HAVOC Logs/Experiences

[Trauma1]

I want to have this thread dedicated to those who have logged/used havoc. This way we can compare and contrast cycles and ideas we have used for all to benefit in the end. If you have ever logged/used havoc post your link here as well as any general experiences you had using it. I'll do my best at finding some logs and posting the links in this thread.

 

[Trauma1]

Havoc gave me gyno

I had gyno in my right nip - a tender lump. Havoc reduced the tenderness but during post cycle therapy (Raloxifene) i got gyno in my LEFT nip. It's a rather large lump and very sore. Is there any thing I can do or is it too late?

So you already had a gyno lump before you started your havoc cycle? It's hard to pinpoint where the problem lies without all the necessary information. What did your havoc cycle and you post cycle therapy look like? What were your underlying issues with gyno prior to this cycle?

 

[Trauma1]

A year prior I did a cycle of Phera-Plex which gave me delayed gyno in my right nip. I decided to take Havoc, hoping it would help reduce the lump/soreness. The Havoc did get rid of 97% of the tenderness and it might have shrunk the lump a tiny bit. However, what i didn't expect was that i would get gyno in my left nip - which showed no signs of gyno prior to this. I did 5 weeks of Havoc. The last week of the cycle I took 20mg of Nolva and some topical formestane. I then got this weird soreness on the VERY TIPS of my nips so I stoppd the formestane - not knowing what was causing it. For post cycle therapy I took 60mg Ralox every day for 4 weeks.
(The staple, ancillary supps were taken through the cycle as well)

What dosage were you running the havoc at? Did you start taking the nolva in the last week because of developing gyno in the left nipple prior to the end of your cycle? What dose were you running the formestane at? You're still leaving a lot of information and factors out. Ralox should be run higher imho in the first 2 weeks and tapered down. What other supplements were you using in your post cycle therapy?

Honestly i'm beginning to believe that your post cycle therapy is probably to blame here for your issue, because i have yet to hear of a gyno or delayed gyno incident from anyone using Havoc and a proper post cycle therapy.

 

[GotTest]

Honestly i'm beginning to believe that your post cycle therapy is probably to blame here for your issue, because i yet to hear of a gyno or delayed gyno incident from anyone using Havoc and a proper post cycle therapy.

That was my thought too Trauma.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/82576-dosing-ralox-mild.html

 

[Trauma1]

I searched and asked many questions, most said ralox would be enough. That, and studies such as this one made me think it would be OK so I went with it.

FYI, I remember reading a post of someone who had the exact same experience - gyno improved in one nipple but appeared in the other.

Apparently I, and many others, was wrong. What would you have suggested for PCT?

What's done is done. Back to my original question, is there anything that could reverse what has been done?

Pit, I completely understand your frustration with your gyno issue, however i think you're missing the big picture here. You still haven't answered half the question i've asked regarding your cycle and your pct. There is NO way to accurately figure out the problem here without all the facts being presented.

The first sentence of your initial post was as follows:

Havoc gave me gyno

I just don't know how you can justify that statement without stating all the facts of your cycle/pct to begin with. I'm not here to flame you at all, but you have to understand your opening statement was accusatory and vague given the lack of information.

In response to your question if anything can be done the answer is yes. Sinner did a good job explaining pct in the following link and i encourage you to check it out:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/66113-no-excuses-no.html

If you do a search on AM you will find many great logs/advice on gyno reduction. I would also post a thread up in the pct section regarding your gyno problem as it will receive many great suggestions resulting from tried and true gyno reduction methods(Serm's, AI's).

Again, i'm not here to rip on you and i wish you the best in dealing with this gyno issue because i know what a pain it is. Having a solid pct(Serm,AI,test booster,cortisol control)is essential in preventing gyno. If you have any other questions regarding havoc i can certainly help you out so please let me know.:cheers:

 

[maynehood171]

A year prior I did a cycle of Phera-Plex which gave me delayed gyno in my right nip. I decided to take Havoc, hoping it would help reduce the lump/soreness. The Havoc did get rid of 97% of the tenderness and it might have shrunk the lump a tiny bit. However, what i didn't expect was that i would get gyno in my left nip - which showed no signs of gyno prior to this. I did 5 weeks of Havoc. The last week of the cycle I took 20mg of Nolva and some topical formestane. I then got this weird soreness on the VERY TIPS of my nips so I stoppd the formestane - not knowing what was causing it. For post cycle therapy I took 60mg Ralox every day for 4 weeks.
(The staple, ancillary supps were taken through the cycle as well)

Asking: Shouldn't one cycle down a SERM to avoid rebound?

 

[Trauma1]

Havoc: 20mg - 1.5 weeks, 30mg - 2 weeks, 40mg - .5 week, 20mg - 1 week (roughly)

week 5: developed a weird soreness on the VERY TIPS of my nipples so I dropped the Havoc dose to 20mg and started nolva @ 20mg, and topical formestane (there's synergy between the two)

week 6-9: 60mg Ralox ed

Ancillary supps: AI Cycle Support, NAC, Idebenone, tons of Vit-C, Vit-E, B-complex, fish oil, cissus, NA-RALA, 1-carboxy...

Well i'll tell you what i would have done differently. I would have had the nolva at 40mg/day or the ralox at 120mg/day when these syptoms first started. The formestane(AI) was a good idea and i would have done the same myself.

Just as an outside observation, i would say that it appears you weren't aggressive enough in treating your gyno symptoms when they initially presented itself imho. I think your post cycle therapy could have been designed more solidly and is more than likely to blame for this eventual outcome. I'm not here to place blame by any means, however i think you should have acted more aggressively(doses of ralox and formestane) especially since you had already had prior gyno issues present.

I encourage you to further research the board as there are many ways to help reduce the symptoms of your gyno issue. I will say that lower dose havoc 10-20mg/day has shown in many reviews to be very effective in decreasing prior gyno symptoms in those that have used it.


I hope everything works out for you pitbull and you knock that gyno out. If have anymore questions i'll help you out with what i can.

 

[The_Reverend]

I've read that running anything over 30mg of Havoc can cause a flare-up in gyno. Perhaps you aggravated your condition by running 40mg. For me personally, the sweet spot is 30mg. Anything more aggravates and anything less is worthless.

 

[maynehood171]

I've read that running anything over 30mg of Havoc can cause a flare-up in gyno. Perhaps you aggravated your condition by running 40mg. For me personally, the sweet spot is 30mg. Anything more aggravates and anything less is worthless.

I've read plenty of threads where people do 40mg in the last week or 2 before pct or even 40mg all the way through cycle and didn't develop gyno and did have a solid pct...

40mg is where the sides become apparent usually...yes?

 

[maynehood171]

True...

 

[3clipseGT]

Im super sensitive to gyno problems and have ran epi compounds ( mostly havoc ) all the way up to 90mgs and have had NO gyno problems. Im in PCT right now and still zero gyno problems. The only problem i see is coming off :rant:.

Great gains, lean gains, nutrient partitioner, libido goes up, fatloss goes up, strength goes up and very easily kept as well!

 

[maynehood171]

Im super sensitive to gyno problems and have ran epi compounds ( mostly havoc ) all the way up to 90mgs and have had NO gyno problems. Im in post cycle therapy right now and still zero gyno problems. The only problem i see is coming off :rant:.

Great gains, lean gains, nutrient partitioner, libido goes up, fatloss goes up, strength goes up and very easily kept as well!

90mg! holy ****!

What's your pct look like?

 

[3clipseGT]

It was part of a test for myself, there was a couple of us taking it that high 70-90mgs.

I didnt stay there at that dose more then 2 weeks but i felt great to be honest. 40-60mgs is best IMO.

PCT looked like

ATD
Rebound Reloaded
Dermacrine Sustain

Now im on:

Hyperdrolx2
Retainx2
MassfX
Xfactor

After 2 weeks my libido was back NP. I find for me its very easy to come off the epi compound and i havnt lost any muscle nor strength.

 

[The_Reverend]

Everyone responds differently.

No doubt. But it's something to keep in mind since more than a few people have noted that.

 

[Trauma1]

Im super sensitive to gyno problems and have ran epi compounds ( mostly havoc ) all the way up to 90mgs and have had NO gyno problems. Im in post cycle therapy right now and still zero gyno problems. The only problem i see is coming off :rant:.

Great gains, lean gains, nutrient partitioner, libido goes up, fatloss goes up, strength goes up and very easily kept as well!

Wow 90mgs/day......I've found that most find the sweet spot at around 40mg/day. Thanks for posting your thoughts/results buddy. How's the recovery going in your pct?

 

[Congealed]

Havoc

OK, I tried Havoc. One bottle. Very noticeable gains. Mostly density, but some size. Lots more strength and endurance. Really awesome.

Unfortunately I didn't have a SERM, nor did I or do I know where to obtain one. (and I'm not going to the doctor to tell him about needing one for AS).

Had some nut atrophy kinda bad, beginnings of gyno; hard nips, very sensitive, almost think it was starting to thin my hair. But hey, I might just be psychosomatic.

Sure would be cool to know where to get a SERM. Maybe an overseas supplier. I would take Havoc again, but I would want to get a real SERM on hand first.

I took ALRI's Restore, and it seemed to work well. I took a bunch of it, maybe 5-6 a day at first, now 3-5.

Maybe if I tell the doctor I need Tamoxifen for the prevention of breast cancer.

 

[3clipseGT]

Wow 90mgs/day......I've found that most find the sweet spot at around 40mg/day. Thanks for posting your thoughts/results buddy. How's the recovery going in your post cycle therapy?

40 mgs was my sweet spot for the most part with Havoc as well. I just like to push the envelope at times. It always seems for me though that i need higher dosages of anything to get it to work for me. Just how its always been. 50mgs of Ephedra for example is my just right amount. Recovery is great, no problems with that at all! Still keeping my gains and dont feel like crap. Came back quicker then i expected as well.

 

[maynehood171]

OK, I tried Havoc. One bottle. Very noticeable gains. Mostly density, but some size. Lots more strength and endurance. Really awesome.

Unfortunately I didn't have a SERM, nor did I or do I know where to obtain one. (and I'm not going to the doctor to tell him about needing one for AS).

Had some nut atrophy kinda bad, beginnings of gyno; hard nips, very sensitive, almost think it was starting to thin my hair. But hey, I might just be psychosomatic.

Sure would be cool to know where to get a SERM. Maybe an overseas supplier. I would take Havoc again, but I would want to get a real SERM on hand first.

I took ALRI's Restore, and it seemed to work well. I took a bunch of it, maybe 5-6 a day at first, now 3-5.

Maybe if I tell the doctor I need Tamoxifen for the prevention of breast cancer.

Check your PM

 

[thehurricane]

......

 

[SoCo4Fun]

...

Really? People amaze me...

 

[CopyCat]

......

Must be the new bump?

 

[Chub]

Must be the new bump?

guess so lol. i'll stick my review up at the end of my pct

 

[Orangepeel]

I ran Havoc about 10 months ago

W1- 10-20
W2- 20
W3- 30
W4- 40

In that time I gained 20Lb's AND leaned out - I continued making gains into PCT, and lost maybe 2-3Lb's untill almost 4-5 weeks later when I began a little cutting.

I plan to run it again in about 1.5 months

W - 10-20
W - 20-30
W - 30
W - 30-40
W - 40

 

[buff808]

i ran havoc for 23 days. dislocated my shoulder so had to cut it short. still kinda wondering if the havoc made my tendents weaker and thats why my shoulder poped out so easy. gained 12 pounds while on.... lost every damn pound in less than 5 weeks. probably because i couldnt work out..... but ive never been soo ripped in my life while i was on this stuff. 1 more month till i cycle it again!!! no fighting this time! kinda hard when theres soo much damn punks in my hood!

 

[Carcaya]

i ran havoc for 23 days. dislocated my shoulder so had to cut it short. still kinda wondering if the havoc made my tendents weaker and thats why my shoulder poped out so easy. gained 12 pounds while on.... lost every damn pound in less than 5 weeks. probably because i couldnt work out..... but ive never been soo ripped in my life while i was on this stuff. 1 more month till i cycle it again!!! no fighting this time! kinda hard when theres soo much damn punks in my hood!

I found that taking the joint support on cycle really helped with keeping my tendons and joints in line. Putting on muscle quickly really stresses the joints.

I ran Havoc ramping up to 40mg and staying there week 2-4. I had hardly any sides. Most difficult part was the lethargy for me. Havoc = A+

Here is my log for anyone who wants to check it out: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/115214-welcome-havoc-city.html

 

[Chub]

So I ran my Havoc cycle 20/30/30/40. Sorry if the review is kinda all over the place. There isn’t much structure to it!

Mood/Motivation: Mood in the evenings would be quite low. Motivation in the mornings was quite crap. Had a lot of problems with my gf the whole time I was running the cycle. So that didn’t help much, I think if everything was alright at the time the cycle would of went a lot better.

My mood was up and down like a yo-yo. One minute I’d be in a crap mood and the next I’d be really cheery and motivated.

Back pumps – I only got one back pump, which was on day 4 or 5. It was really quite bad. I upped my intake of water and Taurine (about 3g before and after workout) to counter the back pumps. Never got anymore back pumps after that. I was drinking a ton of water, 16 pints some days (2 gallon)

Joints – they were fine but I was running Osteo-sport.

Stress/Appetite – Stressed a lot of the time due to the problems with the gf. Appetite did suffer quite a bit due to the low mood and stress. Most of the time I was getting the cals down but some days it was quite hard and I’d end up missing meals out.

Pump and Vascularity – Pumps were great, I’d swell up for the rest of the day. Pumps would come on really easy too. Loved it.

Recovery/Endurance – recovery was really good, didn’t really get DOMs at all. I found myself having less of a break between sets. At the end of my workouts I felt like I could keep going.

Weight – my starting weight was 185-187lbs, up and down quite a bit pre cycle ( that was weighing myself on waking) By the middle of week one going onto week two my weight was down 2lbs. My waist looked a lot smaller too. Lost some fat for sure. Weight started to climb back up by the end of week 3. By the end of my cycle I was 193.

End of PCT my weight was 190lbs. I could of kept the 3lbs I lost but I just didn’t eat enough during PCT to maintain. I’m maintaining the weight a lot better now.

Nuts – I didn’t think my nuts got much smaller. They didn’t get sore either, however when I was in PCT they did seem to look bigger and fuller than usual..

Libido – First couple weeks it was normal. Normal to me is pretty damn high though. Had no problems what so ever with my Libido. I didn’t take any supps to help keep my libido high. Insanely high during PCT too.

Lethargy/Energy – In the evenings I’d be really tired almost zombie like. Energy is the gym was great, loved the workouts while I ran Havoc. Dosing Havoc with RPM pre workout was just insane!

PCT:

I was going to run an OTC PCT

Igf-2
Post Cycle Support
Lean Xtreme
6-oxo

However around the 3rd week I decided to change it up and I used Tamoxifen citrate (Nolvadex) 20/20/10/10 with IGF-2, Lean Xtreme both from day one and Post Cycle Support from week 3.

Nipples were slightly puffer throughout the cycle but that’s normally expected while running a cycle. Recovery was fine, no sides from Nolvadex.

I wanted to be on the safe side so I went with the SERM. But there are plenty people out there who have done OTC PCT and have been fine. If I was to run any other PH’s I would go with a SERM again.

Overall I think Havoc is a great compound. I think it’s a really good product to run if you’re just starting off on the DS/PH route. However I don’t think I’ll be running any DS/PH in the near future or the next 5 years. I’ve so much natural potential left in me and if you’re thinking of doing something hormonal just think, do you really NEED to do a cycle yet? Also I see a lot of people refer to Havoc as being mild. I wouldn’t say its mild at all and should not be underestimated or abused.

I read through my log again before I wrote this review up and it just makes me want to run another cycle lol. Thinking back it was just a great feeling to be on. The workouts were insane but I don’t want to get into the habit of doing cycles every year. I’ll save that for when I’m a lot older and have tapped right into my natural potential.

Also the new label for Havoc is pretty awesome Hope you enjoyed my review and it didn’t feel like I dragged on! And for those who followed with my log, thanks for all the support and advice

 

[masterX]

Havoc gave me gyno

I had gyno in my right nip - a tender lump. Havoc reduced the tenderness but during PCT (Raloxifene) i got gyno in my LEFT nip. It's a rather large lump and very sore. Is there any thing I can do or is it too late?

x2 same here, this ph is weird