Why two brands?

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  1. Why two brands?


    I've always wondered why there exists PrimaForce and SciVation? Why were two brands created in the first place and why haven't they merged?

    Also why have PrimaForce Primal N20 and SciVation VasoCharge?



  2. Because I beleive the crowd intended is not the same with the two brands, and they cover more bases this way.

  3. Because you should be stacking Primal N20 WITH Vasocharge....cha-CHING!!!

    /not really.
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless
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  4. Primaforce/Scivation are the same company. Primaforce was created for those on a budget(like me). They are one of the few companys that have done something like this which I like. They are one of my favorite supplement companys for this reason amoung other reasons(products that work period, excellent prices...etc.)

  5. They are two separate brands with common ownership.

    Scivation = Innovative, Science-based.

    Primaforce = Supplements you need, quality you can trust.

    Primal N2O and Vasocharge are the same. The reason? In some countries, Primaforce is HUGE. In some countries, Scivation is HUGE. We developed what we feel in the perfect PreWO formula. Thus, we used it for both brands.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Scivation View Post
    In some countries, Primaforce is HUGE. In some countries, Scivation is HUGE. We developed what we feel in the perfect PreWO formula. Thus, we used it for both brands.
    Is it true that in Germany, Prima Force is even bigger than David Hasselhoff?
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless

  7. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Is it true that in Germany, Prima Force is even bigger than David Hasselhoff?
    Dude, let's be realistic. Don't Hassle the Hoff!

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Scivation View Post
    Dude, let's be realistic. Don't Hassle the Hoff!
    LOL

  9. Just as many a fine vintner has a second label...so do Avant labs and Scivation. Two great companies.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Scivation View Post
    They are two separate brands with common ownership.

    Scivation = Innovative, Science-based.

    Primaforce = Supplements you need, quality you can trust.

    Primal N2O and Vasocharge are the same. The reason? In some countries, Primaforce is HUGE. In some countries, Scivation is HUGE. We developed what we feel in the perfect PreWO formula. Thus, we used it for both brands.
    Fair enough. However I am not convinced this is helping the consumers in any way.

    At NP, Primal N2O is sold for $28.95

    http://store.anabolicminds.com/produ...-lemonade.html

    At the same website Vasocharge is sold at $34.99

    http://store.anabolicminds.com/produ...347-grams.html

    Can you categorically say that it is the NP that is jacking up the price while Scivation/PrimaForce sells the two products to NP at exact same price?

    I am not trying to point fingers but as a consumer I sure have a right to know.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Saurabh View Post
    Fair enough. However I am not convinced this is helping the consumers in any way.

    At NP, Primal N2O is sold for $28.95

    http://store.anabolicminds.com/produ...-lemonade.html

    At the same website Vasocharge is sold at $34.99

    http://store.anabolicminds.com/produ...347-grams.html

    Can you categorically say that it is the NP that is jacking up the price while Scivation/PrimaForce sells the two products to NP at exact same price?

    I am not trying to point fingers but as a consumer I sure have a right to know.
    Who said they are being sold to NP at the same price?
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless

  12. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Who said they are being sold to NP at the same price?
    Didnt Mark, the CEO of Scivation say, and I quote - Primal N2O and Vasocharge are the same.

    Why would two products that are same, and this comes from the maker of the two products mind you, be sold at different cost?

    Unless of course the two brands were created to do exactly that - sell same products for different cost.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Saurabh View Post
    Didnt Mark, the CEO of Scivation say, and I quote - Primal N2O and Vasocharge are the same.

    Why would two products that are same, and this comes from the maker of the two products mind you, be sold at different cost?

    Unless of course the two brands were created to do exactly that - sell same products for different cost.
    Different brands have different market positions.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Saurabh View Post
    Didnt Mark, the CEO of Scivation say, and I quote - Primal N2O and Vasocharge are the same.

    Why would two products that are same, and this comes from the maker of the two products mind you, be sold at different cost?

    Unless of course the two brands were created to do exactly that - sell same products for different cost.
    Marketing...

    (I successfully avoided the 'Marketing 101' response.. damn!)

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Saurabh View Post
    Didnt Mark, the CEO of Scivation say, and I quote - Primal N2O and Vasocharge are the same.

    Why would two products that are same, and this comes from the maker of the two products mind you, be sold at different cost?

    Unless of course the two brands were created to do exactly that - sell same products for different cost.
    Have you ever gone down the cereal aisle in any store? You DO realize that most of the store brands are made by Kellogg's, etc, but priced differently.

    Some people prefer to feel a part of a company with a certain vibe, others another vibe, and yet a third that just want the cheapest option.

    Yes...marketing.

    BTW, Marc...you were looking extremely thick at the Arnold. Good to see you sporting the insane mass I remember so well.
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless

  16. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Have you ever gone down the cereal aisle in any store? You DO realize that most of the store brands are made by Kellogg's, etc, but priced differently.

    Some people prefer to feel a part of a company with a certain vibe, others another vibe, and yet a third that just want the cheapest option.
    I want to know what kind of vibe a customer has when buying AST's DGC. Brand + high price point = TEH HYOOOGENESSS!!

  17. Quote Originally Posted by ShakesAllDay View Post
    I want to know what kind of vibe a customer has when buying AST's DGC. Brand + high price point = TEH HYOOOGENESSS!!
    I don't even WANT to know what kind of vibes you are buying.



    /bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Scivation View Post
    Different brands have different market positions.
    So Scivation Vasocharge and PrimaForce N2O are same ingredients and yet the price differential is 20-30%. What are the different market positions of these two products? Or are you just taking easy way out with marketing Mark?

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Saurabh View Post
    So Scivation Vasocharge and PrimaForce N2O are same ingredients and yet the price differential is 20-30%. What are the different market positions of these two products? Or are you just taking easy way out with marketing Mark?
    Wow. Seriously. I think people have explained this in as simple terms as possible. Unless you go to school and take any basic marketing classes, you are obviously going to remain clueless. THE FOUR P'S NUKKA!

    Click Me!!!

    Just take what has been given to you and drop it.

    /doing my part for the community

  20. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Have you ever gone down the cereal aisle in any store? You DO realize that most of the store brands are made by Kellogg's, etc, but priced differently.
    Have you ever gone to a car company? Would you pay the price of a Lexus for a Toyota? Even if ultimately both are owned by Toyota companies? I sure wouldnt.

    Kellogs makes a bunch of cereals(I should know because I worked at their Head Quarters at Battle Creek) but they are different products and not the same. The day Kellogg President/CEO comes out saying "Our Cereal K and Bran Cereal are the same and we sell the former for 3$ a box and latter for 5$" you can bet most consumers would hate Kellogg for doing that.

    I appreciate Mark's honesty in accepting the two products as same but it does bug as to why I should deal with a company who does this to its consumers.

  21. Just take what has been given to you and drop it.
    Sure, if you say so

    I will await Mark's response on this. You are of course free to ignore my posts

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Saurabh View Post
    Have you ever gone to a car company? Would you pay the price of a Lexus for a Toyota? Even if ultimately both are owned by Toyota companies? I sure wouldnt.

    Kellogs makes a bunch of cereals(I should know because I worked at their Head Quarters at Battle Creek) but they are different products and not the same. The day Kellogg President/CEO comes out saying "Our Cereal K and Bran Cereal are the same and we sell the former for 3$ a box and latter for 5$" you can bet most consumers would hate Kellogg for doing that.

    I appreciate Mark's honesty in accepting the two products as same but it does bug as to why I should deal with a company who does this to its consumers.
    This is done constantly. Honestly, I can't see Marc "doing" anything to his consumers other than offering them an economically priced product through Prima Force, and a prime product image through Scivation. Some honestly PREFER the more expensive product (muscletech anyone) simply because they "feel" it works better and has a prettier label.
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless

  23. No, I like to watch a good schoolin'.



    But, no harm intended... I'm just in one of those moods today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saurabh View Post
    Sure, if you say so

    I will await Mark's response on this. You are of course free to ignore my posts

  24. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    This is done constantly. Honestly, I can't see Marc "doing" anything to his consumers other than offering them an economically priced product through Prima Force, and a prime product image through Scivation. Some honestly PREFER the more expensive product (muscletech anyone) simply because they "feel" it works better and has a prettier label.
    We may be overanalyzing this issue really. I personally think that if Product A and Product B are the same, then they should be sold at the same price. Yes I wouldnt mine paying extra if say Product B had something else in it.

    I am not ganging up on Mark here(not that he would care). Just that I am an avid user of his products and as a consumer-producer it is always good to clear such misgivings. Had I not cared for his products(specially Xtend and Vasocharge) I would not be in Scivation sub-forum and some place at AM.

  25. It is just understanding the market, rather than trying to change it.

    Honestly, the margins for PF are small and the margins for Scivation are a bit higher, given the psychological FACTS of differing consumer types.

    If they consolidated, you would probably be paying MORE for the PF product (margins would be averaged, and prices evened out), so you are truly coming out ahead BIG time by picking up the PF version.

    I still see PF as performing a courtesy service, much like a generic version, and don't see the reason for any even mild hostility.
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless

  26. Quote Originally Posted by Saurabh View Post
    We may be overanalyzing this issue really. I personally think that if Product A and Product B are the same, then they should be sold at the same price. Yes I wouldnt mine paying extra if say Product B had something else in it.

    I am not ganging up on Mark here(not that he would care). Just that I am an avid user of his products and as a consumer-producer it is always good to clear such misgivings. Had I not cared for his products(specially Xtend and Vasocharge) I would not be in Scivation sub-forum and some place at AM.
    The bottom line is that Primaforce does well in some countries and Scivation does well in others. We created what we felt was the perfect pre workout mix. We didn't want to make two perfect formulas, so boom, we have this.

    I am not going to go over pricing. This isn't saying that we operate on huge margins, but it is saying that we have two brands with different identities.

    As an educated consumer, you know the scoop and can act as such. Toyota does own Lexus and the Corolla is made on the same production line as the Lexus LS. I drive a Corolla. See, our margins do suck! LOL

  27. Quote Originally Posted by Scivation View Post
    I drive a Corolla.
    The wife and I have a black '05 Corolla S. With exception for some engine noise and wind noise at higher speeds (70+mph), we really like the car. It gets really good gas mileage and has cool white tac/speed dials. Plus, the S is a little perky... gets around pretty good w/ a light load. And, the 6-speaker sound system isn't that bad.



    Even though I thought the Corolla Super Bowl commercial was of the ultimate gheyness, the new 'quiet' Corolla looks very appealing.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by ShakesAllDay View Post
    The wife and I have a black '05 Corolla S. With exception for some engine noise and wind noise at higher speeds (70+mph), we really like the car. It gets really good gas mileage and has cool white tac/speed dials. Plus, the S is a little perky... gets around pretty good w/ a light load. And, the 6-speaker sound system isn't that bad.



    Even though I thought the Corolla Super Bowl commercial was of the ultimate gheyness, the new 'quiet' Corolla looks very appealing.
    Dude, that looks EXACTLY like a Lexus.
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless

  29. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Dude, that looks EXACTLY like a Lexus.
    BRO! It's the SWEET lighting. STANDARDIZED for 99% MAXIMUM reflection.


  30. This is the reason I love this company. There is no other supplement company like this. Primaforce is great, just bottle with a yellow and black label and what is in the product for most of their products. That is great. I don't care about pretty labels and all that crap. However, there are a lot of 20 somethings that see something shiny and just want to touch it!.

  31. I can't understand why this post drug out so long, haha. If you know the two products are the same and you're saying that you don't exactly have the money to buy the more expensive one...wouldn't you just buy the cheaper one?
    Millennium Sport Technologies Representative/Sponsored Athlete
    www.millenniumsport.net

  32. I personally think that a company has a right to charge whatever they want to charge, just a a consumer has a right to buy products within his/her budget.

    I assume whatever a company wants to charge, with a few regulated exceptions, should be determined solely by that company and should not subject to popular vote, other than consumer expenditures.

  33. Quote Originally Posted by Scivation View Post
    I am not going to go over pricing. This isn't saying that we operate on huge margins, but it is saying that we have two brands with different identities.
    Fair enough Mark. I am personally not convinced (and yes I am stubborn that way) but I definitely appreciate you putting forth your point of view.

  34. Quote Originally Posted by Saurabh View Post
    Fair enough Mark. I am personally not convinced (and yes I am stubborn that way) but I definitely appreciate you putting forth your point of view.
    Instead of repeatedly saying "I don't believe you", why don't you come up with some sort of intelligent counter-argument or at least give a semi-intelligent reason why are you cannot grasp this simple marketing concept.

    Honestly... you seem to be trolling in this thread.

  35. Quote Originally Posted by ShakesAllDay View Post
    Instead of repeatedly saying "I don't believe you", why don't you come up with some sort of intelligent counter-argument or at least give a semi-intelligent reason why are you cannot grasp this simple marketing concept.

    Honestly... you seem to be trolling in this thread.
    I am honestly surprised by your incessant hostility mate. Thus far I can't remember being rude, or questionable to you. Heck I have not even responded to you, directly or indirectly, so not sure why you are getting your undies in a twist here??

    I have maintained my stance rather clearly to Mark. That is, if two products are the same I as a consumer shall pay the same price for them. Mark disagrees and I am fine with that. It is his product, his company and his business model. Fair enough.

    Whats not so clear about this?

  36. Quote Originally Posted by Saurabh View Post
    I am honestly surprised by your incessant hostility mate. Thus far I can't remember being rude, or questionable to you. Heck I have not even responded to you, directly or indirectly, so not sure why you are getting your undies in a twist here??

    I have maintained my stance rather clearly to Mark. That is, if two products are the same I as a consumer shall pay the same price for them. Mark disagrees and I am fine with that. It is his product, his company and his business model. Fair enough.

    Whats not so clear about this?
    Your lack of any intelligent defense of your stance is slightly disheartening. All we are going to keep getting from you is "I disagree".

    If you have no background in marketing, then maybe all is lost because obviously laymen terms aren't working.

    This topic really should have been squashed within the first few posts. But, again, you keep at this "I disagree" attitude with nothing intelligent to back it up.

    So, I don't understand why you keep on with apparently baseless thoughts and opinions.

    Oh, and my panties aren't all in a bunch. You seem like a nice enough fellow. But, you are doing no justice to your "all things should be equal" opinion.

    :hot:

  37. Group hug?

  38. Quote Originally Posted by Scivation View Post
    Group hug?
    Scivation group hug, or Prima Force group hug (I only can afford so much)?
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless

  39. Quote Originally Posted by ShakesAllDay View Post
    Your lack of any intelligent defense of your stance is slightly disheartening. All we are going to keep getting from you is "I disagree".

    If you have no background in marketing, then maybe all is lost because obviously laymen terms aren't working.

    This topic really should have been squashed within the first few posts. But, again, you keep at this "I disagree" attitude with nothing intelligent to back it up.

    So, I don't understand why you keep on with apparently baseless thoughts and opinions.

    Oh, and my panties aren't all in a bunch. You seem like a nice enough fellow. But, you are doing no justice to your "all things should be equal" opinion.

    :hot:
    I suppose it is only better that you judge how "intelligent" you are. I am not here to judge your intelligence and I sure would appreciate if you extended me the same courtsey.

    As for my baseless thoughts and opinions, I am just dealing directly with the CEO/President of the company whose products I use extensively, so with all due respect please eff off! Now feel free to ignore my post hereon or in the least keep your opinions, about me, to yourself. Retard!

    Mark, nothing against you. Your products are definitely solid and yes we should agree to disagree on your marketing/price policy.

    Cheers!

  40. Quote Originally Posted by Saurabh View Post
    so with all due respect please eff off! Now feel free to ignore my post hereon or in the least keep your opinions, about me, to yourself. Retard!



  

  
 

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