The DCP Question Thread

[Trauma1]

All the DCP quetions you have to be answered. The information to be used by all.

 

[flu1d]

Here's one, which concerns PLCAR.

I'm a big fan of ALCAR and I'm aware of the differences between the two. I'm planning on running DCP alongside ALCAR, I'm just wondering if there will be any problems running the two carnitines alongside each other? I'm planning on running ALCAR at around 8-10grams per day.

 

[VolcomX311]

Is dose timing optimal prior to meal? and by how long? Or with meal?

 

[Trauma1]

Is dose timing optimal prior to meal? and by how long? Or with meal?

Yes, take dosing approx 30 minutes before a meal for optimal effect.

 

[crader]

You can take the two Alcar's together but it makes them less effective.

 

[crader]

I have a question T. If I send you mine will you re-cap it for me in to a smaller cap???:lol:

 

[Trauma1]

I have a question T. If I send you mine will you re-cap it for me in to a smaller cap???:lol:

Sure, as long as you throw in an extra bottle for the T man.

 

[E J]

Could you please explain to me in layman terms how DCP works? I am asking this because I'm thinking of stacking Leviathan + DCP and wanna know if it'll be too much or how would they work to complement each other?

Any suggestions on dosage?

Thanks in advance

 

[dsade]

Could you please explain to me in layman terms how DCP works? I am asking this because I'm thinking of stacking Leviathan + DCP and wanna know if it'll be too much or how would they work to complement each other?

Any suggestions on dosage?

Thanks in advance

Layman's terms is a bit difficult, but I will try.

DCP is a multi-pronged approach to fat burning...first, to free stored fatty acids from adipocytes to be burned. This is difficult, since the body wants to hold onto those fuel stores. We trigger this release through activation of a cell receptor called a PPAR. TTA is the key ingredient here...it causes a cascade of activity which starts with the release of stored fat from fat cells.

Second, once the fatty acids are freed, we need to "escort" them into the mitochondria. This is done with the assistance of Propionyl-L-Carnitine -a sort of specialized form of Carnitine which transports the Fatty Acids into mitochondria to be burned., especially in the active cells of the body (heart, muscle, liver, etc.).

Third, we need to KEEP the fatty acids circulating in the bloodstream instead of simply being redeposited BACK into fat cells. The Salvia Miltiorrhiza extract does this specifically by blocking an enzyme called DGAT. This keeps fatty acids circulating in the bloodstream until the Carnitine transport systems can "clear" them from blood and burn them off.

Raspberry ketones are added to induce thermogenesis (and a few other functions) which then takes the energy from the burned fatty acids and throws them off as heat.

DCP is especially effective when combined with a stimulant-based thermogenic, such as Leviathan, HEAT stack, or AMP2, to take advantage of the freed fatty acids being burned at a more rapid rate via increased metabolism.


/Friday night, long week, 6 beers...hope this was semi clear.

 

[SilentBob187]

/Friday night, long week, 6 beers

What do you call that stack?

As for the DCP questions, when are the most opportune times to take DCP during the day. Upon waking, Preworkout, and...? What kind of dosing schedules do you use?

 

[dsade]

What do you call that stack?

As for the DCP questions, when are the most opportune times to take DCP during the day. Upon waking, Preworkout, and...? What kind of dosing schedules do you use?

I call my stack the "we are expecting 12-14 inches of snow this weekend AND it is our weekend with the kids....so I better have SOME fun while bowling" stack.

Right now, since we sort of "slacked" after the Arnold, I am taking 12 a day...4 morning, 4 preworkout, and 4 before dinner.

 

[E J]

Thanks D very very clear.

So what about fasting while using DCP, I I understand correctly you would be using the fat circulating in the bloodstream for energy. (if fasting is too extreme maybe lowering A LOT my caloric intake) and would not risk muscle.

Would you see any benefit in taking more salvia and/or RK with my DCP?

Thinking DCP/Levi/Napalm stack based on one of your recommendations. Would YOU personally take Levi or do you see the benefits of using another burner?

Thanks again bro

 

[EasyEJL]

Whats the longest you should run DCP for continuously, and how long of a break after?

 

[dsade]

Thanks D very very clear.

So what about fasting while using DCP, I I understand correctly you would be using the fat circulating in the bloodstream for energy. (if fasting is too extreme maybe lowering A LOT my caloric intake) and would not risk muscle.

We are just getting into exploring this approach...your feedback would be invaluable.

Would you see any benefit in taking more salvia and/or RK with my DCP?

Thinking DCP/Levi/Napalm stack based on one of your recommendations. Would YOU personally take Levi or do you see the benefits of using another burner?

Thanks again bro

Absolutely. The RK and Salvia content was limited only by capsule space and price. Additional salvia would be of benefit, as would more RKs.

I personally use DCP with Leviathan, but am also playing around with a rotation between Leviathan and HEAT stack.

The feedback on DCP/Leviathan is overwhelmingly positive.

 

[EasyEJL]

I'm currently doing a slightly modified velocity diet, so around 1200 cals a day, with still hitting 200g of protein, and counting on DCP to help me not blow out muscle

 

[crader]

Hey!!!! Are you using this thread to keep me from leveling the three bar playing field:whip:

 

[EasyEJL]

Hey!!!! Are you using this thread to keep me from leveling the three bar playing field:whip:

But if I reply and say "no" then it just makes it worse

 

[crader]

But if I reply and say "no" then it just makes it worse

Hmmmm well the best thing to do then is let me have the last word...lol:lol:

 

[dsade]

Hmmmm well the best thing to do then is let me have the last word...lol:lol:

Trust me...that IS the best thing.

 

[E J]

Additional salvia would be of benefit, as would more RKs

If dosing 8-10 DCP caps a day how much more Salvia and RK would you add?

I'm currently doing a slightly modified velocity diet, so around 1200 cals a day, with still hitting 200g of protein, and counting on DCP to help me not blow out muscle

Please let us know how this goes!


Thanks guys

 

[dsade]

If dosing 8-10 DCP caps a day how much more Salvia and RK would you add?

I would shoot for total of 1.5 grams per day.

 

[MashedPotato]

Hey RPN

DCP = :head:

However, I went from taking the recomended 6 per day (205 lbs), and increased it to 12 per day as I am bulking and increased my caloric intake by 500 from when I was consuming 6 DCP per day.

Anyway long story short, I have been getting some stomach/digestive issues (gurgling stomach, heartburn and little indigestion). Any suggestions on how to combat this?

(Im also taking MFX MAX and AP, but those have caused no problems and it appears to be dose related to DCP)

Im wondering if taking 2 before a meal and 2 during a meal 3x a day will be better than taking 4 pre-meal 3x a day?

Or any other suggestions?

Thanks guys, DCP is amazing!

 

[strategicmove]

You can take the two Alcar's together but it makes them less effective.

Why is this so?

 

[max silver]

What is recommended dosing level for females? My girlfriend is interested in trying DCP, however first we need a good starting dose for her to take.

She is 5'2", and weighs approximately 125 pounds. Is the 6 cap daily dosage going to be overkill for somebody of her size?

 

[MashedPotato]

What is recommended dosing level for females? My girlfriend is interested in trying DCP, however first we need a good starting dose for her to take.

She is 5'2", and weighs approximately 125 pounds. Is the 6 cap daily dosage going to be overkill for somebody of her size?

My wife takes 4. I thought 6 might be overkill, but then again maybe not. 4 works great for her though.

 

[crader]

What is recommended dosing level for females? My girlfriend is interested in trying DCP, however first we need a good starting dose for her to take.

She is 5'2", and weighs approximately 125 pounds. Is the 6 cap daily dosage going to be overkill for somebody of her size?

For her I would start at 2 in the am 2 in the middle and 2 before bed.

 

[dsade]

Why is this so?

I'll dig up the study for you...there is evidence of competition between the two, and the effects seen by taking either alone are slightly reduced by taking both forms together (though admittedly superior to taking neither.)

 

[fitnecise]

Effectiveness of PLCAR (statistically highly significant) in the treatment of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

Psychosom Med. 2004 Mar-Apr;66(2):276-82. Links
Exploratory open label, randomized study of acetyl- and propionylcarnitine in chronic fatigue syndrome.Vermeulen RC, Scholte HR.
Research Center Amsterdam, Amsterdam, Netherlands. info @ cfscentrumamsterdam.nl

OBJECTIVES: We compared the effects of acetylcarnitine, propionylcarnitine and both compounds on the symptoms of chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS). METHODS: In an open, randomized fashion we compared 2 g/d acetyl-L-carnitine, 2 g/d propionyl-L-carnitine, and its combination in 3 groups of 30 CFS patients during 24 weeks. Effects were rated by clinical global impression of change. Secondary endpoints were the Multidimensional Fatigue Inventory, McGill Pain Questionnaire, and the Stroop attention concentration test. Scores were assessed 8 weeks before treatment; at randomization; after 8, 16, and 24 weeks of treatment; and 2 weeks later. RESULTS: Clinical global impression of change after treatment showed considerable improvement in 59% of the patients in the acetylcarnitine group and 63% in the propionylcarnitine group, but less in the acetylcarnitine plus propionylcarnitine group (37%). Acetylcarnitine significantly improved mental fatigue (p =.015) and propionylcarnitine improved general fatigue (p =.004). Attention concentration improved in all groups, whereas pain complaints did not decrease in any group. Two weeks after treatment, worsening of fatigue was experienced by 52%, 50%, and 37% in the acetylcarnitine, propionylcarnitine, and combined group, respectively. In the acetylcarnitine group, but not in the other groups, the changes in plasma carnitine levels correlated with clinical improvement. CONCLUSIONS: Acetylcarnitine and propionylcarnitine showed beneficial effect on fatigue and attention concentration. Less improvement was found by the combined treatment. Acetylcarnitine had main effect on mental fatigue and propionylcarnitine on general fatigue.

PMID: 15039515 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Looking at the full text they authors commented that it was probably a U curve response and since we only have 900mg/day total PLCAR versus the 2g/day PLCAR + 2g ALCAR in the study I would say it is safe to take no more than 1g of ALCAR alongside DCP, keeping total carnitine at around 2 grams/day. They do work in different manners so both may be beneficial.

Also note this is in subjects with CFS so there may be no relevance to us.

 

[strategicmove]

Also note this is in subjects with CFS so there may be no relevance to us.

Agree. I still do not see how they impair each other, as they work via somewhat different pathways. As is well known, Acetyl-L-Carnitine helps maintain the metabolism of cellular energy by supporting the optimal transportation of fat through the cell membrane into cell mitochondria for oxidation (and production of cellular energy). Proprionyl-L-Carnitine, on its own rapidly penetrates into heart, endothelial and muscle cells, delivers optimal energy metabolism in the mitochondria, maintains endothelial-wall integrity, and combats muscle fatigue by enhancing muscle energy stores of glycogen.

Let's see, though, if dsade finds the study he mentioned.

 

[methodice]

combats muscle fatigue by enhancing muscle energy stores of glycogen.

can you please tell me about the mechanism here strat

 

[strategicmove]

can you please tell me about the mechanism here strat

Glycogen is the body's main source of stored energy. It can be depleted for various reasons, especially when the rate of lipolysis is not enough to satisfy the demands of stress or exercise. By facilitating the transportation of fatty acids into the mitochondria and enhancing fat metabolism and energy production there, however, propionyl-l-/(acetyl-l)-carnitine help(s) provide the body with a higher-than-normal energy level (stored glycogen and oxidized fat in the mitochondria), leading to a sparing of the metabolism of muscle glycogen, and ultimately leading to delayed fatigue.

 

[flu1d]

Agree. I still do not see how they impair each other, as they work via somewhat different pathways. As is well known, Acetyl-L-Carnitine helps maintain the metabolism of cellular energy by supporting the optimal transportation of fat through the cell membrane into cell mitochondria for oxidation (and production of cellular energy). Proprionyl-L-Carnitine, on its own rapidly penetrates into heart, endothelial and muscle cells, delivers optimal energy metabolism in the mitochondria, maintains endothelial-wall integrity, and combats muscle fatigue by enhancing muscle energy stores of glycogen.

Let's see, though, if dsade finds the study he mentioned.

As I'll be running DCP alongside ALCAR in the near future I could theorectically test which notion is true, although I'm unsure how I could do it. I've taken ALCAR previously, so should I stay on the DCP for say a week before starting ALCAR, and judge whether the ALCAR is as effective as last time I took it?

 

[fitnecise]

Agree. I still do not see how they impair each other, as they work via somewhat different pathways. As is well known, Acetyl-L-Carnitine helps maintain the metabolism of cellular energy by supporting the optimal transportation of fat through the cell membrane into cell mitochondria for oxidation (and production of cellular energy). Proprionyl-L-Carnitine, on its own rapidly penetrates into heart, endothelial and muscle cells, delivers optimal energy metabolism in the mitochondria, maintains endothelial-wall integrity, and combats muscle fatigue by enhancing muscle energy stores of glycogen.

Let's see, though, if dsade finds the study he mentioned.

I don't believe they impair one another, there is simply diminishing returns if you are attempting to treat fatigue. There would also be diminishing returns for CPT activity also, obviously.

Maybe it was a different study

Dosing different salts is definitely beneficial, yes.

 

[strategicmove]

I don't believe they impair one another, there is simply diminishing returns if you are attempting to treat fatigue. There would also be diminishing returns for CPT activity also, obviously....

We are saying the same thing. Differently!

 

[jaruma15]

Crader, I am inquring about my wife. llike max silver. She is also 5'2'' but she is 135 lb. You said that 2 in the morning 2 in the middle, and 2 before bed was a good start but how long should she stick with that and what dosage should she go to then? She just started taking DCP this morning with Napalm/Lipoderm Ultra.

 

[dsade]

I don't believe they impair one another, there is simply diminishing returns if you are attempting to treat fatigue. There would also be diminishing returns for CPT activity also, obviously.

Maybe it was a different study

Dosing different salts is definitely beneficial, yes.

No, this was my point. Impair was a poor choice of word on my part.

 

[crader]

Crader, I am inquring about my wife. llike max silver. She is also 5'2'' but she is 135 lb. You said that 2 in the morning 2 in the middle, and 2 before bed was a good start but how long should she stick with that and what dosage should she go to then? She just started taking DCP this morning with Napalm/Lipoderm Ultra.

Well it depends on how she is doing on it. I myself take 2 in the am 4 before workout and 2 before bed. If she is side free and losing well at the 2-2-2 dose then keep her there until she hits a plateau.

If she is hitting the gym then you could bump her to what I'm on to help with endurance. You can adjust the dose if she plateaus as long as she can tolerate it. Just keep her water intake high.

 

[jaruma15]

Thanks crader, I appreciate info

 

[bryan4592]

What would you recommend for dosage timing for a DCP/Leviathan/AP/PSlin stack? I plan on only using PSlin preworkout and the AP with higher carb meals. So basically, how should I time these 3-4 supps? Also, how would DCP work with a Havoc stack somewhere down the road?

 

[crader]

Dose the DCP at 2 in the am 2 before workout and 2 before bed. The Levi frst thing in the am before food. A second dose of Levi in the afternoon on an empty stomache. The AP /Pslin as directed or with carbs.

And Havoc and DCP together is fine!!

 

[bryan4592]

Thanks a bunch Crader!!

 

[bj22]

Is there much of a benefit to upping the dose to 8 caps a day over the recommended dosage of 6? I am hoping to cut about 8-10 lbs. in 7 weeks. Thanks.

 

[dsade]

Is there much of a benefit to upping the dose to 8 caps a day over the recommended dosage of 6? I am hoping to cut about 8-10 lbs. in 7 weeks. Thanks.

It will be more effective. My sweet spot is actually around 8-9 (2 morning, 4 preworkout, 2 evening - or switched if I have a night workout - then sometimes another single cap before bed.)

 

[bj22]

I think I might bump the dosage up since I have a couple bottles laying around and a limited time to get to where I want to be. Also, I know this is usually taken before meals. So would it be ok to take it at the same time as lets say a repartitioner such as AP and/or a stim like EC? It seems like a lot to take in at once.

 

[DreamOfWeight]

Whats the longest you should run DCP for continuously, and how long of a break after?

]

did u ever get the answer to this question?

 

[EasyEJL]

not unless I missed it

 

[DreamOfWeight]

not unless I missed it

haha.. ya because im on my second bottle, and have two more stashed away.. its good stuff. just wanted to know if u found out..

 

[Trauma1]

not unless I missed it

We recommend taking it for up to 6-8 weeks followed by equal time off. Sorry about that easy, must have missed that.

 

[max silver]

How severe does the water retention aspect of DCP tend to be? Is there a certain point where fatloss will overcome the water retention to produce visible results, particularly in terms of scale weight?

My girlfriend started taking DCP a few weeks ago, (2 caps 3 times daily 30 minutes prior to meals, although the odd dose has been missed) and has been exercising on a regular basis. She began taking USP Labs Recreate as well last week for added fatloss results. She performs light resistance exercise workouts 4 times per week followed by 20-25 minutes of treadmill cardio, and performs two 30 minute standalone treadmill cardio sessions as well. I believe this should be sufficient exercise for her to lose fat, as she was mostly sedentary prior to starting this current regime.

As of today, she has seen no change on the scale, and this of course has her concerned, as she's been reasonably careful with food selection and how much she eats (3 moderate meals per day plus a few healthy snacks as needed). There are still improvements that could be made with some of her food choices, but I was planning on leaving that tweak until she had plateaued. Is a two week period too soon to really begin to see some results with her, or should we be looking at tweaking her diet right away?

On a side not, one possibility that I see for the lack of results thus far is the birth control patch that she employs. I've seen numerous complaints online of difficulties in losing weight while using birth control, which makes sense in my eyes due to the bombardment of estrogen the user is faced with. What is your take on losing fat while using birth control pills or patches? I don't like her using this method of birth control because of the potential health risks and side effects of increased estrogen levels, but unfortunately that's not my decision to make.

 

[crader]

Well you can always see if she is interested in the Paragard IUD, it lasts for 10 years and has no hormonal sides. Two weeks is still early to see results. I'm on six meals a day with 20 grams of protein a meal.