Snag continues his off-season REDEFINing
- 12-22-2012, 12:18 AM
Snag i stole your onion bagel breakfast sandwhich! Makin one in the morning, except its two slices bacon, two whole eggs and a slice of reduced fat cheese.
You graze all day huh, i do three large meals and one protein shake (postworkout)
Classic endo, if i graze all day i slap all the weight on the midsectionPsalms 62:1-62:2
- 12-22-2012, 09:00 AM
yeah this isn't something on a whim, rather it took me a number of yrs to figure out that this is what works best for me.
i have now been a multiple-meal-daily kinda guy for, oh, a decade or so.
Ie 3-4 meals just curious as it seems with the current research it may be beneficial to keep you leaner and help you keep that metabolism working properly. Mainly your liver still being able to burn stored fuel when the time comes
what is this "current research" you speak of?
- 12-22-2012, 09:14 AM
More along the lines of one or 2 studies. Then old studies showing Leptin and insulinevels fall after certain times lets say about 3-4 hour in normal individuals.
Ill have to post more when I actually wake up. Still kind of out of it
12-22-2012, 09:40 AM
Can't seen to find the ones I'm looking for
12-22-2012, 10:06 AM
hmm leptin and ghrelin huh..that's not new.
and it's more complicated than what you infer.
there's more to that than simple timing/frequency..another component in that equation is the micros of those macros.
anyway, some food for thought here:
Eating Frequency: Not as simple as it seems
ME Lifestyle, ME Miscellaneous Health and Fitness, ME Nutrition
by Jade Teta
EVERYONE trying to improve health, fitness or fat loss should filter all changes through their individual metabolic tendencies and psychological preferences. This is the core teaching of Metabolic Effect, hence the acronym ME. This blog explores the idea of meal frequency. I believe the approach to eating frequency is viewed from a very narrow focus in the health and fitness industry. And I believe the issue is not completely thought out by many fat loss coaches. Questions on meal frequency are also becoming one some of the most asked questions we receive at ME. So, I have compiled the 5 major points on this issue as I see it.
1) Science is useful only when translatable to the individual. In other words, it is absolutely true from the science point of view that eating less frequently or even fasting will have more beneficial effects on lowering insulin and leptin. So, I agree with many fat loss experts on this point. However, it is important to avoid a narrow minded focus and look beyond simple calorie consideration or isolated considerations of certain hormones. There are both direct effects and secondary outcomes related to meals and they should both be considered. Acute effects of eating less frequently can raise the hunger hormone ghrelin. This is a hormone rarely considered by those preaching less frequent eating. Large surges in ghrelin will slow fat loss but more importantly activate the reward centers in our brain making us want to eat larger amounts and also causing us to crave the wrong things (1) (2) (3). Skipping meals will also, in many raise the stress hormones, which again lead to cravings specifically for fat & sugar (4).
For many, and we would say this is true for the majority of those who struggle with body change, opting to eat less meals or fast will lead to compensatory reactions (due to other hormonal effects) of increased hunger, uncontrollable cravings and wild swings in energy. Which, of course, leads to eating more at future meals and eating more of the wrong things (large amounts of fat, sugar, starch). So, a strategy that seemed at first to be beneficial to leptin and insulin ends up making things worse. This, in my mind, is the single biggest oversight made by fat loss coaches who preach the “eat less frequently” approach. It simply does not work for most people who are beginning this lifestyle. It certainly will work for some, and if you happen to already be very lean and active it will likely have a better chance of being successful for you. That is a major point that seems to be neglected; lean and obese people are not built the same and will respond differently to meal frequency.
2) Eating & stress both impact insulin. Many people forget there are two ways to become insulin resistant 1) eat your way there and 2) stress your way there. For many skipping meals results in increased stress hormone production leading to insulin resistance and the same hunger, energy and craving issue I spoke of above. In order to understand this, a person must understand endocrinology 101, namely stress hormones raise blood sugar when food is not there to do it instead. For those with more balanced metabolic processes this is useful and beneficial and is not a real issue, but in some it can be a significant contribution to fat loss resistance and deranged eating habits. This issue is not as common as other issues, but it seems to be completely ignored by most fat loss practitioners making me wonder if they are even aware of this action of stress hormones.
3) The more active you are the more you will need to eat to maintain muscle. One good way to lower your muscle mass is to eat less and exercise more. Does this happen to everyone? No. There are certainly those who can fast multiple days weekly and maintain their lean body mass. But it is a mistake to take these individuals and apply their success to everyone. They are in the minority, and have a genetic propensity to remain more anabolic than most. The International Society of Sports Nutrition recently released their position statement on meal frequency and point out that an active person will likely do best with more meals (5). Since all fat loss seekers are active, or at least should be, eating more frequently is probably a better approach from this regard as well.
4) Food is on every corner and your physiology is built to seek it out every chance you get. Common sense dictates that food avoidance is not going to work over the long run as a lifestyle change. One thing a clinical practice in body change will teach you is that people have a very difficult time trying to win a battle of wills against their physiology. The overweight and obese have an even more difficult time. It is called YO-YO dieting for a reason. The eat less mantra has been played out and it has been shown not to work in the real world, no matter how much sense it seems to make and no matter how much initial results seem to prove its merit. In the end, it results in individuals who are fatter. Did you know 66% of dieters are fatter 2 years later then they were before the diet (6)? The eat less approach is partly responsible in my mind.
5) There is more than one way to control insulin. You can either control the amount of food you eat (a bad idea if you follow the above arguments), or focus on the type of food you eat. Eating less starch, more protein, and higher fiber, and doing so more frequently, is highly beneficial to insulin levels. It may not lower insulin to the same degree as fasting or eating less frequent meals, but it will do so in a way that is less likely to cause wild swings in blood sugar that then cause hunger spikes, cravings and energy lows.
The idea that frequent eating is some people’s problem is something I would adamantly disagree with. People’s issues with food are almost always about food choices, which lead to more food and disrupted hormones at that meal and meals to come. It is really about WHAT people are eating not how often. The truth as I see it is many people eat the wrong things too often which is the worst of all worlds.
Here is a quick protocol we use at ME with beginners to the fat loss lifestyle. Notice how there is a gradual transition from frequent eating to other approaches on meal frequency. It may also be interesting to see the use of “nighttime fasting”.
1) Start with 4 to 6 meals per day eaten every two to four hours. Eat when you are NOT hungry to avoid overeating and increase the chances of making better choices..
2) Avoid food from 10-14 hours nightly (depending on burner type)
3) Adjust your carb tipping point based on your responses to hunger cravings and energy
4) Find your fat loss formula by adjusting the carb tipping point, searching for and removing trigger foods, and controlling lifestyle factors like sleep & stress.
5) Once the metabolism is healed, healthy and less reactive, meal timing is adjusted. Experimenting with less frequent eating becomes possible and more beneficial (because their is less risk of compensatory reactions). This usually takes between 3 to 12 months to get this point for most of our clients
4) Epel, et. al. Stress may add bite to appetite in women: a laboratory study of stress-induced cortisol and eating behavior. Psychoneuroendocrinology. 2001;26(1):37-49
12-22-2012, 10:37 AM
12-22-2012, 10:46 AM
12-22-2012, 10:48 AM
There is a lot to put into place.
Some is speculation but from what I have seen in all my clients thus far is only positive
However it also Lies in body fat levels when doing 3 vs 6 or more "meals" a day.
I don't want to take away from the thread but I encourage discussion between interested individuals
Maybe I will make a thread post up some stuff and we can have intelligent convos. I've arena lot of threads become personal attacks. Lol
12-22-2012, 11:00 AM
12-22-2012, 11:02 AM
If you don't mind shoot me an email to my gmail account and ill send you the paper.Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0
Don't really want it out I. The open Ect
12-22-2012, 11:48 AM
Interesting discussions. Personally feel distinctions need to be made for the specifics of the applications being discussed, but I am a 4 meal eating bro checking in.
12-22-2012, 12:39 PM
12-23-2012, 10:05 AM
Egg McSnag has been my go-to breakfast last couple weeks, altho it's a lil different every time.
like today - for the meat it was 5oz ground turkey; the bread was 15-grain.
just picked up some Ezekiel, so will be rotating to that tomorrow (along with beef) as i plan on a fairly strict diet this next week.
12-23-2012, 11:10 AM
12-23-2012, 12:23 PM
12-23-2012, 12:26 PM
WEEK #5 SUMMARY
five weeks in now on 1-Alpha (last two weeks stacked with M-Sten)
getting a bit more of lethargy these last couple days, is worst today. workouts have still been good, but it's been an effort to get going these last 2 sessions..once i get going, i'm good.
still have a ridiculous muscle pump all day long - as well as back pump here and there, still nothing debilitating.
mood has been good, pretty even keel i'd say. (haven't snapped lately lol)
weight is holding ~ 208. it was cool yesterday tho, when i had some shoes & clothes on (jeans & sweatshirt), jumped on the scale and it said 220. i know 12lbs worth of attire and food in my belly right? still cool tho.
diet wasn't quite as on point as i had planned this past week, so i am stepping things up a bit for this next week..
my plan is to take cals down before pct, then i will bump cals up again..well, that's that plan anyway.
pic from this past week.
12-23-2012, 03:56 PM
12-23-2012, 04:24 PM
right with you lethargy is bad for me 4 days and it seem si can get no energy after my workouts. trying powershots to see if that will help.
12-23-2012, 06:14 PM
12-23-2012, 07:22 PM
12-23-2012, 07:25 PM
12-24-2012, 09:49 AM
12-24-2012, 10:26 AM
12-24-2012, 05:30 PM
Re: Snag continues his off-season REDEFINing
Good stuff looking great Snags. Been adjusting my meal plans a but from the fasting to about 4 meals. Going to go back to what I know works for me... low-moderate carbs with refeeds. See if I can't get to be a big lean boy like you...
Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
12-25-2012, 07:54 AM
12-25-2012, 11:06 AM
12-25-2012, 11:32 AM
12-25-2012, 02:06 PM
12-26-2012, 10:00 AM
so it was the cleanest-eating christmas for me since, well....actually i think it was the cleanest, period.
i said it before and i'll say it again - i am on a mission.
interesting weight session this day, as i did hams/bis/tris. this is not a combination i use often at all, and tho i am (loosely) following my training regimen, the plan itself allows for variation as needed. which is cool - cuz i like to continuously shake things up anyway.
felt great today!
i have added exemestane and stano to the mix for these last two weeks of cycle.
12-26-2012, 12:53 PM
12-27-2012, 09:14 AM
mine sucked ! i ate way to much sugar. now i will get my a@@ back in gear. back is still giving me a pain but i am continuing the workouts just at home again since the gym is closed for the holiday and i am keeping the kids!
12-27-2012, 03:24 PM
Way to keep it clean Snags! I did not but that is okay I enjoyed it and will enjoy the trek to get my lean back on.
@DW yeah the intermittent fasting is great, and I love it. I just feel that I would like to have a protein shake post workout and then 3 squares for a while and see how I like that. As far as the lower carb with refeeds I have always done better with that no matter if I am eating IF style or not. Pretty good chance I will be doing IF type fasting on burn days and then my PWO shake and 3 squares on build days.
Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
12-27-2012, 05:06 PM
thanks Chris. felt pretty good actually..and the results of deprivation this week have been rather accelerated.
dropping the excess & tightening things up, weight at ~204 this morning.
might have to change my dietary plan a lil bit, go back to excess cals a bit quicker than i had anticipated..we'll see.
i'll get a shot of the wheels up at some point..it's a lil harder for me to get a good shot of those guys, taking pic myself.
wheels are doing fine tho.
12-27-2012, 05:16 PM
Looking excellent Steve! Leanness is back, size is still intact, you have really just mastered the nutrition this past week. While we were unwrapping presents you went ahead and Unwrapped Your Abs!
Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
12-27-2012, 05:30 PM
12-27-2012, 05:41 PM
12-27-2012, 07:57 PM
12-27-2012, 08:21 PM
12-27-2012, 08:51 PM
12-28-2012, 07:53 AM
Similar Forum Threads
- By grexx in forum NutraplanetReplies: 34Last Post: 10-09-2007, 09:23 PM
- By frankpt in forum PicsReplies: 5Last Post: 03-15-2007, 05:37 AM
- By phasar in forum General ChatReplies: 10Last Post: 05-30-2006, 04:16 PM
- By ironguru in forum PicsReplies: 8Last Post: 07-02-2005, 12:55 AM