This Doesn't Make sense ! Arnold and Lou vs...
- 11-19-2010, 03:28 PM
This Doesn't Make sense ! Arnold and Lou vs...
I never got my answer to questions like these
There was NO PCT back then ! How did they get their natural Test back ? If you run a cycle without pct, ur EFFED !
Also Arnold and Lou have kids, THEY HAVE KIDS lol !
Don't say it's genetics, there were lots of huge guys back in the day that took roid without PCT
- 11-19-2010, 07:43 PM
A very good question...I've been wondering the same thing!
I mean, look at all the experiments they did with steroids back in the early days. Pumping people full of the stuff. Even the olympic teams and military. Yeah, there were some serious cases, but for the most part, that I read, many of the people recovered quite normally. PCT was non-existent.
ETA: Not to imply that I think PCT protocols are unnecessary. I'm just intrigued by the history of how things were done then.
- 11-19-2010, 11:50 PM
Well you guys have to remember the body is an amazing machine with capability to heal itself from all types of damage.
People simply relied on their body to heal itself and it normally does. If you don't run a SERM, more times than not you will be just fine (if you're running moderate normal cycles).
Just takes longer to reach homeostasis and the body isn't too efficient at it. It will shoot up estrogen high and then level it down in time. A SERM is recommended during this time. and nobody depends on the body to heal itself alone nowadays with better compounds that aid in the process.
11-20-2010, 08:48 AM
The average cycle was no where near what today's pros subject themselves too. I'm sure that went a long way it aiding with recovery and muscle loss when Arny and Hulk when off their cycle.
~ Nothing can kill the Grimace!!
11-20-2010, 09:02 AM
in medical studies even after having been on anabolics for years, something like 80% of people reach 80% or higher of their original levels within 6 months after stopping anabolics.
11-20-2010, 01:48 PM
The more hyped up side effects are, the more likely you are to buy the supplements and chems that are required to negate them. All in all, for the 6 week cycles guys usually do with DS/PH, the PCT is only as important as the length of time in which they will then be off cycle.
11-20-2010, 03:30 PM
11-21-2010, 05:22 AM
11-21-2010, 11:11 PM
I suspect that those guys were more intense than todays BB's. You never heard Ferigno(spelling?) say things like, "This year Im going light and focusing more on shape and definition." Jay Cutler used to say stuff like that a lot.
11-22-2010, 08:26 AM
Here is another example of some young kid on the net who thinks all these drugs where discovered in the last 10 years.
First what do you take for your PCT?
99% of everything you take has been around longer than you have... most likely.
So if these drugs where around back in the 70's which they where...then that means the drugs where being used for and by Doctors...and most of those guys back then went to the Doctor regularly...Where do you think the idea and way to use drugs for PCT came from? Doctors....
The second thing you mentioned is you "HAVE TO" use a PCT or your f**ked, statement that you made....WRONG again my simple minded friend.
11-22-2010, 11:40 AM
11-22-2010, 06:40 PM
This thread reminds me of a story from a guy here at work.
About a year ago when I started getting into researching these compounds I got chatting with a guy here. Real good guy, funny as Hell! A guy's guy type, you know? Anyway, he's like maybe 20 yrs older than me (so 55 ish.) and I asked him if he ever used. (We were talking about gym, which he used to be right into...)
He admitted to doing 2 cycles in the past. D-Bol and Winnie. This woulda been late 70's, early 80's he did them. I believe he said both the same year, one oral, then injectable. He didnt tell me dosagaes but he did tell me this.
He bought them at his gym, they openly discussed and used them, and they injected them right in the changeroom! He said that year his bench went up 100lbs! No ****! 300lbs to 400lbs.
So, my point? : After we yapped about it I asked him, I said "What did you take for PCT?"
His reply, and I QUOTE!
I dunno what that says about the state of it today. Maybe they were 'cleaner' back then, maybe the doses were way lower. Maybe just the mindset of not thinking you needed one actually lent to not needing one (Meaning, if we always hear now we need one and someone doesn't take one, they will mentally kinda direct themselves to sides, real or not?) Far as I know he didnt ramp up and/or down either, just one dose the whole time, then off...
I asked about side effects, the only one he mentioned was a bit of an increased temper.
11-22-2010, 10:23 PM
Clomiphene and hcg i do not think where around in arnolds time if im correct they came out in the 80's early 90's
11-22-2010, 10:31 PM
I think that old bodybuilders might have had a certain mental toughness where they could push themselve at a level that would at least maintain most strength. Lifting heavy actually helps boost natural test, so maby that was part of their PCT.
11-23-2010, 02:48 PM
Lots of them stay "on" for years. Some ramped up and then down with the short half life anabolics. Some were just miserable during pct.
11-24-2010, 08:42 AM
it is actually very simple. They used lower doses, they pyramided up and tapered down and in a lot of cases they did one cycle per year. Aromatase inhibitors were not around back then. Nolva was but people didn't start using it until the eighties. Higher doses lead to more severe side effects and harsher suppression of natural hormone levels. Noone wants to here this because it is easier to think that higher doses equal more gains. What it really takes is more time and most people too impatient.
11-24-2010, 10:30 AM
11-24-2010, 07:32 PM
Supposedly Arnold would do a three month cycle every year and that was it.
More roids will equal more gains, but also more sides. Today's BB's are ****ed. I am pretty confident that they will die young with the dosages they take. Hell, even PCT puts your body through a period where estrogen is to low, which is also unhealthy.
11-25-2010, 09:17 PM
Yeah I heard Arnold only used like 10-15 mgs dbol once a year and at the most two times. He did use it was pre-contest when most of his photos were all taken close to the competition. Arnold was supposed to gain a little extra bodyfat(not too much) after the show. I truly believe he did much lower doses and that just goes to show you that less and moderate doses may be best.
Look at some of the naturals now a days they are pretty impressive
11-26-2010, 12:23 AM
11-26-2010, 01:45 AM
11-27-2010, 01:17 AM
Most likely the answer is as suggested was that they used the PULSE
Here is an old write up on it. You can see that you really didn't need a
PCT when you did it right. Plus the estros back then weren't that good.
You guys really think the guys back then didn't do steroids that much? Or
not near as much as todays bodybuilders? Or just a small cycle a few times
I read some years ago that Sergio Oliva
used to pop D-bol (oral one) like candy. And he liked liked winnie and deca.
Arnold said D-bol is a breakfast of champions. Plus he loved Winstrol.
Also read he liked Primobolan alot.
But it was thought that he just had the D-bol at one sitting for a massive androgen spike. in the AM......thus leading to a lot of intensity in the gym
The androgens were enough for CNS stimulation, however training and time dissipates the short half life of D-bol.
After most of it was gone, he would just cruise on the largely anabolic effects of Primobolan minus the androgen sides.
I have heard numbers from (30 most likely) to 60 mgs of D-bol at one sitting and 400 to 600 mgs or Primobolan a week.
11-27-2010, 01:45 AM
there is an article greg valinto did on one of Arnolds training partners(a black guy-not bill grant, it was a guy I never heard of) Greg was joking around saying some of the fitness competitors take more than the guys in the seventies and he isn't too far from the truth.
One of Arnolds training partners (the black guy) said he took low doses like 15 mgs of dianabol. I have the MD article right here maybe I can scan it
11-27-2010, 11:37 PM
11-28-2010, 12:26 AM
the dosing back then was no where close to what guys are running now.also many of these guys were doing this under the care of a doctor.
11-28-2010, 09:18 AM
I think it's highly unlikely that any information about Arnold's steroid usage is accurate. He has a reputation to uphold and he can not have the fact that he used tons of roids back in the day mess up said reputation. Not to mention he was using from such a young age (supposedly as young as 15?) and he was, by most people's definition, a genetic freak.
11-28-2010, 06:43 PM
haha if you guys think arnold or lou used 15mgs once a year I laugh at you. Have any of you seen Lou or Arnold today? They look like shrimps. I think I am bigger than both Lou and Arnold right now. Their T levels should not have dropped that much if they could legitimately hold that much muscle. I'll bet they were on all the time. Arnold has to have dialysis done regularly I heard. I have come back quite easily it's not that hard. I mean really after you get above 1100 T level it's really all the same anyway as far as recovery goes as long as you are keeping the estrogen down it's not gonna be much different given the duration is the same.
11-28-2010, 08:12 PM
Do you count your calories year round everyday? do you put your calories above and below maintenance, depending on what your body goals are and have logs on what works for your body at the time ? do you training life an effing animal cycling your intensity? are you getting 8-10 hours of sleep per night? are you using research proven supplements
I have no doubt in my mind Arnold used 10-15 mgs dbol and the fact that he was far ahead of his time in nutrition and had good "genetics" just goes to shown you that it is really easy to get Arnold's size on using not much.
You guys who doubt lower dosing are just short changing yourself, most of the time its you dont have your basics in order
11-28-2010, 09:35 PM
11-29-2010, 05:43 AM
Arnold said he used to workout 4 5 hours a day !!!!! They also didn't know **** about overtraining so I'm sure they were using high doses
He also started at 16 !!!
lol it just doesn't make sense to me I dont know !
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