BCAA use to add in liver regeneration during PCT? Perhaps Bobo can chime in.

Beast

Beast

"He's not human!"
I was looking through some BCAA abstracts the other day and I came across some interesting stuff involving BCAA and the liver. I am a HUGE fan of free-form BCAA due to their anabolic/anti-catabolic effects. That being said, I think they would be a great addition to any PCT for their anabolic/anti-catabolic properties alone. But after coming across these abstracts, it appears BCAA may have other beneficial effects.

Branched-chain amino acids, hepatocyte growth factor and protein production in the liver.

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Hepatol Res. 2004 Dec;30S:14-18. Epub 2004 Nov 5.

Although the functions associated with differentiation are thought to be suppressed when cells proliferate, recent studies have shown that several mitogens can stimulate functions such as protein production under certain physiological conditions. Hepatocyte growth factor (HGF) is now considered to be a pluripotent factor and has been shown to stimulate the differentiated functions of hepatocytes, as well as their proliferation. The use of HGF for the treatment of liver disease, especially hepatic failure, has been suggested. Because patients with decompensated liver cirrhosis have decreased plasma concentrations of branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs), many investigations in laboratory animals and patients have been designed to demonstrate the benefits of supplementation of BCAAs on the hepatic metabolism of proteins. However, the mechanisms involved in the specific actions of BCAAs remain to be elucidated. Amino acids are molecules that modulate numerous cellular functions. BCAAs are known to influence gene expression, cellular metabolism, amino acid transport, and protein turnover. In this paper, we show the potential of BCAAs for stimulating HGF synthesis in the liver and discuss the possibility that BCAAs stimulate protein production by hepatocytes through the induction of HGF.



Significance of branched chain amino acids as possible stimulators of hepatocyte growth factor.

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Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 2004 Jan 9;313(2):411-6.

Amino acids can serve as regulatory molecules that modulate numerous cellular functions. Branched chain amino acids (BCAAs) are known to exert influences on cellular metabolism, amino acid transport, protein turn over, and gene expression. However, the mechanisms involved in the specific effect of BCAAs have not been clarified. BCAA supplementation therapy is a current treatment for patients with liver cirrhosis, therefore, specific BCAA activities should be examined. Hepatocyte growth factor (HGF) is considered to be a pleiotropic factor, and is reported to modulate gene expression and to stimulate the proliferation and functions of many cell types, including hepatocytes. A potential application of HGF for several types of diseases has been postulated. Here, we describe the potential of BCAAs as a therapeutic agent that acts through the induction of HGF production in the liver.


Update on branched-chain amino acid supplementation in liver diseases.

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Curr Opin Gastroenterol. 2005 Mar;21(2):197-200.

PURPOSE OF REVIEW: Branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs) have a peculiar role in whole-body nitrogen metabolism. BCAAs are a substrate for protein synthesis, and have been used to conserve or restore muscle mass in advanced liver disease. In addition, the competitive action of BCAAs on amino acid transport across the blood-brain barrier may improve hepatic encephalopathy. RECENT FINDINGS: The effects of branched-chain amino acids on nutrition and ultimately on prognosis of patients with advanced cirrhosis have been confirmed in a large multicenter, long-term trial. Similarly, BCAA treatment improved the prognosis of patients with hepatocellular carcinoma, treated by chemoembolization. The mechanism for the beneficial effects of BCAA is likely to depend on the stimulating activity of BCAA on hepatocyte growth factor, favoring liver regeneration. SUMMARY: After an experience of 25 years with branched-chain amino acids, new data supports their beneficial effect in liver diseases. Although the number of patients who cannot tolerate dietary proteins in amounts sufficient to meet their increased catabolism is probably low, in this specific setting BCAAs remain the sole treatment of proved efficacy.


New support for branched-chain amino acid supplementation in advanced hepatic failure.

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Nutr Rev. 2004 Jan;62(1):33-8.

Nutritional supplementation with branched-chain amino acids (BCAA) has been a topic of considerable debate for more than two decades. Several studies have demonstrated that supplementation with BCAA is associated with improvement of the catabolic state commonly seen in people with cirrhosis, whereas other studies have showed an improvement in portosystemic encephalopathy in patients with liver disease. Some studies have also shown there to be no benefit in BCAA supplementation in advanced cirrhosis. A recent large clinical trial showed that long-term BCAA supplementation may be useful in preventing progressive hepatic failure and improving liver function in some patients.


There are a bunch of other studies on this topic. I am interested in hearing what others think about these abstracts and topic.
 
Well since aminos (mainly glutamine, cystein, glycine, taurine) are key nutrients in the detoxification process and people with kidney disease often have problems with increased protein intake I could definetly see why it would help them. Not sure about those with healthy livers though.

For the most part the liver can be "beaten down" pretty bad but there hasn't been any negatives that I can see for taking BCAA's. In fact its quite the opposite.
 
Bobo said:
there hasn't been any negatives that I can see for taking BCAA's. In fact its quite the opposite.
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That's what I'm getting at. Seems like BCAA would be a good addition to PCT due to their anabolic/regenerative properties in the liver.
 
Well it is the main regulator of protein metabolism so I can't really find a situation in whcih BCAA's wouldn't have a positive effect. It's also the main glucose buffer so it tough to tell how much of those BCAA's are being converted into glucose as well.

You usually can tell by how fast you can clear the room :)
 
Interesting... I'm a big fan of BCAA's also, makes me wanna put them on the year-round supp list.. :thumbsup:
 
bigpetefox said:
Interesting... I'm a big fan of BCAA's also, makes me wanna put them on the year-round supp list.. :thumbsup:
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I've read that BCAA's make up ~35% content of muscle tissue.
By the way, if you are clearing rooms wouldn't that mean that it was incompletely digested and not even have the opportunity to convert to glucose?
 
And what does that tell you? :)


Digested? Yes. Absorbed? Maybe. Converted to/from other substances. Maybe. Protein turnover rate is controlled by many factors. Usually if you are getting to much it will be converted into waste products. Generally the more you are "clearing the room", the more you are utlizing aminos for other functions besides protein synthesis. Try consuming a high protein diet with BCAA's while cutting. You will STILL clear the room :)
 
It never made me gassy, junk food and lots of veggies/fiber makes me explosive..
 
I can melt the paint on the walls if I take too much.
 
So, would 40-50g be excessive? I use Optimum's BCAA 5000 powder, 4-5 tsp a day in either an electrolyte drink, or my pwo shake..
 
During those times, probably not for you.

Usually if you are clearing the room it means you might have a buildup of the sulfur containing amino's (one of the main nutrients n liver detoficiation). It doens't mean you will increase the amount of gas excreted, it mean the gas that does escape is really potent because of its sulfur content. Contrary to popular belief the main factor in "clearing the room" is sulfur, not methane.
 
Bobo said:
And what does that tell you? :)


Digested? Yes. Absorbed? Maybe. Converted to/from other substances. Maybe. Protein turnover rate is controlled by many factors. Usually if you are getting to much it will be converted into waste products. Generally the more you are "clearing the room", the more you are utlizing aminos for other functions besides protein synthesis. Try consuming a high protein diet with BCAA's while cutting. You will STILL clear the room :)
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It tells me that during heavy resistance training BCAA's are an option.

I am still not clear on the "clearing the room" though. I was working with the understanding that if the aminos are absorbed they have just left the GI tract and therefore would have no impact on increasing Gas. Incompletely absorbed aminos, I can see them causing gas. Once they have been absorbed, I thought deamination and then utilization were the next steps ammonia/urea being the waste products and other utilizations besides muscle synthesis; other aminos, gluconeogenesis, TCA cycle, neurotransmitters, and :( fat.

Sulfur, very interesting.

Please let me know where/if I am off.
 
Bobo said:
During those times, probably not for you.

Usually if you are clearing the room it means you might have a buildup of the sulfur containing amino's (one of the main nutrients n liver detoficiation). It doens't mean you will increase the amount of gas excreted, it mean the gas that does escape is really potent because of its sulfur content. Contrary to popular belief the main factor in "clearing the room" is sulfur, not methane.
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Which sulfur containing build up the easiest? I have had inexplicable paint melting with no change in diet form time to time. I can never figure out WTF is causing it. Maybe I finally have a clue.
 
jonny21 said:
It tells me that during heavy resistance training BCAA's are an option.

I am still not clear on the "clearing the room" though. I was working with the understanding that if the aminos are absorbed they have just left the GI tract and therefore would have no impact on increasing Gas. Incompletely absorbed aminos, I can see them causing gas. Once they have been absorbed, I thought deamination and then utilization were the next steps ammonia/urea being the waste products and other utilizations besides muscle synthesis; other aminos, gluconeogenesis, TCA cycle, neurotransmitters, and :( fat.

Sulfur, very interesting.

Please let me know where/if I am off.
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I dind't say it INCREASED gas, I said you would clear the room WITH the gas because of the sulfur content. IOW, what you pass is lethal.

They definetly can have an impact once they are absorbed.
 
SJA said:
Which sulfur containing build up the easiest? I have had inexplicable paint melting with no change in diet form time to time. I can never figure out WTF is causing it. Maybe I finally have a clue.
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Cystein, Taurine and Methionine are the primary ones and if you have increased liver function due to toxins you could definetly have an increas in the production of those since they are main nutrients in phase 2 of the detoxification process.

But that might not be your problem....it could other reasons as well such as fiber content in your diet.
 
Bobo said:
Cystein, Taurine and Methionine are the primary ones and if you have increased liver function due to toxins you could definetly have an increas in the production of those since they are main nutrients in phase 2 of the detoxification process.

But that might not be your problem....it could other reasons as well such as fiber content in your diet.
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Thanks Bobo. I've kept tabs on my eating (pretty much the same each day) and just can't understand why it would fluctuate. I'll go for a couple weeks with no problem and then WHAM...I get a few days of sulfur. At first, I thought that maybe it was the aftermath of my cheat meal, but that turned out to be a farse. When you mentioned this, I thought that maybe I'm on to something else to explore.

I appreciate your response.
 
I'm a big fan of BCAA/EAA powders in excess, and I think the idea of using more AT LEAST during PCT is very wise. Some say the effect is marginal, but sometimes the margins are what count (for gains AND to keep them!)
 
Bobo said:
I dind't say it INCREASED gas, I said you would clear the room WITH the gas because of the sulfur content. IOW, what you pass is lethal.

They definetly can have an impact once they are absorbed.
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I see. :)
 
SJA said:
Thanks Bobo. I've kept tabs on my eating (pretty much the same each day) and just can't understand why it would fluctuate. I'll go for a couple weeks with no problem and then WHAM...I get a few days of sulfur. At first, I thought that maybe it was the aftermath of my cheat meal, but that turned out to be a farse. When you mentioned this, I thought that maybe I'm on to something else to explore.

I appreciate your response.
Click to expand...

I am the same way SJA, no change in diet then for a few days I'll blow it up and its rediculous. No increased fiber/protein or fat intake.
 
Derek_aka_Beast said:
That's what I'm getting at. Seems like BCAA would be a good addition to PCT due to their anabolic/regenerative properties in the liver.
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I had some additional good info on BCAA benefits in the liver in one of my other books (let me see if I can find it)

I've also read some good info on lecithin (phosphatidyl choline, phosphatidyl ethanolamine, phosphatidyl inositol, phosphatidyl serine, etc) in this regard also. Pretty safe stuff in general as well. It's just various essential fatty acids in phospholipid form and I've seen a lot of info in regards to liver benefits as it improves fluidity, liver transport and stimulates collagenase . It may help especially as a "preventative".

You might have already known this, so I guess this is for other people.
 
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