Best results vs severity of sides with Tren E

[Bull_Nuts]

Basically...I'm 37...been cycling 10+ years, lifting 27 yrs. 14-16% BF. 5'8" 225lbs.

Just starting this cycle.
Test E 900mg/wk
Tren E 500mg/wk
Npp 200mg/wk (joint comfort)
Mast E 300/wk
Cardarine 20mg/day
Dbol 50mg/day weeks 1-4

Mast is a bonus plus helps estro sides
A custom prolactin suppressor that includes B6, Vit E, l dopa and more proprietary stuff for prolactin.

I guess my main question is what everyone's opinion is on Tren as to where the tipping point between good gains and ****ty sides begin to merge?

I only do Tren like 1x every 2 years...2x at most because I hate the insomnia, and night sweats.

I brew my own gear and potency is spot on....my source is very good. The doses above are about the highest I go.

Opinions on the tren and any cycle adjustments are welcome.

Thx

 

[celticthug]

Well I've had the sides. Night sweats, slightly elevated temp, out of breath. Last run at 100 Ed if tren ace gave me the hives. Lol!

I've put up with getting bad,or sub par gear. I make my own tren ace myself too. This is what I've learned.

My gear kicks ass. I don't need crazy doses. In fact I'm at 300 sus a week. And 75 tren ace every 3rd day. As soon as I intoduce the tren. I start adding muscle.Im 6"1 at 255. Don't know my BF. But I bench 500,and squat 605. I've pulled over 700 when younger. I'm 45. It puts muscle on me NOW!

I've run the low dose style for 3 months. I've had a little prolactin issues. Nothing serious. Slight reduction in hard on quality. A first. Even when high dosing UG gear. Unfortunately I keep only a small fraction of my gains. But it does really work well if I'm trying to lose fat. I keep my muscle in a fairly serious calorie deficit.

So..if it's my gear. I'm coming in at 50 Ed of tren ace Ed. In a week or two I'll start getting the night sweats. Not the really bad ones. Like the bed is crazy wet. Tolerable. But the gains ain't any better, not really.

So yeah! I'm sure your thinking I'm a nut! Lol! But I'm not. I realize my dosage protocol may not help you much. But if you got good tren? In my experience you don't need anywhere the mg's to get results. Hopefully you get something out of my post! Lol!

PS...At any dose that is effective seems I'm always out of breath! Lol!

 

[Chados]

400 tren I think is the absolute max a person should go. I also don't think it's smart to add npp with tren especially at that dose of tren. If I was to stack these two id keep them both at maybe 200 but I just don't see the point

 

[Bull_Nuts]

400 tren I think is the absolute max a person should go. I also don't think it's smart to add npp with tren especially at that dose of tren. If I was to stack these two id keep them both at maybe 200 but I just don't see the point

Ok...

What information do you have stating 400 is the most someone should use of tren?

400mg/wk is a normal starting dose...

And low dose npp or nd is commonly used for joint comfort with tren...see the point? Now I definitely would not run more than 200 npp or nd as they are both 17 nor and compete for receptor sites.

Imo 200/200 is pointless...either run tren at a starting dose or more or dont run it at all...im a big boy and as such Ill run whats comfortable and what works for me.

Now...do you have something to support your claims or maybe some tren side effect related experiences to share? Id be glad to hear

 

[Chados]

Tren is strong enough to do a lot at 200-300 same with deca, the higher you go the more sides you'll get. Your stack is a little out of control in my opinion but I guess that some people just don't care about their health. You're stacking two 19 nor and I'm not gonna tell you it's a bit over the top just for some joint support since I believe you have some knowledge considering your history. I'm not saying 500 tren is an insane amount but 400 is more than enough for a first cycle.

Look some people never get sides but its like saying 500 test is a first cycle. There is no limit cause were all different. Most people I've heard doing tren get sides if they go over 400 and with test above 250 and especially above 500, with test I mean gyno.

You can stack anything but you're on 500 tren. If you would have said 250/250 on deca and tren I wouldn't have said anything.

I just don't think it's very safe but it's your choice.

 

[Bull_Nuts]

"Tren is strong enough to do a lot at 200-300 same with deca, the higher you go the more sides you'll get. Your stack is a little out of control in my opinion but I guess that some people just don't care about their health."

***Yes I understand higher doses equate to higher sides...thank you for telling me I already know***

"You're stacking two 19 nor and I'm not gonna tell you it's a bit over the top just for some joint support since I believe you have some knowledge considering your history."

***Not over the top in the slightest...common place...you are the first person Ive heard saying this is out of control, it must be this board??? Can ANYONE else chime in here???***

"I'm not saying 500 tren is an insane amount but 400 is more than enough for a first cycle."

***Not my first time using tren...I have used either Tren E, A, or Hex over a dozen times***

"Look some people never get sides but its like saying 500 test is a first cycle. There is no limit cause were all different. Most people I've heard doing tren get sides if they go over 400 and with test above 250 and especially above 500, with test I mean gyno."

***You should read up on Masteron...my estro sides and by saying estro sides i mean gyno...will be non-existent***

***With regards to tren sides, believe it or not, they wont be bad at all...as Test/tren cycles are typically bad because the sides from the test potentiate the sides from the tren and vice versa...With Masteron on board...MINIMUM TEST SIDES...with B6, Vit E and L Dopa....Prolactin levels are suppressed by 67%***

"You can stack anything but you're on 500 tren. If you would have said 250/250 on deca and tren I wouldn't have said anything."

"I just don't think it's very safe but it's your choice."

I copied your quote and inserted my responses if that hasn't clicked.

And Additionally...cardarine negates the lethargy.

BN

 

[Chados]

"Tren is strong enough to do a lot at 200-300 same with deca, the higher you go the more sides you'll get. Your stack is a little out of control in my opinion but I guess that some people just don't care about their health."

***Yes I understand higher doses equate to higher sides...thank you for telling me I already know***

"You're stacking two 19 nor and I'm not gonna tell you it's a bit over the top just for some joint support since I believe you have some knowledge considering your history."

***Not over the top in the slightest...common place...you are the first person Ive heard saying this is out of control, it must be this board??? Can ANYONE else chime in here???***

"I'm not saying 500 tren is an insane amount but 400 is more than enough for a first cycle."

***Not my first time using tren...I have used either Tren E, A, or Hex over a dozen times***

"Look some people never get sides but its like saying 500 test is a first cycle. There is no limit cause were all different. Most people I've heard doing tren get sides if they go over 400 and with test above 250 and especially above 500, with test I mean gyno."

***You should read up on Masteron...my estro sides and by saying estro sides i mean gyno...will be non-existent***

***With regards to tren sides, believe it or not, they wont be bad at all...as Test/tren cycles are typically bad because the sides from the test potentiate the sides from the tren and vice versa...With Masteron on board...MINIMUM TEST SIDES...with B6, Vit E and L Dopa....Prolactin levels are suppressed by 67%***

"You can stack anything but you're on 500 tren. If you would have said 250/250 on deca and tren I wouldn't have said anything."

"I just don't think it's very safe but it's your choice."

I copied your quote and inserted my responses if that hasn't clicked.

And Additionally...cardarine negates the lethargy.

BN

You're asking a question and yet you seem to know the answers so why do you ask? Just because you don't die it doesn't mean it won't harm you. You do what you want but I don't get why..

 

[AdelV]

Here I am worried about taking natural test boosters, and people are stacking multiple steroids ?

 

[Bull_Nuts]

No I was pretty clear with my question...here it is again

"I guess my main question is what everyone's opinion is on Tren as to where the tipping point between good gains and ****ty sides begin to merge?"

You just started attacking my doses and history with opinions that dont really reflect the norm...not that those doses wont work for you...hell if they do then that is great...you are well below a tren e starter dose. Most every starter dose ive encountered is 400mg/wk from forum to forum, site to site.

 

[Bull_Nuts]

Im actually curious how many people "die" from tren 500/wk?

Im recreational...500 is probably the most Ill ever go...500 is low by comparison...in fact...id bet my left nut that 75% tren users use 500 minimum up to a gram or more.

 

[Chados]

I don't know where I attacked you. I said i guess you probably have experience so you are informed enough to know the risk. People don't need 400 tren the first time. It's like saying people need 500 mg test. Tren is way more powerful than test so I don't see the logic. I answered your question by saying that from what I've read people do get sides at 400. I personally don't mind the sides but I've never had any and I wouldn't be scared but it doesn't mean I don't think you should be careful.

 

[Bull_Nuts]

I don't know where I attacked you. I said i guess you probably have experience so you are informed enough to know the risk. People don't need 400 tren the first time. It's like saying people need 500 mg test. Tren is way more powerful than test so I don't see the logic. I answered your question by saying that from what I've read people do get sides at 400. I personally don't mind the sides but I've never had any and I wouldn't be scared but it doesn't mean I don't think you should be careful.

When I say attacked im not really meaning it in a personal way...so please dont take offense or think I have and I also did not consider your experience level.

Second...why do you keep saying people dont need 400 the first time? I never said anything about 400 except that it is what many sources recommend as a first dose.

I think 400 is a general area where you can safely begin and still get great results and I believe this logic may be based on the fact that it is an advanced compound...once you are that experienced...you are probably at a gram or more of test. With that experience behind you and test use up to that point 400mg seems actually very suitable. Ive heard many advanced persons advocate test dose to be 2x that of tren at least...and tren is 3x as anabolic.

Will you get results with less than 400?...Definitely!

What is your aas use experience and your lifting history? What compounds have you used? What doses have you worked up to?

Ive been doing this a while...about 12-13 years...and ive experimented with up to 1.4g of test with many cycles containing an anabolic, 1 or 2 19 nor(s), a dht and multiple orals. This is conservative for me. Im definitely not bragging because for my genetic composition doses lower, like what im currently running work better for me...

On top of that

I homebrew and use custom Preworkout injectables with, for example, Test base 50mg, tren base 25mg, nandro base 25mg, and dbol 25mg......try a 1/2 ml of this 45 minutes before your workout and see how you feel. The pwo injectables can be tweaked easily depending on goals...ie var instead of dbol or anadrol or tbol. You can also add or drop the tren or nandro and add eq base...

So apologies for being so obtuse. I was not considerate of your perspective when I should have been.

BN

 

[Chados]

It's all good. I don't have the same experience when it comes to these massive stacks and I haven't been on cycles every year either but for 15 years I've been trying different compounds from phs to aas (they're probably all the same now). I just don't see the need to go higher on tren because it's the harshest compound out there. You up test to 1000 from 500 and there might be bloat or gyno but that's mostly it as far as sides goes. Tren is different and it can change you a lot. you asked what I believe Is safe not to get sides( to feel good) while making gains. Well my thought goes like this, many people do go for 400 and many people also claim they get sides. Why not go for 300 then? especially if you have such a huge stack as you do. I cannot imagine you not getting gains from this. I'm on your side here in a way, I'm sure I would go 400 or 500 but then again I wouldn't advice anyone else to do it, am I contradicting myself? Not really I just don't wanna be the guy who gives advice that can hurt someone. Is it likely? Maybe not but tren is the worst of the worst and if we respect test we should definitely respect tren. While mentioning eq, I rather see this with tren than npp , and isn't masteron something you wanna put higher than 300?

So many options . I would go like this

Tren 300-400
Test 500-750 (or the same as tren)
Masteron 400

Maybe throw in eq or primo and skip the dbol cause I just don't like the bloat it gives.

 

[chemjr]

B, you are nuts, lol. But I agree with post above mine about test and tren being the same. Also, I'd why but dhb is giving me Lots of joint relief atm. But so does npp. And if you need help with anything image call away brother. (Hope all healthy stuff improves)
Lmk how this processes and how you tweak it as time goes on/you usually do. Be safe brother

 

[chemjr]

Maybe throw in eq or primo and skip the dbol cause I just don't like the bloat it gives.

Yes, PRIMO!
And if you shoot me you're address I'll send you the prolactin help. I would truly value you're input.

 

[Chados]

Yes, PRIMO!
And if you shoot me you're address I'll send you the prolactin help. I would truly value you're input.

What exactly do you mean here? I'm not on tren in fact almost natural now after the cycle of that counts haha.

 

[chemjr]

What exactly do you mean here? I'm not on tren in fact almost natural now after the cycle of that counts haha.

Must have been an earlier post. And as for my earlier posts people must think English is a second language for me bc of my damn auto correct.
Anyways, was saying primo bc you had said why not eq etc instead of dbol bc you don't like the bloat. While it may be costly primo gives that happy feeling and clean gains. Just wish it weren't so darn expensive. Basically was making a comparison (if one could be made) btwn eq and primo. I think some will call me crazy and so,e will know what I mean by that.

 

[chemjr]

What exactly do you mean here? I'm not on tren in fact almost natural now after the cycle of that counts haha.

Also it was directed more to bull nuts as a tweak to his cycle as he said he'd take suggested tweaks as well. That my main thing. If he's gonna run a kings cycle then run the king of dht's.

 

[Chados]

Must have been an earlier post. And as for my earlier posts people must think English is a second language for me bc of my damn auto correct.
Anyways, was saying primo bc you had said why not eq etc instead of dbol bc you don't like the bloat. While it may be costly primo gives that happy feeling and clean gains. Just wish it weren't so darn expensive. Basically was making a comparison (if one could be made) btwn eq and primo. I think some will call me crazy and so,e will know what I mean by that.

Ah yeah I can agree with primo but I just feel its a bit weak. For sure it's on the safer side though and if people can stick to that good for them. Eq is not that harsh either but from my understanding a bit more.

 

[chemjr]

Ah yeah I can agree with primo but I just feel its a bit weak. For sure it's on the safer side though and if people can stick to that good for them. Eq is not that harsh either but from my understanding a bit more.

Primo is Far from weak. Better than mast! And eq is weaker than primo in general. But eq is a modified test molecule w no estro or prolactin sides, whereas mast and primo are dht's so they will have andro sides like increased mpb if you're predisposed and so on, however they function as an AI to the point where most who use either don't need an AI on cycle.
Hell, that's how Zane and Lou and Arnold did it, proviron and masteron. AI's didn't exist! And they're staples were test, nandro, mast, dbol, var, proviron. That's about it really. Some eq, but was 50mg/ml so it was run lightly bc was so low dosed and hard to come by/expensive. K, rant over.

Feel like maybe you've read a lot about gear but not used so much of it? Not a bad thing just guessing.
You had said "used a lot of ph's and some gear (seems like a lot are the same though)" or something close and I was thinking man, this guy thinks oils act like orals or something, which is not at all true. That's why cycles are 8-16weeks, bc some oils take some people 4-6wks just to start getting good effects. Anyways, hope you learn a lot and do things safely. Stay conservative. I use MINIMAL amts of things and works fine for me. Hyper sensitive but also a Hyper excreter so I have to use a lil bit often.

So there's what I meant, a little history lesson and some other trains of thought to play around with. You are welcome to pm me anytime. And I hope you take any disrespect to any of it bc that's how I meant any of it. Enjoy your sat night!

 

[chemjr]

Ah yeah I can agree with primo but I just feel its a bit weak. For sure it's on the safer side though and if people can stick to that good for them. Eq is not that harsh either but from my understanding a bit more.

More basically and to the point-
Eq is not harsh at all and neither is primo, but they are two Very different compounds from different families.
Eq- lean gains usually paired with one or two other compounds. Helps with connective tissues.
Primo- has the dbol happy feeling but is a dht based compound and also lean gains. Can often be run together on a precontest stack w some test and var.
Hope that's clear and more straight forward.

 

[Chados]

Primo is Far from weak. Better than mast! And eq is weaker than primo in general. But eq is a modified test molecule w no estro or prolactin sides, whereas mast and primo are dht's so they will have andro sides like increased mpb if you're predisposed and so on, however they function as an AI to the point where most who use either don't need an AI on cycle.
Hell, that's how Zane and Lou and Arnold did it, proviron and masteron. AI's didn't exist! And they're staples were test, nandro, mast, dbol, var, proviron. That's about it really. Some eq, but was 50mg/ml so it was run lightly bc was so low dosed and hard to come by/expensive. K, rant over.

Feel like maybe you've read a lot about gear but not used so much of it? Not a bad thing just guessing.
You had said "used a lot of ph's and some gear (seems like a lot are the same though)" or something close and I was thinking man, this guy thinks oils act like orals or something, which is not at all true. That's why cycles are 8-16weeks, bc some oils take some people 4-6wks just to start getting good effects. Anyways, hope you learn a lot and do things safely. Stay conservative. I use MINIMAL amts of things and works fine for me. Hyper sensitive but also a Hyper excreter so I have to use a lil bit often.

So there's what I meant, a little history lesson and some other trains of thought to play around with. You are welcome to pm me anytime. And I hope you take any disrespect to any of it bc that's how I meant any of it. Enjoy your sat night!

Oh.. I don't know what my brain was doing here, I was thinking proviron not primo.. primo is great, probably the best one when it comes to safety and results.

 

[celticthug]

Gotta put this out there guys! Primo is probably the most faked steroid there is. Followed closly by anavar. Now I've spent some money on it,and got took twice,first two times. This is s educated guess. Third time? Was great! You need legit supplier. Plenty of suppliers that when you order Decca,Test,Dbol,you get what you pay for.(, sometimes underdosed) But it is VERY likely your getting one of the above,in a low dose. EQ is often used as a substitute. While I think in a perfect world! Primo would be one of the best choices for everyone. But do to it's extensive counterfeiting. Kinda best left till you have a firm grip of the basic steroids. And you know enough to realize when you maybe been duped. EQ isn't usally a problem if it's subbed. But test,or dbol can lead to amortization issues. Something you may not have to prepared for. And I'd say Primo ace is effective at 400 a week,and eth,at 500(ester weights). Considering the amount of pinning that can require( ace especially) it's best left to experienced gear heads. IMO. Besides that? It rocks. Wish I could run more of it! Lol!

 

[chemjr]

Gotta put this out there guys! Primo is probably the most faked steroid there is. Followed closly by anavar. Now I've spent some money on it,and got took twice,first two times. This is s educated guess. Third time? Was great! You need legit supplier. Plenty of suppliers that when you order Decca,Test,Dbol,you get what you pay for.(, sometimes underdosed) But it is VERY likely your getting one of the above,in a low dose. EQ is often used as a substitute. While I think in a perfect world! Primo would be one of the best choices for everyone. But do to it's extensive counterfeiting. Kinda best left till you have a firm grip of the basic steroids. And you know enough to realize when you maybe been duped. EQ isn't usally a problem if it's subbed. But test,or dbol can lead to amortization issues. Something you may not have to prepared for. And I'd say Primo ace is effective at 400 a week,and eth,at 500(ester weights). Considering the amount of pinning that can require( ace especially) it's best left to experienced gear heads. IMO. Besides that? It rocks. Wish I could run more of it! Lol!

400 for ace and 500 for enanthate bc of ester weights? Well one is going to clear around 15 days with half life of 3 days (still have about 50 at 12 days) and be about* 360ish total, while the other will enjoy a much longer half life of about 10.5 days and have about* 375 (a tad more I believe) and clearance time of up to 2months (?).
(Know im close but,... Who's going to give the exact numbers? Anyone? Bueller?)
As for the real deal, I know damn well I'm getting real primo and will never have to wonder til I change sources. And when I do hopefully I will find yet another guy who has legit stuff.
The reason primo itself* is faked so much is cost. It's about 3-5x as much as most other raws.

As for fake var, we'll that's just stupid bc it's not That expensive so any faking of things like that is just a damn shame. Along with any other faking.

And most of the time primo is faked it's faked as mast* due to them being so similar in effect on the body and mast being fairly cheap. But eq instead of primo? Never heard that one before tbh. It's not a dht and is more than mast raws so doesn't really make sense to me.

Again, I don't have to worry about it so you go ahead and use your test kit and this kind whatever you like while I enjoy the primo e I just got. Will go wonderfully with my dhb and Real var. Good day sir. (kah-rah-Teh bow).

 

[chemjr]

And I'd say Primo ace is effective at 400 a week,and eth,at 500(ester weights). Considering the amount of pinning that can require( ace especially) it's best left to experienced gear heads. IMO. Besides that? It rocks. Wish I could run more of it! Lol!

Why those doses? Some people need very little some need A Lot. So I'm curious where you ca,e up with those numbers. I guess bc both are in high 30's? Hell, for me adding in a nice 100mg (not true but label 100) on top of a few others is a great pairing. But I, sure BN/op wouldn't run any less than 300 even when stacked with many other compounds. Very subjective.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

why soo much test?

 

[bigdavid]

why soo much test?

Agree with this inquiry.

OP: I personally have not run as high Tren doses as you have, but I have experimented with Tren at 4-500 And Test about the same va Test at about 200. I have found the sides of insomnia and sweats significantly reduced with lower test. Perhaps lowering your test dose could help and maybe even let you take more Tren. Just a thought.

 

[celticthug]

Yep! Seen tons of know it all in my day! You sir are one. Your primo real,As is your var,and your Chinese GH is too. Let me inform you(young niave,id guess) Steroid dealers are drug dealers! You could get primo,test it,it's good! Next bottle ain't.

Ester weight has to do with how much a effective dose is. Moron. Due to the higher ester weight,the effective dose is higher.

And no! Mast is a fairy expensive steroid. When the fake it? They don't care if it's dht,or ****ing a Nor. EQ is cheap as **** and it don't aromatize.much.

So! Have you tried the steroid kit test! I have! Results are questionable.

Tried alot of different steroids,from alot if different sources. One thing of learned. You can't fake test(unless your a newbie) And when it comes to expensive steroids,or GH,your gonna get ripped off occasionally. That's a fact,pal.

 

[Cgrang]

To answer the original question, I was running tren a at 75mg everyday without any sides. The next blast I used it on I did 100mg/day and by week 3 I had nightsweats and became slightly lethargic and easily winded. Even with 20mg of gw501516/day. So, I found my sweetspot at 525mg/week

 

[SDLocalBoy]

My 2 cents.. Tren doesn’t make me feel good. I don’t take drugs/AAS that don’t make me feel good, my rule... Although Test, Mast, and Dbol all make me feel good. I would feel great mixing these three without an AI. I would grow two pounds a day on that stack! I’d run it for 20-40# weight gain every time, always works great!.. I can’t lift to justify such a stack any longer, but my favorite stack looked like this:
600-1000mg Test/week
400-700mg Mast/week
25-70mg/day; week 1 Dbol
70-100mg/day; week 2-3 Dbol.
I would feel invincible on this ****ing stack! Maybe a few hours here and there I could feel the androgens creep a little high, and a few other sides, but was mostly manageable for me.. I never ran it more then three weeks. My bloods were normal after a three week blast (liver,kidneys, cholesterol)... I’ve done many stacks. Tried many of the compounds. Those three mixed in that fashion for me, was nothing short of amazing! As far as the compounds mentioned in this thread and what I found to be very effective in my experience,,,, that is my two cents

 

[Country]

Im running 800mgs of tren e ive noticed for me the sides i get from tren ace are far worse than tren e even if the ace is at a lower dose maybe its just my body. Anyone noticed a different in sides from tren e to ace