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Value of building legs on an ectomorph/hard gainer?

it will help you gain muscle, your body is all 1 so work it all out and you will get biger. and it will help with your test to
 
There is no such thing as a hard gainer.. only those who are too lazyy to work hard enough, do not eat right, and do not take enough vitamin "S" to make the gains they dream of
 
codywaters said:
There is no such thing as a hard gainer.. only those who are too lazyy to work hard enough, do not eat right, and do not take enough vitamin "S" to make the gains they dream of
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so not true. as an ecto, breaking the caloric barrier is an absolute must, and has to be at extreme levels for "normal" gains. additionally, an ecto must work out differently than other lifters - having huge amounts of endurance oriented muscles means you can not only train differently, but you should, to maximize your gains.

OP, working your legs is essential to gaining serious size, not only because your body attempts to grow proportionately, but because of the extreme testosterone release from doing exercises like squats and deadlifts.
 
suncloud said:
so not true. as an ecto, breaking the caloric barrier is an absolute must, and has to be at extreme levels for "normal" gains. additionally, an ecto must work out differently than other lifters - having huge amounts of endurance oriented muscles means you can not only train differently, but you should, to maximize your gains.

OP, working your legs is essential to gaining serious size, not only because your body attempts to grow proportionately, but because of the extreme testosterone release from doing exercises like squats and deadlifts.
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although I mostly agree with the legs releasing GH and testosterone acutely,
I was a victim of not working legs years ago, and my upper body got very large with small legs. my upper body total body mass must have been greater than my legs, and training my upper body sure didn't seem to make my legs any bigger.
 
pinchharmonic said:
training my upper body sure didn't seem to make my legs any bigger.
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total test release from upper body is very slight when compared to legs - 8% from bench, vs the 15% from deadlifts, or 20% from squats. exercises with even smaller muscles (biceps, shoulders, etc) would be even lower. i think you would still have some leg growth, even though it may be very minor (1/2 inch quad gain in a year of working upper body aggressively). no growth whatsoever would surprise me a lot. maybe this should be the next harvard study :)
 
suncloud said:
total test release from upper body is very slight when compared to legs - 8% from bench, vs the 15% from deadlifts, or 20% from squats. exercises with even smaller muscles (biceps, shoulders, etc) would be even lower. i think you would still have some leg growth, even though it may be very minor (1/2 inch quad gain in a year of working upper body aggressively). no growth whatsoever would surprise me a lot. maybe this should be the next harvard study :)
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haha i'd love that study!! if any of you listen to superhumanradio, everytime they talk about hormonal responses to exercise it's always tested using squat/deadlift, so even as researchers they know the potential of hormonal change is greatest with those muscle groups.

i guess the real question is if it's enough to elicit a change on non-trained bodyparts such that it is measurable.

but until then I still agree with suncloud in that who the hell doesn't want more testosterone and growth hormone?
 
codywaters said:
There is no such thing as a hard gainer.. only those who are too lazyy to work hard enough, do not eat right, and do not take enough vitamin "S" to make the gains they dream of
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Wow fml guess I just don't "work hard enough". What an ignorant statement.
 
suncloud said:
so not true. as an ecto, breaking the caloric barrier is an absolute must, and has to be at extreme levels for "normal" gains. additionally, an ecto must work out differently than other lifters - having huge amounts of endurance oriented muscles means you can not only train differently, but you should, to maximize your gains.
QUOTE]

I do not disagree that we all have to approach building our bodies in a different manner. My point is people like to make excuses like "I am a hard gainer"... whaaaa!!! get your diet straight, get a solid workout log with difficult lifts (like you referenced in the same post) and just get after it! Our society has become so lazy looking for the next miracle to hit the market when the reality is no amount of supplements will compensate for a solid diet and intense training regime. Most of the "hard gainers" I see really just don't want to eat enough to feed their muscles because they think they won't look like the abercrombie model they so aspire to be. That is just my experience from training MANY hard gainers...
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Its not that if you dont train ur legs your upper body wont grow, or that becasue ur leg muscles are growing the rest of your body will. The extreme nature of proper leg training tho will cause stress to many other muscles in the body which in turn will help you to grow...Not to mention nothing looks freakier then massive wheels
 
codywaters said:
suncloud said:
so not true. as an ecto, breaking the caloric barrier is an absolute must, and has to be at extreme levels for "normal" gains. additionally, an ecto must work out differently than other lifters - having huge amounts of endurance oriented muscles means you can not only train differently, but you should, to maximize your gains.
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I do not disagree that we all have to approach building our bodies in a different manner. My point is people like to make excuses like "I am a hard gainer"... whaaaa!!! get your diet straight, get a solid workout log with difficult lifts (like you referenced in the same post) and just get after it! Our society has become so lazy looking for the next miracle to hit the market when the reality is no amount of supplements will compensate for a solid diet and intense training regime. Most of the "hard gainers" I see really just don't want to eat enough to feed their muscles because they think they won't look like the abercrombie model they so aspire to be. That is just my experience from training MANY hard gainers...
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There is some truth here and I can relate. I'm not a trainer. I want to gain lean mass but usually fail to eat enough... :( Not because I want to look like a skinny model... now that I think about it I don't know why I don't eat more!
 
hahaha I laugh now when I see the words "hardgainer". It just mean "puss" in my opinion.

If you are a hardgainer/ectomorph, it really just means "good metabolism". So ALL you have to do, is eat 50 times more. Doesn't matter what you deadlift, squat, bench, yadada hormones this hormones that....blah blah.

I have low end T. I used to weigh 135lbs at 5%BF when I ate like a human. Now I eat like a T-rex, and I weigh almost 190 solid 12%. Took about 4 good years to discover T-rex style eating concept.

So next time you think, I'm too skinny, Ill never be strong, I must lift harder. WRONG. Stop bi*ching, start eating. Next time you think about watching a movie, WRONG, eat first. Next time you think about going to a party, Wrong, Eat first.

1. stop
2. think
3. eat

Then thankyouself that you don't get fat from the calories and instead get muscular.

Wow. Problem is now completely solved for all the scientists and hardgainers.
 
Just to further my point, this is an article from T-nation today... enjoy

Five Reasons You're Still Skinny
by Mike Robertson

Let's clear this up right away: you are not a "hardgainer." Please stop using the term; it's so self-defeating. And let's face it, if you call yourself a hardgainer it's pretty fair to say you've given up on yourself. At the very least you've already assumed that's it going to be ridiculously hard for you to put on any appreciable size. Bull****.

Sure, some of us didn't exactly hit the genetic lottery, but to get all Tony Robbins on you for a second, a lot of achieving your goals starts with your mindset.

If you truly believe you can get bigger, chances are you'll figure out ways to do it.

So let's stop with the excuses and go over why you're still small.

to continue, to to t-nation . com
 
codywaters said:
Just to further my point, this is an article from T-nation today... enjoy

Five Reasons You're Still Skinny
by Mike Robertson

Let's clear this up right away: you are not a "hardgainer." Please stop using the term; it's so self-defeating. And let's face it, if you call yourself a hardgainer it's pretty fair to say you've given up on yourself. At the very least you've already assumed that's it going to be ridiculously hard for you to put on any appreciable size. Bull****.

Sure, some of us didn't exactly hit the genetic lottery, but to get all Tony Robbins on you for a second, a lot of achieving your goals starts with your mindset.

If you truly believe you can get bigger, chances are you'll figure out ways to do it.

So let's stop with the excuses and go over why you're still small.

to continue, to to t-nation . com
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excellent. In otherwards, remove the tampon.
 
yeah im an ecto took me 5k cals a day to gain weight and i couldn't do it without a weight gainer. GL
 
Yup, that absolutly true.
I've had a hard time to gain some weight in the past, but I started to do some experiences with me and started to see the results. For instance, when I first started I didn't eat any fatty food because iI tought it would make me fat. But when the summer started I started to eat more ice cream and junk and things that I would never eat before thinking that since I'm not training I'll get myself back in shape when I come back, but when the summer ended I've finaly acomplished a goal that I've never haded before: surpassing the 180 lbs barrier and with almost no lost of muscle mass. So I figured it out, what would happen if i do this on a strict extremely high caloric bulk diet with instead of bad ice cream fats I start having good healthy nuts and olive oil fats? results: when I came back to the gym in the begining of this month I was weighting 180lbs, today I'm weighting 190lbs! That's 10lbs of mass not intirely muscle as obvious, but about one or two pounds of fat in this hole weight. Now this are serious gains for a suposedly "hard-gainer".
After all, eating big as in a Greg Kovacs-like diet isn't that hard if you think you'll get that big eating like him;)
 
As hard as you skinny guys have to work to put on some mass.. us naturally bulky guys have to work to get ripped. Personally, I would rather have the soloution of eating more then eating less....
 
monsterbox said:
well, i spend way to much on food.
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Well, if you look right to the most caloric things that you can eat and don't care much of getting some fat there are plenty of good and cheap food that you can use, but you are right that proportionaly to a bulky guy we have to spent more money in more quantity of food then they have.
And if you are a tall ectomorph like me, it is even more desencouraging when you look at the scale and you see 10 new pounds, but when it comes to your mirror you're pritty much the same:(
 
codywaters said:
There is no such thing as a hard gainer.. only those who are too lazyy to work hard enough, do not eat right, and do not take enough vitamin "S" to make the gains they dream of
Click to expand...


That is just stupid as f*ck. Genetics......come on, before I even lifted a weight I played soccer and had big quads. I didn't do a thing different than some of my team mates with skinny legs.....geeeeeenetics. They would have had to lift and do everything perfect for 2 years to have the quads I had while I did nothing.

Come on.......
 
codywaters said:
There is no such thing as a hard gainer.. only those who are too lazyy to work hard enough, do not eat right, and do not take enough vitamin "S" to make the gains they dream of
Click to expand...

Ive heard this arguement to many times....Im telling you, You dont know until your a real Hardgainer. I who bust his ass 5 days a week in gym, eats double the cals most eat just for maints.
 
haha to answer the OP

Working legs will raise your test levels if done correctly. Meaning legs doesn't take you 2 hours to complete shooting cortisol through the roof etc. But dont worry about the hormone side of things!!

Legs are a massive massive part of your overall muscle mass. A leg day will suck you dry, after my leg day when i get home it is hard to get off the bed in the first hour. Regardless dong legs is like everything else, eat what your body needs to grow, itll do the rest.

Will your chest/bis get smaller because you work legs? Not if you eat right. If you eat like a bird then walking to your car will make you loose weight too, anything that uses a calorie

Will you chest/bis get bigger doing legs? Your whole damn body will get bigger if you squat and squat right and eat like everyone is saying

Get into legs my man! Trust me when you look at yourself in the mirror you'll be flexing those quads before anything else. Don't be like Arnold in my avatar haha
 
Heavy squatting is the key to overall thickness. I've gone from 150lbs and a pot to sporting an 18.5-19" neck thanks to squatting. The cure for the pencil neck. You can see the benefits by seeing your whole body pumped. Obvious growth and recovery benefits.
 
roids1 said:
There is no such thing as a hard gainer. Only lazy and pathetic slobs. If you want a good physique, upper and lower, then STFU and squat.


GICH!
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Hardgainer just means fast metabolism. So yes it's ignornat statemnt because its harder to put on mass. So in essence your saying genetics have nothing to do with metabolic rate. Now, I agree with the fact that people need not be pussies and say oh **** I'm a hardgainer ill never be big, but hardgainers do exist however you would like to phrase it. I know how to gain weight I was 120lbs same height sophmore year of college and I started eating like a pig and lifting and I'm 185 right now at 8.5% BF. I've been as high as 200 but I was more fat than muscle.
 
suncloud said:
so not true. as an ecto, breaking the caloric barrier is an absolute must, and has to be at extreme levels for "normal" gains. additionally, an ecto must work out differently than other lifters - having huge amounts of endurance oriented muscles means you can not only train differently, but you should, to maximize your gains.

OP, working your legs is essential to gaining serious size, not only because your body attempts to grow proportionately, but because of the extreme testosterone release from doing exercises like squats and deadlifts.
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This man speaks truth.

Reps Sun.
 
someone give me money so I can eat properly. I've always considered myself a "hardgainer" starting lifting at the weight of 127lbs and two years later only weigh 140lbs. This is after busting my a$$ in the gym and eating as much as possible for a broke college student.

Im no trainer or expert but, to answer the OP I used to never do legs. Right when I started lifting legs i gained about 5 pounds in a few months. your legs are huge muscles dont forget about them. they suck at first, but once you get them stronger its so fun to put up big weight.
 
jmonteil said:
someone give me money so I can eat properly. I've always considered myself a "hardgainer" starting lifting at the weight of 127lbs and two years later only weigh 140lbs. This is after busting my a$$ in the gym and eating as much as possible for a broke college student.

Im no trainer or expert but, to answer the OP I used to never do legs. Right when I started lifting legs i gained about 5 pounds in a few months. your legs are huge muscles dont forget about them. they suck at first, but once you get them stronger its so fun to put up big weight.
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Go to the store. Buy a bottle of Extra Virgin Olive Oil. Periodically take shots from it throughout the day. "Hardgainer" no more.
 
jmonteil said:
someone give me money so I can eat properly. I've always considered myself a "hardgainer" starting lifting at the weight of 127lbs and two years later only weigh 140lbs. This is after busting my a$$ in the gym and eating as much as possible for a broke college student.

Im no trainer or expert but, to answer the OP I used to never do legs. Right when I started lifting legs i gained about 5 pounds in a few months. your legs are huge muscles dont forget about them. they suck at first, but once you get them stronger its so fun to put up big weight.
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shhhhhhhhhhhh..........

I dont want to share the squat rack.

lol
 
Resolve said:
Go to the store. Buy a bottle of Extra Virgin Olive Oil. Periodically take shots from it throughout the day. "Hardgainer" no more.
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does the olive oil thing really work?? im down for any way to up the calories without burning a hole in my wallet.
 
jmonteil said:
does the olive oil thing really work?? im down for any way to up the calories without burning a hole in my wallet.
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Why wouldn't it? It's easy, compact, portable calories that promotes healthy hormone levels and won't cause an insulin spike. I do oil "shots" on a regular basis when I need quick cals and it certainly helps when I'm trying to gain.

Also, I was shown some very provocative data today suggesting that a high fat diet, done right, increases thermogenesis, which = less bodyfat, so what's not to like about that?

Edit: but beware, straight EVOO is not tasty by any means...
 
I am an ecto and its a ass trying to gain weight but then even more of an ass to make it stick. One day of not eating the same you can easily lose 3 to 5 pounds in one day.
 
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