[ArnieIAmNot]

I never watched boxing until a few years ago, and then my Tivo discovered ESPN Classics doing profiles of the greats. Having just recently watched about 5-10 hours each of Tyson, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, etc. Considering I had little bias coming into it, and based only on what I saw, I believe Tyson was the most dangerous and least consistent fighter ever.

Could anyone stand a chance fighting a ****y, focused, young Tyson on a good night throwing a flurry of KO uppercuts so fast I had to use slo-mo to even see his gloves? Hell no! Could Tyson mentally get it together even when he was 20, undefeated, and facing an inferior fighter? No way.

I give the young Tyson even odds with Ali or Foreman, just depends on what demons were dancing in his head that day.

[jarhead]

Originally Posted by Trauma1

Very true, poon has the destructive power that could topple rome......while yes douglas did whoop up on him, just by watching that fight it was like mike wasn't even there. Douglas did what he had to do to beat him, and did it well......but that trial was the icing on the cake in his downfall from the top.

Hehe yep, poon is a cruel mistress indeed. Good points, he definitely wasn't there that day. I think it was very evident just by looking at his conditioning for that fight. I don't recall him being in worse physical shape( which still wasn't necessarily horrible, but a bit soft for him) at any other point in his career.

[jarhead]

Originally Posted by ArnieIAmNot

I give the young Tyson even odds with Ali or Foreman, just depends on what demons were dancing in his head that day.

Pretty good statement here. I think mike was his own worst enemy. Maybe not the best technical boxer, but man did he have potential. give him Gotti's heart and fortitude, and who knows...

[Trauma1]

Originally Posted by jarhead

Hehe yep, poon is a cruel mistress indeed. Good points, he definitely wasn't there that day. I think it was very evident just by looking at his conditioning for that fight. I don't recall him being in worse physical shape( which still wasn't necessarily horrible, but a bit soft for him) at any other point in his career.

I totally agree that his conditioning was definately subpar for that fight......but not only that, where the hell was his aggressive intimidation as a motivator....He couldn't have looked more flat that day, but guess it was bound to happen sooner or later. As far as mike's conditioning, when have you seen a boxer with a more impressive neck and traps than iron mike.

[jarhead]

Originally Posted by Trauma1

I totally agree that his conditioning was definately subpar for that fight......but not only that, where the hell was his aggressive intimidation as a motivator....He couldn't have looked more flat that day, but guess it was bound to happen sooner or later. As far as mike's conditioning, when have you seen a boxer with a more impressive neck and traps than iron mike.

Yeah he was always built solid. He looked like he could hit as hard as he did, which helped for the intimidation factor because he was short for a heavy weight. He did seem out of it for that fight. I think after douglas got up(even with the long count), he realized he was in some trouble. He obviously trained halfassed for the fight, and it was just busters day. The heavyweight division is in dire need of a guy like tyson right now, even with all the bad he brought to the game.

[Beelzebub]

wasn't there a lot of speculation on the count? i seem to recall something like that, whether it's true or not i don't know. the claim was when douglas got knocked down, the count was ridiculously slow. however, when tyson was down, the count was much faster???? maybe i'm confused but that does ring a bell.

[Trauma1]

Originally Posted by Beelzebub

wasn't there a lot of speculation on the count? i seem to recall something like that, whether it's true or not i don't know. the claim was when douglas got knocked down, the count was ridiculously slow. however, when tyson was down, the count was much faster???? maybe i'm confused but that does ring a bell.

yepper, douglas got the longest count i've ever seen.....totally ridiculous.

[jarhead]

Yeah the ref stopped in the middle of the count and looked back towards tyson. He got like an 11 or 12 count. Must of bet on the longshot.

[not_big_enuf]

The turning point in Tyson's career was Cus's death. He was never the same fighter afterwards... not even close. Cus was Tyson's father, and was the tie that held Mike together emotionally. Had Cus lived longer, Tyson's career would have been a different story. Emotionally, he lost all heart to fight after Cus died. Tyson still won fights, but he slowly abandoned the style that Cus preached. Tyson's known for being a whirlwind fighter, but he wasn't early on in his career. Tyson was a vicious puncher that actually had technique and disciplined. Same with is life.... he slowly lost his career and his life.....

[Trauma1]

Originally Posted by not_big_enuf

The turning point in Tyson's career was Cus's death. He was never the same fighter afterwards... not even close. Cus was Tyson's father, and was the tie that held Mike together emotionally. Had Cus lived longer, Tyson's career would have been a different story. Emotionally, he lost all heart to fight after Cus died. Tyson still won fights, but he slowly abandoned the style that Cus preached. Tyson's known for being a whirlwind fighter, but he wasn't early on in his career. Tyson was a vicious puncher that actually had technique and disciplined. Same with is life.... he slowly lost his career and his life.....

I totally agree, cus was the glue that held tyson together. He absolutely was a vicious puncher.....how many heavyweights have you seen that can throw a rt cross/uppercut combo with the speed and precision that he did.

[Frank Costanza]

I think most of you are caught up with how he fought instead of looking at WHO he fought. The division was pure **** when he was coming up. The divisions were completely split and yes if you wathced some his early fights his weakness' were shown. Don't watch classics because they only show his dominant fights which mostly show weak boxers with very little quickness and even less power. Who did he beat? Tyrelle Biggs? Tony Tucker (that took 12 rounds)? Spinks who wasn't even a real heavyweight?

It was always though if you kept moving and actually jabbed with power you could frustraste Tyson. If fact it took a washed up Larry Holmes to show that if you actually have someone that knows how to box, you can make Mike look average at best. Its too bad that Holmes was WAY past his prime. Even when he fought Frank Bruno you could see how you could frustrate Tyson.

The difference between Tyson and Ali is Ali HAD no weakness'. It took some year for people to figure Tyson out and then exploit him. Ali just got old.

[Frank Costanza]

Originally Posted by Beelzebub

wasn't there a lot of speculation on the count? i seem to recall something like that, whether it's true or not i don't know. the claim was when douglas got knocked down, the count was ridiculously slow. however, when tyson was down, the count was much faster???? maybe i'm confused but that does ring a bell.

It was bull. You know who pushed that rumor and actually tried to get the fight nullified? Don King. Tyson got his ass whooped the fight. Octavio Sanchez was always a slow counter and if you watch Douglas he was sitting there waiting until he reached the 8 count to stand up because it was the end of a round. Get up, bell rings, you go rest.

[Frank Costanza]

Originally Posted by Trauma1

Prior to that event, nobody had ever exploited a weakness on tyson......they never had a chance to with most ko'd in the first 2 rounds. While I agree with most that he wasn't a distance fighter, but that however wasn't his stategy or mindset for the fight. If anyone was good at exploiting a boxers' weakness it was iron mike using nothing more than intimidation that opened up his opponents for a beating.......I think in the end tyson is really the one that beat himself....sad but true.

Several fighters showed his weakness but they were such weak opponents they couldn't exploit it. The divisions was weak as hell. Tyson's big fight was with Spinks who wasn't even a true heavyweight. He was light heavyweight. It took him 15 rounds in both fights to beat Holmes who was washed up and trying to tie Marciano record. He was your biggest challenger and showed why it was such a weak division. Only when you actually had talent develop such as Holyfield, Moore, Lewis, did the diviosn actually regain credibilty.

In reality the biggest competition was probably Tony Tucker who it took 12 rounds for Tyson to knockout. Spinks refused to fight Tucker in favor of fighting Gerry Cooney. Wonder why.

[jminis]

I'll throw my 2cents in here. I"m friends with Lou Duva, in fact I went to a fight with him two weeks ago. I've spoken with him about tyson on several occasions and his thoughts were that Mike was the best "fighter" he's ever seen. He also said he's never seen anyone hit as hard as he did and with such bad intentions.

My opinion is that Mike was a special fighter like some of the greats. He had bricks for fists that could knock just about anyone out. I'll think we'll see that power again and I think a great fighter is just years away.