[CEDeoudes59]

haha that vick spiral is usually 3 feet too high

[LuckyBoy]

I did say numbers arent everything except in the win column and yes I kno the Pats have won more than ATL. Im not disputing that. Im just saying that the bulk of the Pats wins have come on the shoulders of the defense and not Brady. The stat breakdown you have is for the entire season, not the playoffs (when Brady supposedly rises to another level) If you check em out theyre filled with 150 yd passing games 1 td 2 int etc But they still won those games due to their outstanding defense. What it comes down to is no other team in the league needs a player like ATL needs Vick. Compare winning percentage when Vick is in to when he isnt. Bad mechanics and all he carries that team. Bledsoe was winning with the Pats team they have now. Again Im not discrediting what the Pats have done AS A TEAM but the fact that so many people ride Brady's **** and act like he's the saviour of the team is absolutely ridiculous. I just havent been impressed by him, he seems very much like a system qb with a magnificant o line.

[VanillaGorilla]

Hate on Vick all you guys want I hear this crap from the fantasy football forums all day and its all blah blah blah....Micahel Vick wins period...

In a week NFC league and with an easy schedule he wins. Will he win if teams get better in the NFC practically in the defensive department? Probably not. What the eagles did was show if you take away the run and make Vick try to beat you as a QB, he can't do it. Vick also showed everyone that he is not comfortable throwing the ball.

Peyton Manning broke a record and just Like Marino he hasnt won **** and look at his running back and recivers..

He made it into the playoffs just like Vick did, so why does that make Vick better than Manning? What has Vick won? Has Vick made it to the super bowl? Also the AFC is a hell of a lot harder to make it into the playoffs.

Vick has one of the worst O-Lines....shitty pip squeak running back,,,,,and Nobody at the Wide position....yet he still wins

Dunn wasn't bad in Tampa bay,he has a few good receivers, and who would know how good his O line is because if someone isn't open in 1 second he takes off and runs regardless if there is pressure on him.

the guy was healthy all year and they made it to the NFC championship and he was trying to learn the West Coast Offense,,,,McNabb said it took him 3-4 years to get it down,,,once Vicks learns that offense,,,,you guys will all be on Vicks nutts.

First of all the eagles did not treat McNabb like a prince. They made him stop running as much and made him learn to throw the ball better. Atlanta is not doing that with Vick at all. Vick is the whole team, Vick is special, Vick can turn water into wine. What good is learning an offense when he takes of running in 2 seconds?

I heard its kinda crazy. Brady is gonna be so Average this year without Charlie Weis,,,you lil Pat fans ur win streak is done,,,,your team is gonna suck ass this year.

Let's see the patriots are full of good players on both sides of the ball. They can beat you on both sides of the ball. All you have is one player who is the most over rated QB in the league who wins in a weak conference. Go look up Vick's schedule last year. I have a cold do you think Vick could cure me of it?

[VanillaGorilla]

I did say numbers arent everything except in the win column and yes I kno the Pats have won more than ATL. Im not disputing that. Im just saying that the bulk of the Pats wins have come on the shoulders of the defense and not Brady. The stat breakdown you have is for the entire season, not the playoffs (when Brady supposedly rises to another level) If you check em out theyre filled with 150 yd passing games 1 td 2 int etc But they still won those games due to their outstanding defense.

Look at the QB ratings. It is pretty clear brady is a better QB than Vick. That sounds more like Vick than Brady that you are describing. Brady is know for his pose and accuracy, while not making many mistakes.

Bledsoe was winning with the Pats team they have now.

Are you insane?You have no idea what you are taking about. The pats were loosing with drew. In fact they went 0-3 and 0-4 with drew before he got hurt and Brady took over. The first season when bill took over they were horrible and had a loosing record.

AS A TEAM but the fact that so many people ride Brady's **** and act like he's the saviour of the team is absolutely ridiculous. I just havent been impressed by him, he seems very much like a system qb with a magnificant o line.

Again look at the qb ratings.

[Iron Warrior]

Originally Posted by oswizzle

Brady is gonna be so Average this year without Charlie Weis,,,you lil Pat fans ur win streak is done,,,,your team is gonna suck ass this year.

Wasn't he supposed to be average after the first "lucky" Super Bowl. If your team wins 3 Super Bowl rings in 4 years than chances are the QB is very good, you can argue he's not the best but to say Brady is average sounds pretty absurd to me. His weapons aren't much better than Vick's. Do you actually think David Givens and Deion Branch are the equivalent to Harrison and Wayne, Walker and Driver, Moss and Porter. Corey Dillon is a great RB but Vick has 2 very good backs in Duckett and Dunn. Brady's first Super Bowl team wasn't exactly doing great before Bledsoe was starting either. The only piece of luck he's had was that fumble play against the Raiders, other than that he's earned everything he has.

[LuckyBoy]

I think youre missing my entire point VG. Im not arguing who's better between Vick and Brady, what Im saying is that Vick is by far the most important to his team in the league. I very much believe that the pats couldve won these past few years with a number of different qb's. He's a product of the system and line around him, he is rarely pressured and when he is, most of the receiver patterns are short ins or quick outs/slants with the occasional deep pattern thrown in. Poise is easy to have when youre only rushed maybe 5 times in a game. Not to mention there is only about a 10 point diff in overall qb rating for their career. And for how much you bad mouth Vick as a qb, thats not a huge diff and doesnt reflect too greatly upon The Almighty Brady. IW, Brady was average the year after their first superbowl, they didnt even make the playoffs that year. While Brady's weapons arent elite his weapons are WORLDS above Vicks going into this season. Price has been one of the biggest busts in team history and the only decent number 2 receiver theyve had is Butterfinger Finneran. He hasnt had a deep threat or anyone who could consistently catch the ball. Thank God he had Crumpler last yr otherwise what would be the point of dropping back to pass at all? Hopefully Jenkins can progress like theyve expected and maybe Roddy White can surprise some people.

[EEmain]

Did you know... Troy Aikman is the winningest QB in any one decade with 90 wins

in the 90`s

[VanillaGorilla]

I think youre missing my entire point VG. Im not arguing who's better between Vick and Brady, what Im saying is that Vick is by far the most important to his team in the league. I very much believe that the pats couldve won these past few years with a number of different qb's. He's a product of the system and line around him, he is rarely pressured and when he is, most of the receiver patterns are short ins or quick outs/slants with the occasional deep pattern thrown in.

According to many people Vick is the team, which is the whole problem. They haven't made him calm down his happy feet and stay in the pocket. I can't remember the last time a team went to the sb that was a one player team. If another team figures out how to shut that one player down they are screwed. The first year Brady did throw mostly short passes. That has changed. As I have said Brady is known for being an intelligent and accurate player with poise.

Poise is easy to have when youre only rushed maybe 5 times in a game.

No poise is when you have three minutes left in a game, are down by ten, and you calmly score some points and win a game. Poise is when no one is open to stay in the pocket and make a play. Poise is a quality Vick doesn't have. If no one is open in two seconds he takes off running. That might be fun to watch but it mean the passing play they called didn't work.

And for how much you bad mouth Vick as a qb, thats not a huge diff and doesnt reflect too greatly upon The Almighty Brady

It's a big enough difference. I think Brady is one of the better QBs in the league but there are QB in the league who are better than he is but Vick isn't one of them.

IW, Brady was average the year after their first superbowl, they didnt even make the playoffs that year.

Actually he was about the same. The problem was with their defense. Every game they were giving up 200 yards rushing.

While Brady's weapons arent elite his weapons are WORLDS above Vicks going into this season. Price has been one of the biggest busts in team history and the only decent number 2 receiver theyve had is Butterfinger Finneran.

Price was great with the Bills .........maybe it's not him.............. maybe it's that Vick can't throw the ball. What difference would it make is he had the receiving core of the Rams a few years ago? He isn't comfortable throwing the ball and he isn't patient enough to stay in the pocket. I think Vick has the talent to be a great QB in the league but lacks the brains. The coach doesn't seem to have the brains to get him to calm down and throw the ball either. They treat him like he's the second coming of Christ. If they don't change that Vick is going to break the record for a QB with the most rushing yards or he is going to break his neck because he rarely slides. Has a one man show team ever been to the big game?

[LuckyBoy]

Price was great with the Bills.... when he was the #2 slot receiver. Now that he's the primary he lacks the speed and the balls to go over the middle and get a ball in traffic. I kno its a horrible example but Vick was fantastic in the Pro Bowl when he had protection and Torry Holt to throw to. Also Vick has lead a number of late 4th quarter drives to get into field goal range/the end zone in his career. Either by his feet or his arm he has done it. Problem has been that Jay Feely wasnt the most reliable kicker in the world which is why he was cut. So does that mean he has poise? Yes he has happy feet, yes he takes off and runs but its not always because of a lack of patience but the lack of pass protection. No a one man show hasnt made it to the big game but Vick got one game away being one which leads me to believe that once he has respectable receivers that they will be there a number of times.

[VanillaGorilla]

I kno its a horrible example but Vick was fantastic in the Pro Bowl when he had protection and Torry Holt to throw to.

It's the pro bowl you can't use that as an example. It's worse than using pre season as an example. The score of pro bowls are usually 50 to 45.

So does that mean he has poise?

He played well in the pro bowl so you think that means he has poise? What you should be paying attention to is how he performed against the eagles in the post season. In that game he flat out sucked. They shut down the run, forced him to throw and he couldn't do it. Do you think that teams aren't going to watch that and try to do the same thing?

No a one man show hasnt made it to the big game but Vick got one game away being one which leads me to believe that once he has respectable receivers that they will be there a number of times.

The eagles were really the only good team in the NFC and they beat Vick like he was a 5 year old girl. What you don't want to admit is the majority of the NFC was 8-8 or in other words the nfc flat out sucked. If Vick was in the AFC he wouldn't have made it into the play offs. I think if Vick and the falcons were smart he could be one of the best in the league. The problem is they haven't been smart. The coach needs to smack him in the nose with a newspaper when he takes off running after 2 seconds instead of treating him like his **** doesn't stink. Until they improve his poise, intelligence, and accuracy he is the most over rated QB in the game.

[EEmain]

PB doesn`t allow blitzing...

[VanillaGorilla]

Look how weak their schedule was last year

SUN 9/12
(national) ATLANTA 21
SAN FRANCISCO 19

SUN 9/19

ATLANTA 34
ST. LOUIS 17

SUN 9/26
ATLANTA 6
ARIZONA 3
Georgia Dome

SUN 10/3
4:05 p.m. ET
ATLANTA 27
CAROLINA 10
Bank of America Stadium
Charlotte, NC The Falcons split the series with the Carolina Panthers in 2003 with each team winning at home. Atlanta has won 12 of its 18 meetings against Carolina since the Panthers joined the NFL in 1995

SUN 10/10
1 p.m. ET
FOX-TV ATLANTA 10
DETROIT 17
Georgia Dome


SUN 10/17
1 p.m. ET
CBS-TV ATLANTA 21
SAN DIEGO 20
Georgia Dome


SUN 10/24
1 p.m. ET
FOX-TV ATLANTA 10
KANSAS CITY 56


SUN 10/31
4:05 p.m. ET
FOX-TV
ATLANTA 41
DENVER 28

SUN 11/7 BYE WEEK

SUN 11/14
1 p.m. ET
FOX-TV ATLANTA 24
TAMPA BAY 14


SUN 11/21
4:15 p.m. ET
FOX-TV
(national) ATLANTA 14
NEW YORK GIANTS 10
Giants Stadium


SUN 11/28
4:05 p.m. ET
FOX-TV ATLANTA 24
NEW ORLEANS 21


SUN 12/5
1 p.m. ET
FOX-TV ATlANTA 0
TAMPA BAY 27

SUN 12/12
1 :00 p.m. ET
CBS -TV ATLANTA 35
OAKLAND 10
Georgia Dome


SAT 12/18
8:30 p.m. ET
ESPN-TV
(national) ATLANTA 34
CAROLINA 31 (OT)


SUN 12/26
1: p.m. ET
FOX-TV ATLANTA 13
NEW ORLEANS 26
Superdome


SUN 1/2
4:05 p.m. ET
FOX-TV ATLANTA 26
SEATTLE 28


2004 Postseason Schedule

SAT 1/15

ATLANTA 47
ST. LOUIS 17


SUN 1/23

ATLANTA 10
PHILADELPHIA 27

[CEDeoudes59]

That is weak, because they beat the hell out of the rams when they had to in the playoffs. Vick can't play 3 consistant games yet - so they will have a rough time reaching the superbowl.

Superbowl: Panthers - Ravens

[VanillaGorilla]

That is weak, because they beat the hell out of the rams when they had to in the playoffs.

A team of monkeys could have made it into the playoffs with a scedule like that.

[LuckyBoy]

you guys keep sayin how weak the nfc was and granted it wasnt as strong as the afc last year but who besides indy and pitts was so tough to beat that it just skyrocketed the pats into a whole nother world? san diego? atl beat them! and dont even say the jets. atl took 3 of four from tampa bay and carolina. and theyre hated rivals and you all kno you can throw records out the window when two of those line up against each other. i used the probowl as an example of how vick could function if he had an o-line that could give him time. wither the line was blizting or not is irrelevant because im using it as a comparison as a competant oline like brady has. and i said he has poise because he has lead numerous 4th quarter and 2 min drills before the half for points not because he did well in the probowl.

[VanillaGorilla]

you guys keep sayin how weak the nfc was and granted it wasnt as strong as the afc last year but who besides indy and pitts was so tough to beat that it just skyrocketed the pats into a whole nother world?

You mean because they beat the best offese and defense in the NFL? Once again no one thought they could do it. Your the one that said a W is all that matters.

i used the probowl as an example of how vick could function if he had an o-line that could give him time.

And that is a piss poor example. There is no to very little defense in the pro bowl. Most of them have the scores above 50. In a word the pro bowl is a joke and you can't possibly think that it proves any point.

and i said he has poise because he has lead numerous 4th quarter and 2 min drills before the half for points not because he did well in the probowl.

He sure had a lot of poise in the post season game with the eagles. You can't seriously look at Atlanta's schedule last year and not say they had a very easy schedule which is the only reason they made it into the play offs. Look at the teams in the AFC the majority of them had wining seasons. Now look at the teams in the NFC. At the time of the play offs 8 -8 teams were making it into the wild card round.