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Randy Moss or Terell Owens

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    Quote Originally Posted by CEDeoudes59
    i knew the guy was trouble when he ran out to the star at Texas stadium 2 times in 1 game - but that made him a fan favorite. Hey, I liked him too. His 2nd year in San Fransisco, he went on and on about his license plate that said "Xposure". Telling everyone "I'm better than Keyshawn Johnson, and I'm just trying to get exposure". People started liking him because he was the newest NFL star. But since then he proved to be a cancer which included: getting his coach fired and calling his former QB (garcia) a '***got' on his website.

    what a quality teammate.
    He is better than Keyshawn and what has Garcia done lately.

    He was right on all accounts. The one thing he does is back up what he says. He's not a blowhard like FredX who talks more **** than anyone and does so little.
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    amen brutha, sing on!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Bro,

    First of all even when tehy were 8-0 the fans themselves didn't care because even if they went 16-0, if they didn't win the SuperBowl they failed.

    If I had Pinkston and Mitchell on the other side, I would want to ball more too.

    I don't give a **** what the guy says or does off the field (business wise). The guy flat out busts his ass on the field and leaves everything he has on the field. And he was partioally right, he WASN'T tired during the Superbowl. If I busted my ass to get back from a broken leg and my teamates were "tired" I would be one pissed off guy myself. But you don't say that in public and that is what he did wrong.

    I just find it funny that everyone rips on the guy for wanting more money. That is what capitalism is about. Everyone has the "holier than thou" attitude when its not THEIR money being talked about but if if your money you would be scrathcing and clawing for every dime. Everyone is a saint when its not THEIR money.

    Owens a cancer? They just had their best year last year and check Mcnabbs numbers with and without TO. Its not the player that is the cancer, its the business of the game that is the cancer and it involves every player out there.

    I don't have a problem with anyone asking for more money as long as they are woth it and IMO he is worth every cent. He is a horse, plain and simple.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    He is better than Keyshawn and what has Garcia done lately.

    He was right on all accounts. The one thing he does is back up what he says. He's not a blowhard like FredX who talks more **** than anyone and does so little.
    I agree. But say he gets his money, will he shut his mouth then? How would you feel if you were McNabb? I think the comments attack McNabb serve no constructive purpose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CEDeoudes59
    I agree. But say he gets his money, will he shut his mouth then? How would you feel if you were McNabb? I think the comments attack McNabb serve no constructive purpose.
    One, Owens WILL NOT get his money, that's a "non-issue". And he did throw Mcnabb under the bus. Who cares if he's great. He's greedy and selfish. I'm glad we got rid of his ass. I was tiring of his antics and constant whining and moaning.
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    I already stated that he shouldn't have said it publically, but in all honestly, he did have a point.

    You shouldn't have to go through rehab like he did and train injuried to have your own teamates tire out on you in the biggest game of their career. I can assure one thing, you won't see Mcnabb tire out again after those comments.

    They renegotiaoted Mcnabb's contract 2 years ago, why can't they do his? The guy did everything and MORE last year. Every doctor out there said the guy should not be on the field. He risked his whole career (and MILLIONS) for that game. The least you can do is shown SOME sort of flexbility. He hasn't missed a game or trianing camp yet but people are ready to hang him already.
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    Philly needs a 2nd option. with or without owens. Best move was cutting Mitchell.
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    Quote Originally Posted by natedogg
    One, Owens WILL NOT get his money, that's a "non-issue". And he did throw Mcnabb under the bus. Who cares if he's great. He's greedy and selfish. I'm glad we got rid of his ass. I was tiring of his antics and constant whining and moaning.
    Yeah, your team is doing great without him.

    Who care if he is great?

    Jesus, someone is REALLY bitter.

    Yeah I remember his constant whining and moaning last year with the Eagles. Oh thats right, it didn't happen. If I had a front office like San Fran, I would bitch and moan all day too.
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    Why was Freddie Mitchell so popular? I never got that.
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    I think for the most part, he was entertaining and never really said that much **** about other teams, just himself. When he called out Rodney, posted a donut, then he became an idiot.

    He did make some big catches at points and was a good 3rd donw reciever at times. Its remeniscent of Brian MItchell. People liked him as well but then when he called Simeon Rice soft before the NFL Champ game and they lost again, he was an idiot as well.
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    True, York is a horrible owner. But I highly doubt if for some reason they had kept Owens, they would have been any better. We just would have heard more bitching.
    Freddie Mitchell was popular?
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    Well popular like a circus act, not a superstar
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    so now what... who do the eagles sign? Pinkston shouldn't be their 2
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    Boulware
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Boulware
    he is money. Coverted to DE from LB (but played DE in college) led the league in sacks in just 12 games - 3 or 4 years ago?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    I already stated that he shouldn't have said it publically, but in all honestly, he did have a point.

    You shouldn't have to go through rehab like he did and train injuried to have your own teamates tire out on you in the biggest game of their career. I can assure one thing, you won't see Mcnabb tire out again after those comments.

    They renegotiaoted Mcnabb's contract 2 years ago, why can't they do his? The guy did everything and MORE last year. Every doctor out there said the guy should not be on the field. He risked his whole career (and MILLIONS) for that game. The least you can do is shown SOME sort of flexbility. He hasn't missed a game or trianing camp yet but people are ready to hang him already.
    Even though we both are diehard Birds fans we will never agree on this... D. Mc didn`t reupp 1 year after the Birds went out of there way to accomadate him... He may have been tired or concussed or as my above post stated took a kidney shot. But you don`t rip your own... And the fans have every right to rip TO after the things he said in the media and on his site(it`s our money he is after). What did he expect? A love fest.. He is in Philly man where football comes after GOD and family for most. Besides what happened to his best friend and agent.. who he said he would never leave.. now that he has hired the NFL`s version of Scott Boras... Studd on the field, Moron off...

    FredEx did an exclusive with Derrick Gunn on CSN last night.. it was hilarious.. he now says it was the fans that gave him all the nicknames.. and seemed at the point of tears at times.. Thanked Reid ect... and generally gave the impression he doesn`t want to be unemployed this year. Never thought I would see a quiet and reserved Fourth and Freddie...

    When TO comes back I will jump back onboard like the rest... If he had only waited till the new TV money kicked in after having a very successful 2nd season the vault would have been his.. now he won`t get snot.. and he won`t play out the 4th year of his contract here either... Look for G. Lewis and the new Georgia boy to get a long look in the minis and training camp if he holds out...

    If there weren`t questions about Henrys knee I say bring him in.. would take the load off BWes and allow Buck to ease back in also.. Long live the three headed monster...
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    A five star thread.

    edit: I'm being serious, God chill out people. This is good discussion.
    Last edited by CEDeoudes59; 05-13-2005 at 10:57 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EEmain
    Even though we both are diehard Birds fans we will never agree on this... D. Mc didn`t reupp 1 year after the Birds went out of there way to accomadate him... He may have been tired or concussed or as my above post stated took a kidney shot. But you don`t rip your own... And the fans have every right to rip TO after the things he said in the media and on his site(it`s our money he is after). What did he expect? A love fest.. He is in Philly man where football comes after GOD and family for most. Besides what happened to his best friend and agent.. who he said he would never leave.. now that he has hired the NFL`s version of Scott Boras... Studd on the field, Moron off...

    FredEx did an exclusive with Derrick Gunn on CSN last night.. it was hilarious.. he now says it was the fans that gave him all the nicknames.. and seemed at the point of tears at times.. Thanked Reid ect... and generally gave the impression he doesn`t want to be unemployed this year. Never thought I would see a quiet and reserved Fourth and Freddie...

    When TO comes back I will jump back onboard like the rest... If he had only waited till the new TV money kicked in after having a very successful 2nd season the vault would have been his.. now he won`t get snot.. and he won`t play out the 4th year of his contract here either... Look for G. Lewis and the new Georgia boy to get a long look in the minis and training camp if he holds out...

    If there weren`t questions about Henrys knee I say bring him in.. would take the load off BWes and allow Buck to ease back in also.. Long live the three headed monster...


    That is because the fans live in a fantasy world and expect athletes to live a morally perfect lives even though tehy can't do it themselves.

    I know football comes after God and family and that is why they will never be happy with anything, ever. Even if they win the Superbowl Philly fans will find something to complain about. I know because I am one of them.

    So if I know that going in, I am going to look out me and my money, not what the lunatic fans that live in fantasy world think of me.

    Moron off the field? No, a smart business man off the field. Mcnabb didn't want to renegotiate after year one of his contract because at that point in time he was getting market value. Once that changed, he wanted more money just like everyone else.

    As I already stated, Owens shouldn't have said what he said in public but that doens't mean the guy is all bad. BUt considering what he went through to get back on the field for the game they need him the most, I cut him slack. I also thought what he said has some truth to it.

    4 months ago Owens was God, even after they lost. Now since he wants more money just like any athlete in this league wants at on point, he is the devil. Its ridiculous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    4 months ago Owens was God, even after they lost. Now since he wants more money just like any athlete in this league wants at on point, he is the devil. Its ridiculous.
    It's because Owens was God (after his breakout year), then proceded to get his coach fired and called Jeff Garcia a '***got' on his website. Next, he refuses to play for Baltimore (for good reason i suppose) the public starts hating him. He shows up in Philly and starts winning (regardless of the MNF commercial) - people like him again. But now, he calls out his quarterback and asks for a new contract by saying 'i need to feed my family'. Owens reminds people again of familar antics in San Fran and why they hated him the first place.

    I'm not blaming him for chasing the money, but I'm sure his family isn't hurting for money.

    Funny story, my friend got his cell phone number (from the agent's son he had before Rosenhaus). We called TO several times, he is a real goofball and seemingly nice guy. He talked to my friend Ethan for 15minutes.

    his voicemail said: "You have reached Terrell Owens' voicemail, unfornuately, I can not accomodate your call, but if you leave me a message I'll get back to you... and if you got my Two-Way... and it's urgent.... HIT ME."

    our previous conversation on owens
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    Yes Moron... what leverage does he have? Lurie is the capitalist, TO the employee and based on the salaries of WR, not his opinion of himself, he is getting fair market value... WR don`t make 10 mil per.. QB`s do.. And TO thinks he will be the first... from the Eagles... by blackmail..
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    Leverage? How about an MVP type season. HOw about coming back from a broken leg. How about actually doing this now to set up what he will get in the future? If the Eagles won't pay him, someone else will!!!! He has all the leverage in the world! Check out how many star athletes have held out and how many got their money! Almost ALL of them!

    Actually they almost do make $10mil/year. Harrison's deal is 7 year, $67 million.

    Owens made almost 9 million last year including bonus. This year he will make $3.15 million. Next year he is to recieve a $5 million roster bonus and a 2.5million option with a base salary of $770,000. The kicker is that the Eagles can cut him after this year and not pay him $7.5 million in bonues.

    "The reasoning Rosenhaus says wants a new deal is that he says the Eagles can use Owens this year at a low rate and then cut him before having to pay him the large roster bonus he would be due in 2006."

    He wants a larger base salary wihch is EVERY players RIGHT. He is protecting his OWN ASS! Consdiering the fact that his ankle and leg might never be 100% again he is trying to get what he can NOW. He isn't a spring chicken and WR don't last too long after 30.

    Looking at the contract and the way its set up, he has a very valid point. There is a reason why players have agents and considering what his last agent did (and cost him) hiring Rosenhaus is a good move for him. He could of recieved a LOT more if he directly went into free angency last year.


    I just love how everyone is an expert with other people's money.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CEDeoudes59
    It's because Owens was God (after his breakout year), then proceded to get his coach fired and called Jeff Garcia a '***got' on his website. Next, he refuses to play for Baltimore (for good reason i suppose) the public starts hating him. He shows up in Philly and starts winning (regardless of the MNF commercial) - people like him again. But now, he calls out his quarterback and asks for a new contract by saying 'i need to feed my family'. Owens reminds people again of familar antics in San Fran and why they hated him the first place.

    I'm not blaming him for chasing the money, but I'm sure his family isn't hurting for money.
    Funny how when the Eagles got him, nobody cared about that. When he was cathcing TD's for most of the season, nobody cared about that. When he went through rehab and played in a game where he shouldn't have been on the field, nobody cared about that.

    Now that its offseason and wants to actually make more than $3.15 million this year (1/3 of what Harrison will make) everyone cares about what happened 3-4 years ago with arguably the worst front office in the league (admitted by NUMEROUS players).

    If I were a player I wouild hate fans attitudes at well. THey are more fickle than women and think they know more about the business end than the agents.

    Did any of you boo Mcnabb when he was drafted?


    You quoted:

    "As for Terrell Owens, I truly doesn't believe hes a top 5 reciever anymore."

    I don't want to hear any of you praise him when Andy Reid has to wear spandex this year.
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    Back to the TO vs. Moss sage. TO is the guy I'd rather have despite his bitching about Mariucci and Garcia (the same guy who completed 20 passes to him in one game BTW).

    1) TO will be more consistent and play his ass off for the team, hurt or not while Moss will walk off the field if he feels like it.
    2) TO is a deep threat, not the same deep threat as Moss but still a very dangerous deep threat. I don't know how some people believe he is only a possession receiver, that's Keyshawn folks.
    3) TO will block, thus boosting your team's ability to break a sweep for a long gain, and nothing tires a D-Line like running sweeps all day long. Moss even admits to taking plays off.
    4) IF Moss loses a step then he will become an ordinary receiver because he will not be able to break tackles and get YAC.

    THE MONEY ISSUE: It does suck as fan to watch these guys bitch over the difference between 45 mill and 60 mill. If you don't like it than don't buy tickets or merchandise because that's why they demand so much money. To most of us there is no huge difference but I realize these guys (NFL'ers) DON'T HAVE GUARANTEED CONTRACTS like baseball players. TO needs to realize that by sitting out training camp he will get fined, get no new contract, get in a worse situation with his teammates, and motivate a fan to kill him LOL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Warrior

    THE MONEY ISSUE: It does suck as fan to watch these guys bitch over the difference between 45 mill and 60 mill. If you don't like it than don't buy tickets or merchandise because that's why they demand so much money. To most of us there is no huge difference but I realize these guys (NFL'ers) DON'T HAVE GUARANTEED CONTRACTS like baseball players. TO needs to realize that by sitting out training camp he will get fined, get no new contract, get in a worse situation with his teammates, and motivate a fan to kill him LOL.
    LOL....Right on!

    There is no guaranteed money! Every NFL player is told from day 1 to get as much as you can get NOW! As I said before, the players aren't the problem, its the business that forces them to act this way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    LOL....Right on!

    There is no guaranteed money! Every NFL player is told from day 1 to get as much as you can get NOW! As I said before, the players aren't the problem, its the business that forces them to act this way.
    Which is why he hired Rosenhaus and fired the Joseph, whom frankly should have been fired for scrweing up paperwork last year that almost had him playing for the Ravens.
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    It also forced him a bit into the contract he has now. He could have got a better contract and probably more money if he went directly into free agency. THat is the pay day all these athletes look for. ITs there chance to really bring in the dough and it was bascially erased by his former agent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Leverage? How about an MVP type season. HOw about coming back from a broken leg. How about actually doing this now to set up what he will get in the future? If the Eagles won't pay him, someone else will!!!! He has all the leverage in the world! Check out how many star athletes have held out and how many got their money! Almost ALL of them!

    Actually they almost do make $10mil/year. Harrison's deal is 7 year, $67 million.

    Owens made almost 9 million last year including bonus. This year he will make $3.15 million. Next year he is to recieve a $5 million roster bonus and a 2.5million option with a base salary of $770,000. The kicker is that the Eagles can cut him after this year and not pay him $7.5 million in bonues.

    "The reasoning Rosenhaus says wants a new deal is that he says the Eagles can use Owens this year at a low rate and then cut him before having to pay him the large roster bonus he would be due in 2006."

    He wants a larger base salary wihch is EVERY players RIGHT. He is protecting his OWN ASS! Consdiering the fact that his ankle and leg might never be 100% again he is trying to get what he can NOW. He isn't a spring chicken and WR don't last too long after 30.

    Looking at the contract and the way its set up, he has a very valid point. There is a reason why players have agents and considering what his last agent did (and cost him) hiring Rosenhaus is a good move for him. He could of recieved a LOT more if he directly went into free angency last year.


    I just love how everyone is an expert with other people's money.
    We will never agree here... My bet says he sits untill he complys... TO and Rosenhaus what a matched pair... If he played and caught 14TD again do you really believe that he would be cut...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Funny how when the Eagles got him, nobody cared about that. When he was cathcing TD's for most of the season, nobody cared about that. When he went through rehab and played in a game where he shouldn't have been on the field, nobody cared about that.

    Now that its offseason and wants to actually make more than $3.15 million this year (1/3 of what Harrison will make) everyone cares about what happened 3-4 years ago with arguably the worst front office in the league (admitted by NUMEROUS players).

    If I were a player I wouild hate fans attitudes at well. THey are more fickle than women and think they know more about the business end than the agents.

    Did any of you boo Mcnabb when he was drafted?


    You quoted:

    "As for Terrell Owens, I truly doesn't believe hes a top 5 reciever anymore."

    I don't want to hear any of you praise him when Andy Reid has to wear spandex this year.
    Harrison gets 22mill in the first 3 years... TO will get 20.68 mill in the first 3 years... Do you really believe if he catches 14TD`s this year the Birds cut him... well maybe now they will...

    "The Eagles structured the deal in such a way that instead of giving him a large signing bonus, they gave Owens a very large roster bonus which can not be spread out over the length of the contract or the five-year limit now in effect in the NFL," the official said. "The Eagles considered it a market-value roster bonus for a Pro Bowl receiver combined with a signing bonus made it a really generous, nice signing bonus that makes them pay (big) in the third year. It is structured in a way that they have to pay him a lot. They have him for two then they have to pay him again in the third year. He doesn’t like that now."
    In 2004, the official - who has access to the actual contract - said Owens received a $6.2 million roster bonus, a $2.3 signing bonus and $660,000 in base salary for a total of $9.16 million. In 2005 he is scheduled to make a salary of $3.25 million. In 2006 Owens is scheduled to collect a $5 million roster bonus, a base salary of $770,000 and a $2.5 million option that will make the deal for that year worth $8.27 million.
    The total value of the first three years of his contract is $20.68 million. Since he signed the deal The Indianapolis Colts inked their star receiver, Marvin Harrison to a seven-year deal worth a reported $67 million with $22 coming in the first three years.The former Roman Catholic star is scheduled to receive a $10 million roster bonus in year two.
    "I don’t think there is anything in that deal that takes advantage of the player in anyway," the official said. "When you analyze deals you look at the guaranteed money which is the signing bonus, roster bonus…you look at the first three years and then you might look at the overall average of the deal. But it’s the first three years which is key. There is only one deal which is better than the Terrell Owens deal in the first three years and that’s Marvin Harrison. And it was done after (Owens’ deal) was done. So what does he want?"
    http://www.footballstories.com/artic....asp?ArtID=276
    Last edited by EEmain; 05-14-2005 at 10:10 AM. Reason: Give links
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    No one doubts TO's abilities. But a contract is a contract. He has NO leg to stand on. If the owner doesn't want to give in, then too bad TO. He's just drawing more negative attention to himself. I still can't get over the "feed my family" comments. That **** cracks me up everytime.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EEmain
    Harrison gets 22mill in the first 3 years... TO will get 20.68 mill in the first 3 years... Do you really believe if he catches 14TD`s this year the Birds cut him... well maybe now they will...



    http://www.footballstories.com/artic....asp?ArtID=276


    Harrison's money for the most part is guaranteed. Owens money is not considering he already had one career threatening injury. They can void almost 7.5 million of that if they choose too.

    I would want it changed if I were Owens.
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    Quote Originally Posted by natedogg
    No one doubts TO's abilities. But a contract is a contract. He has NO leg to stand on. If the owner doesn't want to give in, then too bad TO. He's just drawing more negative attention to himself. I still can't get over the "feed my family" comments. That **** cracks me up everytime.
    A contract is a contract? Give me a break. A contract means **** all in professional sports.

    If he doens't want to give in, then he will get out of the contract VERY easily. You think the EAgles are going to pay a guy that much, take up salary cap room for a guy who doens't want to be there? Wake up and smell the concrete.



    You guys need to stop looking at it from a fan perspective (fantasy land) and start looking at the reality of the situation. You guys got your heads buried in the sand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EEmain
    We will never agree here... My bet says he sits untill he complys... TO and Rosenhaus what a matched pair... If he played and caught 14TD again do you really believe that he would be cut...
    I bet you a million dollars you would change your tune and he would be God again.

    I judge the guy for what he does on the field, not because he wants more money.


    Oh what an evil thing!!!!! Shame on Owens for wanting more money!!!



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    Quote Originally Posted by EEmain
    Harrison gets 22mill in the first 3 years... TO will get 20.68 mill in the first 3 years... Do you really believe if he catches 14TD`s this year the Birds cut him... well maybe now they will...
    Are you kidding me? To save 7.5 million for a player who MIGHT have only one good leg you damn right they will. Wonder if doens't come back from his injury this year? Wonder if he is about 75% of what he was? You think the Eagles are going to pay out those options? Why do you tihnk they didn't sign Douglas 3 years ago? Bad knee and it showed after he signed that large contract with Jacksonville. When it comes to inuries the Eagles shy away everytime. They have a history of it. If I am the player I get what I can NOW. I look at the league and see how many recievers stay at a pro bowl level after they turn 30. How do the Eagles treat older players? They dump them no matter who you are.


    Its a smart business move all the way around and the only reason you don't see it is because it goes against your beloved Eagles. You emotions get in the way of good business practice. You don't leave 7.5 million in doubt when it comes to the NFL. You get what you can get now. Mcnabb did it, Staley did it, Trottier did it, they all do it......

    Did you hate Staley when he held out?


    Fans don't see it because they are jealous of the fact they don't make 7 million a year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    I bet you a million dollars you would change your tune and he would be God again.

    I judge the guy for what he does on the field, not because he wants more money.


    Oh what an evil thing!!!!! Shame on Owens for wanting more money!!!



    I already said I would be back on board...
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    Quote Originally Posted by EEmain
    I already said I would be back on board...
    You're killing me, you're just KILLIN ME!



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    Forget it your right.. everytime he wants money give it to him... maybe next time he will want a piece of the team...
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    Techinally he can't since he's a player.
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    [QUOTE=Bobo]
    Did you hate Staley when he held out?

    [QUOTE]

    Staley didn`t open his mouth just to change feet...
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    [QUOTE=EEmain][QUOTE=Bobo]
    Did you hate Staley when he held out?


    Staley didn`t open his mouth just to change feet...

    No he just didn't report for training camp and as a result was useless for 1/4 of the season. What a team guy!!! Last time I chekd, Owens hasn't skipped training camp but in your eyes he's held out for the season already.

    Go ahead and hate Owens. Its funny that you hate him now yet will hop on board when he actually peforms. Shows what kind of rational arguement you have.



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    No Reid sat him for how long? And when he did start what did he do?

    96 carries for 463yds 4.8per 5 TD`s
    36 catches for 382yds 10.6per 2Td`s

    And that was with a 3 back split....
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    So now you are saying since they guy performed well, its ok for him to sit out trianing camp. So he is a team guy because he actually did what he was supposed to do.

    Ok, I get it now.


    And Reid sat him because he wans't in game shape. Duce stated it himself. That is what happens when you skip all of training camp.
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