Question on Toco 8

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    Question on Toco 8


    "However, in terms of the weight of the hair, no statistically significant difference (p>0.05) between pre- and post-supplementation was detected for both groups of volunteers (tocotrienol and placebo). The mean percentage of weight increment was 16.4±42.5% in the tocotrienol formulation group while that of the placebo group had an increase of 5.7±40.1%. (Table 2)."

    No increase in weight of hair. What is the implications of this for using Toco-8 to address hair loss?

    Also, any chance of capping this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kelvin_chia View Post
    "However, in terms of the weight of the hair, no statistically significant difference (p>0.05) between pre- and post-supplementation was detected for both groups of volunteers (tocotrienol and placebo). The mean percentage of weight increment was 16.4±42.5% in the tocotrienol formulation group while that of the placebo group had an increase of 5.7±40.1%. (Table 2)."

    No increase in weight of hair. What is the implications of this for using Toco-8 to address hair loss?

    Also, any chance of capping this?
    Right there wasn’t a significant change in hair weight (individual hair). It was an increase in hair count that the Toco-8 helps with. (hairs per square centimeter)

    Right now we don’t see a reason to cap the product. It doesn’t taste bad (in most people’s opinion) and it easily mixes with water or juice. I personally like taking it straight out of the can.

    -Pp
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    My bad, PP. It was the weight of individual strands of hair, not the weight of all hairs in a given area, which would have definitely increased given that hair count would increase.

    Thanks for clearing up. Will be looking to order some soon.

    Kelvin
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    Just placed an order a couple of days back, and I must say, extremely fast processing and delivery!

    Looking forward to the results after a few months. Will post reviews then, possibly with photos =)
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelvin_chia View Post
    Just placed an order a couple of days back, and I must say, extremely fast processing and delivery!

    Looking forward to the results after a few months. Will post reviews then, possibly with photos =)
    That would be great Kevin. Thank you.

    -Pp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    Right there wasn’t a significant change in hair weight (individual hair). It was an increase in hair count that the Toco-8 helps with. (hairs per square centimeter)

    Right now we don’t see a reason to cap the product. It doesn’t taste bad (in most people’s opinion) and it easily mixes with water or juice. I personally like taking it straight out of the can.

    -Pp
    kinda funny, but I like the aftertaste of toco more than the primary taste.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeN View Post
    kinda funny, but I like the aftertaste of toco more than the primary taste.
    Yeah, I actualy just like the taste strait outta the can. I also like the taste of Phyto, so maybe Im a little wierd.

    -Pp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    Yeah, I actualy just like the taste strait outta the can. I also like the taste of Phyto, so maybe Im a little wierd.

    -Pp
    yes, I've found that it doesn't blend so well with my shakes and I wanted to get full benefit so I just take a scoop by itself and chase it with water. Definitely an acquired taste.
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    I've been thinking of just throwing it into my mouth and chasing it, I've also looked on the internet for capsule formulations of tocotrienols, but honestly I can't really find any products that seem to match the quality that primordial performance has put into the product, they don't have as many different kinds of tocotrienols and they also add tocopherols (which is not so good for you I think, correct me if I'm wrong).

    Also carotech, the company that primordial performance buys the stuff from doesn't sell directly to the mass market (at least I don't think they do).

    Well anyways it seems that there are different variations on tocomin, check out the following page: Welcome to Carotech - Tocomin.

    So eric, from what I can gather, you guys use the regular tocomin version, why do you guys use this version? There is also a bio-availability enhanced version, why do you guys not use this? or do you guys already use it but without labeling?

    Also I think I read somewhere that carotech is working on making tocotrienols even more bio-available. Did they already come out with this with the above-mentioned product or is this still in the works?

    Also the following site states that toco-8 is rapidly absorbed by the skin: Tocotrienol.org - Your Online Source of Information on Tocotrienol - Health Benefits. Just go down the the paragraph about anti-aging. So I wonder if it might be a good idea to combine the tocotrienols into a product like sustain alpha, or if there would be any added benefit of making a topical tocotrienol product to be applied to the scalp. I also heard that tocotrienols work better and in synergy with resveratrol and curcumin, whats your thought on this eric?

    I'm also thinking that you've mentioned something in the past about coming out with a new greens/superfood supplement? Will this or any existing supplement of the like have any sort of synergistic anti-oxidant effect with the tocotrienols?

    PS: I haven't tried endoamp but will be buying some, how is the taste on that and is it possible to throw a scoop straight out of the can down your throat like it is for toco-8?

    Sorry if I'm over-barraging you with questions
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Skiba View Post
    I've been thinking of just throwing it into my mouth and chasing it, I've also looked on the internet for capsule formulations of tocotrienols, but honestly I can't really find any products that seem to match the quality that primordial performance has put into the product, they don't have as many different kinds of tocotrienols and they also add tocopherols (which is not so good for you I think, correct me if I'm wrong).

    Also carotech, the company that primordial performance buys the stuff from doesn't sell directly to the mass market (at least I don't think they do).

    Well anyways it seems that there are different variations on tocomin, check out the following page: Welcome to Carotech - Tocomin.

    So eric, from what I can gather, you guys use the regular tocomin version, why do you guys use this version? There is also a bio-availability enhanced version, why do you guys not use this? or do you guys already use it but without labeling?

    Also I think I read somewhere that carotech is working on making tocotrienols even more bio-available. Did they already come out with this with the above-mentioned product or is this still in the works?

    Also the following site states that toco-8 is rapidly absorbed by the skin: Tocotrienol.org - Your Online Source of Information on Tocotrienol - Health Benefits. Just go down the the paragraph about anti-aging. So I wonder if it might be a good idea to combine the tocotrienols into a product like sustain alpha, or if there would be any added benefit of making a topical tocotrienol product to be applied to the scalp. I also heard that tocotrienols work better and in synergy with resveratrol and curcumin, whats your thought on this eric?

    I'm also thinking that you've mentioned something in the past about coming out with a new greens/superfood supplement? Will this or any existing supplement of the like have any sort of synergistic anti-oxidant effect with the tocotrienols?

    PS: I haven't tried endoamp but will be buying some, how is the taste on that and is it possible to throw a scoop straight out of the can down your throat like it is for toco-8?

    Sorry if I'm over-barraging you with questions
    Hey Matt,

    Yes, there are a lot of other Tocotrienols on the market, most of them oil (Tocomin) in gel caps with reduced bioavailability. We use the water soluble “Tocomax” powder which offers enhanced bioavailability similar to the new oil based “Suprabio” tocotrienols you mentioned. We wanted the powdered version for ease of dosing, packing and mixing. And your right, Carotech doesn’t sell directly to the consumer.

    The Tocotrienols have distinct orange color that may impart and undesirable orange tint to the skin. I’m sure there are skin health benefits, but we already have anti-oxidants built into our topical base so we don’t see the need to add the tocotrienols. Plus, there are so many systemic benefits, we figure why try to isolate the effects to the skin?... (that’s mainly for drugs you don’t want going systemic)

    Yes, we do have plans for a powdered superfood, probably something that could be stacked with the Toco for additional benefit. However this product is several months away.

    -Pp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    Hey Matt,

    Yes, there are a lot of other Tocotrienols on the market, most of them oil (Tocomin) in gel caps with reduced bioavailability. We use the water soluble “Tocomax” powder which offers enhanced bioavailability similar to the new oil based “Suprabio” tocotreinols you mentioned. We wanted the powdered version for ease of dosing and packing, and mixing. And your right, Carotech doesn’t sell directly to the consumer.

    The Tocotrienols have distinct orange color that may impart and undesirable orange tint to the skin. I’m sure there are skin health benefits, but we already have anti-oxidants built into our topical base so we don’t see the need to add the tocotrienols. Plus, there are so many systemic benefits, we figure why try to isolate the effects to the skin?... (that’s mainly for drugs you don’t want going systemic)

    Yes, we do have plans for a powdered superfood, probably something that could be stacked with the Toco for additional benefit. However this product is several months away.

    -Pp
    Nice summary.
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    What is the general consensus on quitting minoxidil while continuing to take toco-8?

    Maybe I should take toco-8 for 4-6 months before I stop using minoxidil? Should I use topical spironolactone to buffer myself off?

    Also.. does toco-8 trigger an intial shedding phase before the regrowth comes in?

    I'm only on my first can still, but I've actually begun using it twice every day as suggested, after about 2 weeks or so I honestly think shedding has increased (which could indicate a very good thing) and this seems to have a synergistic effect with minoxidil and nizoral. Also I would never touch finasteride again after what it's done to me, and I'm starting to feel that this could possibly be a legit alternative, as I'm actually seeing an increase in hair loss, but I might possibly be seeing some new stubbly hairs on the very, very front of my hairline (I have very mild hair loss and just about no one will tell me I'm balding, I've got more of a widow's peak kind of formation with thinning patches of hair on the sides so I already have a good supply of hairs to potentially rejuvinate).

    I'm gonna keep doing this, and hopefully in about 5 months or so I'll start seeing significant improvements.

    My only wish is that a study had existed stating that all the people suffered from androgenic baldness.
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    I wouldn’t say increased shedding is a common first phase (haven’t heard anything about this). In your situation, it’s hard to say why this is happening because your also using 2 other products that may be causing this.

    I honestly don’t know the rebound effects of minoxidil to say if quitting it is a save option.

    -Pp


    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Skiba View Post
    What is the general consensus on quitting minoxidil while continuing to take toco-8?

    Maybe I should take toco-8 for 4-6 months before I stop using minoxidil? Should I use topical spironolactone to buffer myself off?

    Also.. does toco-8 trigger an intial shedding phase before the regrowth comes in?

    I'm only on my first can still, but I've actually begun using it twice every day as suggested, after about 2 weeks or so I honestly think shedding has increased (which could indicate a very good thing) and this seems to have a synergistic effect with minoxidil and nizoral. Also I would never touch finasteride again after what it's done to me, and I'm starting to feel that this could possibly be a legit alternative, as I'm actually seeing an increase in hair loss, but I might possibly be seeing some new stubbly hairs on the very, very front of my hairline (I have very mild hair loss and just about no one will tell me I'm balding, I've got more of a widow's peak kind of formation with thinning patches of hair on the sides so I already have a good supply of hairs to potentially rejuvinate).

    I'm gonna keep doing this, and hopefully in about 5 months or so I'll start seeing significant improvements.

    My only wish is that a study had existed stating that all the people suffered from androgenic baldness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    Hey Matt,

    Yes, there are a lot of other Tocotrienols on the market, most of them oil (Tocomin) in gel caps with reduced bioavailability. We use the water soluble “Tocomax” powder which offers enhanced bioavailability similar to the new oil based “Suprabio” tocotrienols you mentioned. We wanted the powdered version for ease of dosing, packing and mixing. And your right, Carotech doesn’t sell directly to the consumer.

    The Tocotrienols have distinct orange color that may impart and undesirable orange tint to the skin. I’m sure there are skin health benefits, but we already have anti-oxidants built into our topical base so we don’t see the need to add the tocotrienols. Plus, there are so many systemic benefits, we figure why try to isolate the effects to the skin?... (that’s mainly for drugs you don’t want going systemic)

    Yes, we do have plans for a powdered superfood, probably something that could be stacked with the Toco for additional benefit. However this product is several months away.

    -Pp
    Is this distinct orange color anything like idebenone? I could imagine adding the two to a topical and wind up looking like george hamiltion or a pumpkin.
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    I have not noticed any increased shedding from Toco 8 so far.

    Matt, I would also not ever use finasteride again. Probably for the same reasons as you. Let's keep each other updated about our progress.

    Just some background on my own situation. I experienced noticeable shedding after using M1T and accutane in mid 2005. I don't know if only one of the two compounds is responsible, or if both are responsible. My shedding is rather diffused (not the typical MPB pattern), and so I think accutane is at least partly responsible. M1T is also a pretty strong androgen. While I never had much trouble with my hair from previous AAS usage, it might be different with M1T given its strong androgenic character.

    I have tried finasteride last year, but I honestly didn't like it. I am currently using a generic minoxidil/azelaic acid spray, and shampoo with nioxin and the "pregaine" shampoo (that is supposed to be used in conjunction with "regaine" from pfizer) on a rotational basis. They do help to control sebum production to some extent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderlei View Post
    Is this distinct orange color anything like idebenone? I could imagine adding the two to a topical and wind up looking like george hamiltion or a pumpkin.
    Are you asking if the tocotrienols have similar action to the idebenone...? Im really not sure about this.

    You're right about the orange skin though...

    -Pp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    Are you asking if the tocotrienols have similar action to the idebenone...? Im really not sure about this.

    You're right about the orange skin though...

    -Pp
    Only in reference to the color. I wonder if there would be any merit in adding it to a skin/aftershave cream. I'll probably just stick with oral consumption though. But someone needs to kick NP in the butt and get them to carry it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    Are you asking if the tocotrienols have similar action to the idebenone...? Im really not sure about this...
    -Pp
    Loosely speaking, the only similarity between tocotrienols and idebenone is that they are both antioxidants. Other than that, they work via completely different pathways to deliver different results. Idebenone is basically a more potent form of coenzyme-q10 (ubiquinone not ubiquinol).
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    Loosely speaking, the only similarity between tocotrienols and idebenone is that they are both antioxidants. Other than that, they work via completely different pathways to deliver different results. Idebenone is basically a more potent form of coenzyme-q10 (ubiquinone not ubiquinol).
    Yes, and they would probably compliement each other nicely. I was thinking of making a skin cream for the summer months ahead but both might make me look too orange. I wish there were more retailers who carried this so I could buy it with my next order.
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