules, a number of SEC teams enter conference play undefeated. As a result of that, they're ranked higher than teams with losses (whether those losses came against good teams or not). Then, when all the teams in the conference beat up on each other, they use that as evidence that they're all good teams. Its a self-fulfilling prophesy.
Take LSU for example: When people ask how Auburn and Florida have proven themselves, the answer is usually that they beat LSU. What does beating LSU prove? LSU is ranked in the top 15 because they only have two losses. Aside from their two losses, they haven't beaten a winning team (except Louisiana-Lafayette). LSU hasn't proven that they're good-- they've proven they aren't absolutely horrible by not losing to some of the worst teams in D1. Therefore, beating LSU doesn't prove anything.
The only way one conference can prove superiority over another is by beating teams from the other conferences in question. The Big Ten has done that. Ohio State won at Texas. Michigan won at Notre Dame. The SEC hasn't been able to do that. If anything, its been the opposite. The only team undefeated in SEC play is Arkansas, and they got destroyed at home by USC.
SEC proponentsl argue two things. 1) the non-conference teams they play aren't that bad, and 2) conference games are so tough that they can't afford to play good non-conference teams.
1) SEC fans will point to the fact that So. Miss and UCF (UF's first two opponents) are both bowl teams. That's true. It's also true that they play in a lesser conference and don't have the talent to compete with the big schools. Florida was favored by more that 20 points in both games. Neither win proved anything about the quality of Florida.
2) What makes you so sure playing through the SEC schedule is difficult? Is the fact that no team usually emerges undefeated proof the conference play is better there that anywhere else? As established above, there is no way to gauge whether all these teams are good or just average. The conference has manipulated the polls by playing nothing but lousy teams all year, so those aren't helpful either. How do we, then, ultimately prove which conference is the best?
Bowl games. Conferences play against conferences when the teams have had all year to improve. In theory, if the SEC is the best it should be able to prove that during bowl season. They haven't been able to.
In fairness, the SEC has done okay in bowls. Last year, they had a few winners: LSU over Miami, UF over Iowa, Alabama over Texas Tech. They also had a few bad losers: UGA fell to West Virginia. Wisconsin beat Auburn. South Carolina lost to Missouri. The SEC hasn't had the best bowl record among the top conferences in any of the last five years.
I'm sure you crybaby SEC fans will have excuses for all of this, but it speaks for itself. The only thing the SEC excells at is talking about how great they are. They never actually prove it on the field. That's why it's overrated.
Arkansas-14, at Arkansas
UGA-14, at UGA
Wofford (D1-AA)- 20
S. Car.-27, at SC
Air Force- 30
Tenn.- 31, at Tenn.
And these are the good SEC teams?
Last edited by CEDeoudes59; 11-04-2006 at 03:09 PM.
- 11-04-2006, 03:02 PM
I actually think you are making a very valid point here that gets overlooked...SEC fans are loyal though, expect this thread to grow to a few pages and possibly get intense
- 11-04-2006, 03:08 PM
For me, Florida and Tennessee are legit.
And VERY LEGIT. Gators are for real and the Vols should be top 8
LSU is a fraud
Auburn is nearly a fraud
Georgia is worse than a fraud, they are a complete joke.
Arkansas is decent, but looks better because Auburn is highly overrated.
South Carolina is okay, no real business in the top 25 though.
Same with Alabama.
Vandy, Mississippi, Miss St., Kentucky are the SEC cupcakes and are as lousy as any 4 of the worst teams in any major conference.. maybe even the Big East too.
This year, the SEC is overrated.
11-04-2006, 03:28 PM
Retaliation is coming soon. However what do you consider the top two conferences in the nation? 1. Big Ten 2. ?
11-04-2006, 03:46 PM
I dont even know about big ten, ohio state is def the best IMO and Michigan is a good team despite not looking so great the last few weeks, but after that I dont have a whole lot of faith in them. I didn't mean to imply that I believed the SEC wasn't good, just that he made a good argument as to whether they are as good as people say they are. Gators52, anyone who is saying florida isn't a legit team has some explaining to do
11-04-2006, 03:47 PM
Its not important what the second best conference is; only that The Big Ten is number one. Never forget that. LOLOriginally Posted by gators52
11-04-2006, 03:57 PM
11-04-2006, 04:06 PM
I do respect Tennessese for demolishing California, and both programs for scheduling that game.
Regardless of the opponents rankings, I respect Florida schedule - Florida does play FSU as well, for what it is worth.
No respect for Auburn or LSU. LSU plays Tulane. and Auburn plays Buffalo for an out of conference game. What a f_cking joke.
I respect Arkansas a ton for taking on a HEALTHY USC team on opening day the past two years. The just got completely demolished in both games but credit Houston Nutt (coach, ark) for not letting his team get discouraged. I still believe when healthy, USC can be #2 in the nation. Ohio St. is #1 no questions asked.
I not going to beat a dead horse here but USC plays: Nebraska, Arkansas and Notre Dame for out of conference matchups. Not to mention, Cal, Oregon and Washington St are good teams.
That's not bad.
It's actually good when you see that West Virginia's toughest matchup is agaisnt Eastern Carolina.
I don't think there is anyone right now who doesn't think West Virginia is a fraud. But it doesn't matter. Their season is over. Time for their gross kids to drink crappy beer and get even more fat.
11-04-2006, 07:44 PM
I don't respect Florida all that much - because they took Miami off the schedule after we beat the living sh*t outta them in 1987 (save for the home and home in '02 and '03).
That is total BS. The 3 FLA teams all should play each other EVERY year - not piss and moan about how tough their conference is.
11-04-2006, 07:54 PM
JMH your really starting to make me dislike Miami fans, maybe we dont want to play you for fear of getting cleated to death and **** slapped by a helmet. However we are playing you guys in 09 i believe and i'm not sure if there are plans for games after that or not. Also how can you say it's U'F's fault and not Miami's for not scheduling the games?Originally Posted by jmh80
11-04-2006, 08:22 PM
That's the word from Cane Mutiny. Spurrier and the AD didn't want UM on the schedule - the SEC was too tough.
Meanwhile - the FSU game remained???
Yeah - 2009 in the Swamp and then 2013 in the OB (not sure if that'll be bought out or not by the Gators - I'm skeptical).
11-04-2006, 08:32 PM
Petrino is a very, very good coach - better than Tressell or Carr.
But - his D is just bad. Bad, bad, bad.
I would expect L'ville to score points against either OSU*/Mich - but they'd get beat by at least 3 TD's.
11-04-2006, 08:39 PM
The Texas O has been impressing me lately...but that Defense...if they step up they could be a very scary team if they somehow make it to the NC, highly unlikely though.Originally Posted by Rogue Drone
11-04-2006, 08:46 PM
Who knows RD, who knows - with the right calls by the refs, anyone can win a national title.
Colt McCoy has really been playing well.
Nebraska shoulda beat Texas though. Callahan was too aggressive going for it on that 3rd down IMO. But - I guess if you wanna pull the upset of a top 5 team and you are unranked - you gotta pull out all the stops.
11-04-2006, 08:47 PM
11-04-2006, 09:01 PM
11-05-2006, 12:19 AM
Good points were made CED. I think the SEC is good but the Big 10 with Michigan and The Ohio State University are much better. OSU b!tch slapped a very good Texas team and Michigan raped the Cryin' Irish in front of touchdown Jesus.
The SEC is in a way like Mike Tyson when he thought he was the better then he was because he never fought a true great fighter. The SEC is realizing that sh!t gets kind of hard when you play the USC's. I'm not trying to take anything away from them because they do have good teams, but what I'm saying is they aren't as good as they think they are, like iron Mike.
11-05-2006, 02:18 PM
Top to bottom in 2006 - they are the best conference. Are their top 2 better than Michigan/OSU* - probably not. But, FLA/AU/Ark are close.
The thing I don't like about the big 10 is that wacky schedule - and no conference championship.
The Pac 10 should be taken to task on that too.
Yeah - I know, the Big 10 wanted the Domers to be that 12th team (and maybe that happens to finally give a Big 10 title game).
Until the Big 10 and Pac 10 get championship games - they'll always be less tough in my mind.
Further - until I can figure out the scheduling in the Big 10 every year - they'll be less tough in my mind. (For instance, didn't Iowa skip Michigan the year that they went to the Orange? How does that happen??? I don't understand.)
Anyway - like I said, top to bottom the SEC is the toughest. But - that doesn't give 'em a free pass for scheduling Buffalo and NW Louisiana for non-conference. (I think Tennessee is exempted from that - having played Miami and Call the last few years OOC.)
11-05-2006, 04:18 PM
I think there is too much talk about scheduling hard non-conference games. If your in a major conference (except the big east and maybe big 12) your going to have a tough conference schedule. In the area of the BSC and a no playoff system, what reason do these teams have to schedule tough teams? If you lose a game your most likely out of a NC bid. If you lose two your almost out of a BCS bowl bid. Also with the expansion of a 12 game schedule it makes it even harder to win all your games.
JMH made a great point about conference championships. I think all conferences should have them. I'd rather win a conference championship than win a BCS Bowl (except for the Natl title game) in the SEC. If your a team in a weak conference (big east, big 12 and pac 10 (normally it's pretty weak, this year it's pretty good)) then you should schedule a tough non conference game to give your team some credibility.
11-05-2006, 06:14 PM
Normally I would laugh at this but I do agree that the SEC is weaker this year than normally. Going into the season I don't think anyone would have argued that the Gators has the toughest schedule in the country.
BTW- According to gatorzone.com, the Gators play Miami in 08
11-05-2006, 06:51 PM
Yeah - did I say '09 above? I know it's not the same year as Ohio State* for us.
Gators - I see what you are saying. And my position isn't "what's best to get your team to the championship game".
It's manning up and not playing 3 patsies for OOC every freaking year (seemingly).
LSU's OOC schedule was beyond pathetic this year. Auburn's too. But - they just recently finished USC and GaTech (who beat them twice).
Let me digress for a minute - since this is an SEC thread - to skewer LSU.
Les Miles is a freaking idiot. He's Larry Coker Junior. And JaMarcus Russell is a moron.
They should have beaten UT by 10+ points yesterday - being that UT's starting QB this year (Erik Ainge) played all of 2 series. But - they pissed it away with Miami like play - penalties out the whazoo and 4 turnovers.
Poorly coached football team.
But - I'll have to listen to the woofing tomorrow at work - meanwhile they shat the bed against Auburn.
I mean - who scores 3 freaking points in (arguably) their biggest game of the season?? (Outside of Miami, that is.)
I'm just hoping I don't say anything too inflamatory like that to my manager....
11-06-2006, 07:13 PM
You cannot add a championship game. The Big 10 will never take away the meaning of The Game. None of this was a problem until Penn State joined the ranks and added an 11th team into the mix. I'm not at all for adding WVU or Missouri, and screw the Irish. Do not add another team, but rather drop Northwestern. They've had only 2 good runs that I know of, are more academic-based than the other schools, and do not follow the state premisis of the rest of the conf. Dropping NW would get us back to 10 teams and seasons where all the teams play each other, creating an outright winner. Doing this takes nothing away from The Game and strengthens the conference.Originally Posted by jmh80
11-06-2006, 07:20 PM
OSU alone has Michigan, a rival in Illinois (which is outdated, but the IlliBuck trophy and other traditions still exist), a conference created rivalry with PSU, and I'd even throw Wisconsin in there for personal opinion.Originally Posted by Rogue Drone
11-07-2006, 02:25 PM
Not sour grapes, but the QB who started for Arkansas vs. USC is now a WR.
McFadden, THE tailback in the SEC was not yet healthy. He is now. How many yards per game? He's VERY tough with all 10 toes working.
USC is a good team, but don't think that a similar outcome would occur they had they played in October or November.
I believe the SEC introduced the rest of college football to speed and defense years ago, and remains one of the toughest conferences to date.
11-07-2006, 10:13 PM
Sorry - I believe Miami showed the world speed when we upset a heavily favored Nebraska team in the '84 Orange Bowl.
Schnellenberger coined the motto "we take high school DB's and turn 'em into LB's, we take high school LB's and turn 'em into DL's" on defense.
11-07-2006, 11:40 PM
O.K., O.K. But what's with all this "we" crap. Did you play on that '84 team. Wait, according to your age, what were you, 4years old at the time? Ahhh....the golden years.
11-08-2006, 01:05 AM
Come on bro. Jay is just passionate about football like many of us. Of course he didn't play for the '84 Canes, he's just trying to make a point. Hasn't anyone else in here ever used "we" when talking about their favorite team ? I still say "we" beat the Cowboys with the The Catch in '81 and I think I was barely learning my first cuss word back thenOriginally Posted by Innings Eater
11-08-2006, 01:09 AM
Agreed, it is certainly commonplace for people to refer to their team as "we". Not to mention I believe jmh also went to the U
11-08-2006, 10:06 AM
I think you're missing the point I intended to make.Originally Posted by Iron Warrior
All I did was make a point re: the SEC. (which is the topic of this thread)
Mr. Miami, Jay, retorted in a smart-a$$ tone. I'm just returning the favor by busting his ba!!s a bit. Ease up guys.
I don't think anybody got hurt.
Miami may have "perfected it" (showing that speed kills), but I believe the SEC (should I now say we?) is who brought the idea to the masses. That's all.
11-08-2006, 08:40 PM
No worries bro. I see what you're saying. Kinda like how we (49ers) invented the West Coast offense and then someone saying the Packers perfected it. I'd definitely have to remind them about the guy in my avatar and Cool JoeOriginally Posted by Innings Eater
11-08-2006, 09:24 PM
I think I was about 8 at the time. I actually cried that day when Everson Walls couldn't get to that ball. Damn Cowboys.Originally Posted by Iron Warrior
11-08-2006, 10:49 PM
Touche, they did have their influence, so did Paul Brown with the Cincinnati Bengals. Bill Walsh and the 49ers just get the lion's share of the creditOriginally Posted by Rogue Drone
11-08-2006, 10:51 PM
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