[strategicmove]

Originally Posted by Ziquor

Maybe some type of L-Theanine / Rhodiola rosea type product? Bulk phenibut's incredible for relaxing at lower doses but it seems to modulate the GABA receptors a bit too much and cause some dependence. Picamilon works well too. 'They' say it doesn't induce dependency or withdrawal but the 'they' who say this or the ones who sell/profit off of it. Seems to me anything that moderately or more stimulates the GABA receptors, especially the Gaba-a receptors, almost has to cause dependency & withdrawal to some extent. This is the same way benzodiazepines (xanax, valium, klonopin, etc.) work.

Sounds good. Only watch-out may be Rhodiola Rosea. I find it great, no question. It's just that it keeps some users alert and interferes with their sleep (if taken pre-bed).

[T-Bone]

Originally Posted by Ziquor

Maybe some type of L-Theanine / Rhodiola rosea type product? Bulk phenibut's incredible for relaxing at lower doses but it seems to modulate the GABA receptors a bit too much and cause some dependence. Picamilon works well too. 'They' say it doesn't induce dependency or withdrawal but the 'they' who say this or the ones who sell/profit off of it. Seems to me anything that moderately or more stimulates the GABA receptors, especially the Gaba-a receptors, almost has to cause dependency & withdrawal to some extent. This is the same way benzodiazepines (xanax, valium, klonopin, etc.) work.

Problem with bulk phenibut is once I take some I am pretty much useless. Plus it lasts for 12 hours and you usually feel grogy after it wears off.

[Ziquor]

Originally Posted by T-Bone

Problem with bulk phenibut is once I take some I am pretty much useless. Plus it lasts for 12 hours and you usually feel grogy after it wears off.

x2. I'm OK if I keep the dose low-moderate. But it's real tough to dose for most bulk powder. I got P-force Phenibut once and it came with a little scoop that was 300mg which was nice.

[Trauma1]

Originally Posted by Ziquor

Maybe some type of L-Theanine / Rhodiola rosea type product? Bulk phenibut's incredible for relaxing at lower doses but it seems to modulate the GABA receptors a bit too much and cause some dependence. Picamilon works well too. 'They' say it doesn't induce dependency or withdrawal but the 'they' who say this or the ones who sell/profit off of it. Seems to me anything that moderately or more stimulates the GABA receptors, especially the Gaba-a receptors, almost has to cause dependency & withdrawal to some extent. This is the same way benzodiazepines (xanax, valium, klonopin, etc.) work.

Good point with the phenibut Z, and you're correct. If anyone takes it in high enough dosages for a considerable amount of time, I'm sure physical dependence and subsequent withdrawl can occur to some extent.

Phenibut is primarily a GABA B receptor agonist, however it does note some minimal effects on the GABA A receptor also. Benzodiazepines(Diazepam, Clonazepam, Lorazepam, Alprazolam) are all direct agonists of GABA A receptors making them a much higher risk for physical dependence and withdrawl issues with longterm use.

Benzodiazepine Withdrawal is believed to be primarily caused by a dampening of the action of GABA through neuroadaptivity. This causes GABA to become dependent on stimulation from the benzodiazepine to initiate its primary action. So in other words, when you have become dependent upon a benzodiazepine, your GABA is unable to perform its natural action without the presence of the benzodiazepine. This causes other areas of the brain to demonstrate extreme sensitivty to excitatory neurotransmiters causing seizure activity in many.

In all honesty, it's like anything in life. Take it in moderation and all should be fine.

[Trauma1]

It's always been a goal of mine to help bring a very effective and safe sleep inducing product to the supplement market.

Maybe oneday it will surface itself through RPN.

[Ziquor]

Originally Posted by Trauma1

It's always been a goal of mine to help bring a very effective and safe sleep inducing product to the supplement market.

Maybe oneday it will surface itself through RPN.

I'm sure it will. Everything you guys have now is innovative and top notch. Now RPN just needs a high end "T1 approved" line!

[Trauma1]

Originally Posted by Ziquor

I'm sure it will. Everything you guys have now is innovative and top notch. Now RPN just needs a high end "T1 approved" line!

Lol, thanks for the support buddy.

[strategicmove]

Originally Posted by Ziquor

I'm sure it will. Everything you guys have now is innovative and top notch. Now RPN just needs a high end "T1 approved" line!

Wow! That's a vote of confidence! Well deserved!

[Trauma1]

Originally Posted by strategicmove

Wow! That's a vote of confidence! Well deserved!

Thank you sir!

You yourself are an asset to AM/AN in many ways my friend!

[Ziquor]

Originally Posted by Trauma1

Thank you sir!

You yourself are an asset to AM/AN in many ways my friend!

Hell yeah both of you guys have been an 'inspiration' to me since I've gotten much more involved in the 'supplement world'.

[Trauma1]

Originally Posted by Ziquor

Hell yeah both of you guys have been an 'inspiration' to me since I've gotten much more involved in the 'supplement world'.

Glad to be of assistance. You've come a long way z!