Dermacrine Sustain vs SERM's

Travis

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Okay, I wanted to post this in here as I think there is some debate on this issue. AND yes I am possibly suggesting that Sustain could be used in place of a SERM (nolva, torem, clomid, etc).

A SERM is used post cycle therapy to basically block the negative effects of estrogen while your hormone levels return to normal after discontinuing using a source of exogenous test (steroid, ph's).

Basically a SERM doesnt necessarily reduce estrogen but it blocks receptors from the negative side effects of high estrogen floating around in the body. This is taken from post cycle therapy.com explaining how Clomid works:

Clomid is capable of reacting with all of the tissues in the body that have estrogen receptors. It influences the way that the four hormones GnRH, FSH, LH and estradiol, relate and interrelate. It appears that Clomid fools the body into believing that the estrogen level is low. This altered feedback information causes the hypothalamus to make and release more gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH) which in turn causes the pituitary to make and release more FSH and LH. More follicle stimulating hormone and more luteinizing hormone should result in increased testosterone production.

Now Sustain, from my understanding is designed to "control estrogen" (with the phyto-al blend) while at the same time reducing/stopping negative effects of estrogen (with resveratrol).

So my question is a SERM still needed? The obvious bad things about SERMs are toxicity issues. Which could potentially make Sustain superior in post cycle therapy. What is everyones thoughts (and I know most here will be very partial to using SERMs).
 

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SERMs, specifically clomiphene, have enormous amounts of clinical research illustrating their effectiveness in restoring HPTA function after harsh steroid cycles.

Though Sustain looks like a promising product (I intend to give it a run within a month or so) I would not substitute it when SERMs have the research showing that in the specific situation of steroid use, they allow recovery.
 
Travis

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SERMs, specifically clomiphene, have enormous amounts of clinical research illustrating their effectiveness in restoring HPTA function after harsh steroid cycles.

Though Sustain looks like a promising product (I intend to give it a run within a month or so) I would not substitute it when SERMs have the research showing that in the specific situation of steroid use, they allow recovery.
Just so I am clear you will be using a SERM + Sustain in your PCT?

I think that is probably the best option right now, and I agree there isnt as much data to support a product like sustain but I guess thats what I'm after....more opinions.
 
thesinner

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The issue is simply that you're swimming in 'uncharted waters'.

Resveratrol is a great ER antagonist, but is still relatively new to the science community.

Has it been clinically shown to modulate ER's?
Yes.
Has it been clinically shown to increase testosterone?
Yes.
Has it been clinically shown to block ER's in breast tissues?
You betcha.
Has it been clinically shown to quickly return the body to homeostasis following a suppressive anabolic steroids cycle?
No.
Will it assist in returning the body to homeostasis following a steroids cycle?
Probably.
Is there any information comparing it to a SERM for use in returning the body to homeostasis after a suppressive anabolic steroids cycle?
No.

You're replacing a chemical that was designed specifically to block estrogen receptors, with a chemical found in grapes and peanuts that coincidentally has the ability to bind to ER-alpha and ER-beta without promoting an estrogenic effect.
 
EasyEJL

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well again here tho, recall that SERMs were not designed with us in mind... so although in some ways they do manage to give the results we want, I hate looking at their side effect list (vaginal discharge anyone?). I am almost willing to place my testicles up for this, and do a regular cycle instead of a pulse in late october/early nov, and just use resveratrol as post cycle therapy. something like 500mg a day thru cycle, 1g/day last week of cycle, 2g a day following 2 weeks, 1g a day the 2 weeks after that. Of course, with a good serm handy just in case it doesnt work out :D
 
thesinner

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I love getting those vaginal discharges after my cycle is over.
 
EasyEJL

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I love getting those vaginal discharges after my cycle is over.
Don't forget the ovarian enlargement. I guess Amenorrhea is ok as a side effect (Absence or cessation of menstruation)

what confuses me still on nolva is this

NOLVADEX is well tolerated in males with breast cancer. Reports from the literature and case reports suggest that the safety profile of NOLVADEX in males is similar to that seen in women. Loss of libido and impotence have resulted in discontinuation of tamoxifen therapy in male patients. Also, in oligospermic males treated with tamoxifen, LH, FSH, testosterone and estrogen levels were elevated. No significant clinical changes were reported.
I mean crap, it raises estrogen ?? isn't that against the point?
 
thesinner

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Don't forget the ovarian enlargement. I guess Amenorrhea is ok as a side effect (Absence or cessation of menstruation)

what confuses me still on nolva is this



I mean crap, it raises estrogen ?? isn't that against the point?
SERM's are Estrogen Receptor Antagonists

Let's look at caffeine to get a better example of what I'm getting at:

Caffeine is an andrenergic Antagonist. What happens when you drink a crap load of coffee (caffeine)? It your epinephrine/norepinephrine levels go through the roof and you get all 'buzzed'. What happens later in the day? You crash like a airplane without wings. You're body lowers it's epinephrine/norepinephrine levels to compensate for the blocked receptors, and guess what, they're not blocked anymore.
 
Eric Potratz

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Usually, the decision for someone to use Sustain over Clomid or Nolva is to avoid the side-effecs of these SERMs. I personally don’t use either clomid or nolva due to there extensive toxic profile. (liver toxic, ocular toxic, genotoxic, libido suppressing, ect)

Clomid and Nolva are synthetic estrogens that have super-estrogen effects, anti-estrogenic effects, and screwy DNA damaging effects depending on the bodily tissue and metabolite. I went through exhaustive research with these compounds, and the closer you look at them, the more damaging they appear.

Consider this – We are about to enter the 3th major generation of medical SERMS. Clomid and Nolva are first generation SERM’s with the worst side effect profile, toremifene and raloxifene are second generation, and bazedoxifene, arzoxifene, and lasofoxifene are 3rd generation. Each generation improves upon the previous generation by being less toxic. That should tell you something. I can post a full referenced write up on this.

Everyone who has replaced their typical SERMs with Sustain has been more than happy. So far, everyone claims to actually be recovering better with Sustain, compared to clomid or nolva. While I do believe Sustain to be equally effective for PCT purposes, I think people’s results are so positive because they are simply suffering from less side effects. (Contrary to popular believe, post cycle sexual dysfunction is often a result of PCT drugs such as clomid or nolva, not low testosterone)

-Pp
 
Travis

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Usually, the decision for someone to use Sustain over Clomid or Nolva is to avoid the side-effecs of these SERMs. I personally don’t use either clomid or nolva due to there extensive toxic profile. (liver toxic, ocular toxic, genotoxic, libido suppressing, ect)

Clomid and Nolva are synthetic estrogens that have super-estrogen effects, anti-estrogenic effects, and screwy DNA damaging effects depending on the bodily tissue and metabolite. I went through exhaustive research with these compounds, and the closer you look at them, the more damaging they appear.

Consider this – We are about to enter the 3th major generation of medical SERMS. Clomid and Nolva are first generation SERM’s with the worst side effect profile, toremifene and raloxifene are second generation, and bazedoxifene, arzoxifene, and lasofoxifene are 3rd generation. Each generation improves upon the previous generation by being less toxic. That should tell you something. I can post a full referenced write up on this.

Everyone who has replaced their typical SERMs with Sustain has been more than happy. So far, everyone claims to actually be recovering better with Sustain, compared to clomid or nolva. While I do believe Sustain to be equally effective for post cycle therapy purposes, I think people’s results are so positive because they are simply suffering from less side effects. (Contrary to popular believe, post cycle sexual dysfunction is often a result of PCT drugs such as clomid or nolva, not low testosterone)

-Pp
Nice post. I am basically asking this as I have an upcoming PCT. I have SERMs on hand but I am debating using them with the Sustain. I have used nolva before and had bloodwork taken afterwards that showed no signs of liver stress (albeit the bloodwork was approx one month after PCT). With that in mind is there any problem using both for a very effective PCT?

Im still debating. Perhaps I will run low dose nolva for a week or two in pct on top of the Sustain. The compounds I am using (Epidrol+Dermacrine) are not all that toxic or harsh to begin with.
 
EasyEJL

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and bazedoxifene, arzoxifene, and lasofoxifene are 3rd generation. Each generation improves upon the previous generation by being less toxic. That should tell you something. I can post a full referenced write up on this.
Since sourcing isn't allowed by AM rules, you can't be specific as to where in your answer, but have you seen these 3rd gen SERMs available without a prescription?
 
thesinner

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Since sourcing isn't allowed by AM rules, you can't be specific as to where in your answer, but have you seen these 3rd gen SERMs available without a prescription?
I don't think you can even get these by prescription yet.

Pharmacists use a special concept/method called Click Chemistry which enables them to rapidly design MANY different drugs of the same class. They are 99% sure of what's gonna happen with these drugs before they are ever even synthesized.


After they're created, they still need to be tested and evaluated before they can be put to use.
 
EasyEJL

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I don't think you can even get these by prescription yet.

Pharmacists use a special concept/method called Click Chemistry which enables them to rapidly design MANY different drugs of the same class. They are 99% sure of what's gonna happen with these drugs before they are ever even synthesized.


After they're created, they still need to be tested and evaluated before they can be put to use.
I thought there was FDA approval on bazedoxifene, but looking back it was the provisionally approvable letter, back in april. the others are still in studies. pity.

I guess i'm back to deciding whether to play testicle roulette with resveratrol, or liver roulette with nolva
 
thesinner

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I prefer to play russian hooker roullete. This requires 6 hookers, one of which is either a Transvestite or has the Clap. It's quite fun.
 
Travis

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I prefer to play russian hooker roullete. This requires 6 hookers, one of which is either a Transvestite or has the Clap. It's quite fun.
I've tried this PCT before....never worked out for me. :lol:
 
Eric Potratz

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Since sourcing isn't allowed by AM rules, you can't be specific as to where in your answer, but have you seen these 3rd gen SERMs available without a prescription?
Without a script? Nope...

-Pp
 

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Bump. Anyone tried running sustain as standalone (in place of SERM) PCT yet?
 
Travis

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Bump. Anyone tried running sustain as standalone (in place of SERM) post cycle therapy yet?
Check out my sig. Also I have read quite a few logs on other forums of guys using this solo. At least one I can think of is comin off a 20 weeker. What type of cycle were you considering?
 

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Yeah, I just checked out your log. I'm gonna run Epi (maybe stack with furz) in a couple months with torem PCT but sustain really got my interest. Anything new to report on how you feel with the sustain?
 

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I ran low doses of test last fall all the way to beginning of summer. Dropped the test and went to Epistane with Formastane until july. Then went to epistane and a little dermacrine. For the last 3 wks I have been running Sustain and can actually say I feel normal. Had maybe a week lag period but I think it works better than nolva or clomid ever has. My only thing is that I would like the price around 40 bones instead of 60! I recommend it to everybody.
 
Force of Green

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I was running Havoc and then Epistane intermittenly, and then I dropped Havoc completely after drawing my conclusion that Epistane reacted better with my body... I began megadosing X-Lean as well and I just started my Tea-3 (which I'll be taking forever) and Dermacrine. I'm running 4 pumps of Dermacrine in the morning and 4 at night so I'll finish off the Dermacrine the same time I finish the Epistane.

PCT: Dermacrine Sustain, toremifene citrate, X-Lean megadosed tapering down, and Retain 2 which I'll be running indefinitely (relora and 7-keto are perfectly fine and non-toxic long term)

I also have some topical 7-keto (Omega Sports Systematic 7)

After my PCT I have a REALLY sweet long term supplement plan that I am polishing up and will write down if anyone's interested. LOL (Probably not)... but I like the Tea-3 product. I take 2 caps/2x per day and I reduced my RPM dose to 1 cap, twice a day. The energy is smooth.

I'm seeing some sick results from my current regimen (especially megadosing the X-Lean) and my midsection is ripping up like a stack of bricks.

Is there any harm of running topical 7-keto during my 4 week PCT?
 
Travis

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I was running Havoc and then Epistane intermittenly, and then I dropped Havoc completely after drawing my conclusion that Epistane reacted better with my body... I began megadosing X-Lean as well and I just started my Tea-3 (which I'll be taking forever) and Dermacrine. I'm running 4 pumps of Dermacrine in the morning and 4 at night so I'll finish off the Dermacrine the same time I finish the Epistane.

post cycle therapy: Dermacrine Sustain, toremifene citrate, X-Lean megadosed tapering down, and Retain 2 which I'll be running indefinitely (relora and 7-keto are perfectly fine and non-toxic long term)

I also have some topical 7-keto (Omega Sports Systematic 7)

After my PCT I have a REALLY sweet long term supplement plan that I am polishing up and will write down if anyone's interested. LOL (Probably not)... but I like the Tea-3 product. I take 2 caps/2x per day and I reduced my RPM dose to 1 cap, twice a day. The energy is smooth.

I'm seeing some sick results from my current regimen (especially megadosing the X-Lean) and my midsection is ripping up like a stack of bricks.

Is there any harm of running topical 7-keto during my 4 week PCT?
Hmm, got some issues with cortisol or what? Lol, just playin. Sounds good though.
 
Force of Green

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I definitely do Travis. My abs are f*in chizzled like a sculpture now and getting better!
 

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Force of Green, id be interested to hear your long term supplement plan if you dont mind. I have the Dermacrine products aswell, that im going to start soon.


Im interested in mega dosing X-Lean too, i think i have high cortisol aswell, and just did a 24 hour urine cortisol test, and will know where i stand next week.


Can you give me the details on how much you took, for how long, and did you build up the dose,ect?


Thanks.
 
Force of Green

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Force of Green, id be interested to hear your long term supplement plan if you dont mind. I have the Dermacrine products aswell, that im going to start soon.


Im interested in mega dosing X-Lean too, i think i have high cortisol aswell, and just did a 24 hour urine cortisol test, and will know where i stand next week.


Can you give me the details on how much you took, for how long, and did you build up the dose,ect?


Thanks.
Cool beans Superone. I'll post the supplement plan and the X-Lean schematic as well.

I see a lot of really interesting products coming out from the wood-work... I think we all do. I'm sure everyone doesn't have a lot of funds to be dumping on products, but I'll post what I've done for my recomp and what I'll be taking as a continuous, long term stack.
 
bioman

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"(Contrary to popular believe, post cycle sexual dysfunction is often a result of PCT drugs such as clomid or nolva, not low testosterone)"

Definitely agree here.


As for Nolva raising estrogen..it lowers estradiol but raises estrone...ie a more favorable estrogen ratio for cancer treatment et al.

The only concern I'd have about running Sustain over a SERM during PCT is the lack of strong estrogen receptor binding in the breast tissue. There may be some with Sustain but SERMs provide rock solid insurance during a time when your hormonal millieu is often very prone to creating or agonizing gyno. For those of us with existing gyno..we need that peace of mind.

Other than that, I'd love to run Sustain with a SERM and well after the PCT period to see what it can do.
 
Eric Potratz

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"(Contrary to popular believe, post cycle sexual dysfunction is often a result of post cycle therapy drugs such as clomid or nolva, not low testosterone)"

Definitely agree here.


As for Nolva raising estrogen..it lowers estradiol but raises estrone...ie a more favorable estrogen ratio for cancer treatment et al.

The only concern I'd have about running Sustain over a SERM during PCT is the lack of strong estrogen receptor binding in the breast tissue. There may be some with Sustain but SERMs provide rock solid insurance during a time when your hormonal millieu is often very prone to creating or agonizing gyno. For those of us with existing gyno..we need that peace of mind.

Other than that, I'd love to run Sustain with a SERM and well after the PCT period to see what it can do.


Yes good point bioman.

But for those who aren’t susceptible to gyno, I try to keep them as far away from nolva or clomid as possible… just because of the whole progestin receptor up-regulation issue and ultimate increased sensitivity to getting gyno in the future if you ever decide to run a progestin like Deca or Tren… or perhaps any othe progestin derived pro-hormones of the day.

-Pp
 
bioman

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I don't even use Nolva any more if I can avoid it. I feel blah on it and my skin starts to get "eaten up" so I can tell it's not the safest thing ever.

Toremifene on the other hand is like night and day. It works fast and there's zero sides except for lowering of libido while on...but all serms are going to have that potential.

Anywho, look forward to trying Sustain at some point. Go bug Sam at NP..there's growing interest from members wanting them to carry your products.
 

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Hey Force of Green, i did a 24 hour urine test for Cortisol, and i was in normal range, but in the upper normal range, so id like to lower it.


Should i use X-Lean or Retain 2?


Retain 2 seems like it offers everything X-Lean does plus more no?


Thanks.
 
Force of Green

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Hey Force of Green, i did a 24 hour urine test for Cortisol, and i was in normal range, but in the upper normal range, so id like to lower it.


Should i use X-Lean or Retain 2?


Retain 2 seems like it offers everything X-Lean does plus more no?


Thanks.
To straighten out hormonal imbalances like that, stick with adaptogens. You can get Relora online at almost any site, except Nutraplanet. Source Naturals offers Relora for a good price and you can find it all over the web or at some health food stores.

Also, check into Sensoril. It's a patented, potent, and certified extract of Ashwaganda and it's amazing stuff. Add schizandra to the mix (also available by source naturals) and you'll feel like a new man after about 3-4 weeks.

Try this ultra effective, affordable protocol

1. Relora 1000 mg per day (250mg morning, 250mg afternoon, 500mg before bed)
2. Sensoril (Life Extensions optimized ashwaganda extract is very good and cheap!) 2 caps morning, 2 caps evening with meals
3. Source Naturals schizandra: 1 cap morning, 1 cap evening
4. *** Want some amazing anti-oxidant properties and a little absorption aid for your stack? Get Super Curcumin extract by Life Extension. Offers 500mg of curcumin and 5mg bioperine.

You'll have a killer stack on your hands that you can use ALL year round. You'll love it!
 
Travis

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Bump for others....even though we got a little OT later in the thread.
 
Evilmonkey

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The only concern I'd have about running Sustain over a SERM during PCT is the lack of strong estrogen receptor binding in the breast tissue. There may be some with Sustain but SERMs provide rock solid insurance during a time when your hormonal millieu is often very prone to creating or agonizing gyno.

Other than that, I'd love to run Sustain with a SERM and well after the PCT period to see what it can do.
I'm still learning on this subject so please bare with me...

I get the feeling that most of the board despises ATD's... but wouldnt running a low dose in the begining of a PCT program be benificial... Dont they raise test levels and take care of the abundance of estro? Dosing for a week or two, tapering down while Sustain starts to ramp up.

Just a thought
 
Ronnie

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To straighten out hormonal imbalances like that, stick with adaptogens. You can get Relora online at almost any site, except Nutraplanet. Source Naturals offers Relora for a good price and you can find it all over the web or at some health food stores.

Also, check into Sensoril. It's a patented, potent, and certified extract of Ashwaganda and it's amazing stuff. Add schizandra to the mix (also available by source naturals) and you'll feel like a new man after about 3-4 weeks.

Try this ultra effective, affordable protocol

1. Relora 1000 mg per day (250mg morning, 250mg afternoon, 500mg before bed)
2. Sensoril (Life Extensions optimized ashwaganda extract is very good and cheap!) 2 caps morning, 2 caps evening with meals
3. Source Naturals schizandra: 1 cap morning, 1 cap evening
4. *** Want some amazing anti-oxidant properties and a little absorption aid for your stack? Get Super Curcumin extract by Life Extension. Offers 500mg of curcumin and 5mg bioperine.

You'll have a killer stack on your hands that you can use ALL year round. You'll love it!
http://store.anabolicminds.com/product/1517/relora.html
 
Force of Green

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A couple days after I posted that, Nutraplanet started carrying NOW Relora. NOW is definitely a good brand Relora and the dosage is awesome as well. The recommended dose is 250mg, 3 times per day, however, NOW Relora is 300mg per cap. Considering that most of us are bigger guys, the 300mg, 3x per day will no doubt be perfect. You can take UP to, BUT NO MORE, than 1500mg per day, however, going above that will cause drowsiness and sedation. Don't exceed the recommended dose.
 
Ronnie

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I'm going to use your doseage of relora along with the new Napalm! I can't wait!!!
 
Force of Green

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I'm going to use your doseage of relora along with the new Napalm! I can't wait!!!
Tight man. I'm curious about this Napalm, so keep us updated PLEASE. ;)
 
BigAsian

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Force of Green, id be interested to hear your long term supplement plan if you dont mind.


Can you give me the details on how much you took, for how long, and did you build up the dose,ect?


Thanks.
I would also like to see your long term supplement plan..
 
Force of Green

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I would also like to see your long term supplement plan..
Sweet. I will post exactly what it is and why I chose what I did for it and whatnot. I'm going to run some errands, but will post it in a couple hours. :thumbsup:
 
Force of Green

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This is my long term stack, verbatim... I got back to my computer VERY late, but I did say I'd list it... for those who are interested, here it is... for those who aren't, ok ;)

MVP-365 Multi-vitamin: Why? It's the best ratio of essential vitamins in their most bioavailable forms. It has what you need in the right amounts and doesn't have what you don't need. The leftover room in the capsuls has synergistic anti-oxidants and adaptogens. You can't beat the price either.

ZMK- Krebs cycle intermediate minerals for optimum growth, recovery and hormone maximization. Promotes deep, restorative sleep. Sleep is more important than training. The price is also 'right'.

Tea-3 - A blend of 3 extremely potent teas into one capsule. Green tea (we all know what the benefits are), oolong tea (amazing metabolic enhancer and offers different varieties of polyphenols and catechins not found in GT, and yerba mate.

Super Curcumin - 800 mg of curcumin (95% extract) with 5 mg of bioperine. The green tea and oolong teas work complimentary with the curcumin and the bioperine increases the ECGC absorption of the green and oolong teas

Green Tea Polyphenol and Curcumin Inversely Regulate Human Involucrin Promoter Activity via Opposing Effects on CCAAT/Enhancer-binding Protein Function
Optimized Carnitine - Contains 3 of the best forms of L-Carnitine available. This product is by Life Extension. Instead of me wording it, I'll cut and paste from the description, which is right on point.

Diminished cellular energy production is an inevitable consequence of aging. As adults mature, the cellular power plants known as the mitochondria become dysfunctional. The resulting slowdown in energy production manifests in numerous health problems.

Nutritional researchers have discovered that the amino acid carnitine promotes the burning of fat for fuel in the mitochondria, thus promoting youthful levels of cellular energy production.* Researchers have now identified several optimized, next-generation forms of carnitine that not only help boost cellular energy production, but also may confer targeted benefits for the brain, heart, muscles, and central nervous system.

Optimized Carnitine with GlycoCarn™ combines these advanced forms of carnitine -- acetyl-L-carnitine, propionyl-L-carnitine, and acetyl-L-carnitine arginate -- in a single formula that provides balanced, broad-spectrum support for cellular energy production throughout the body.

Acetyl-L-carnitine readily crosses the blood-brain barrier to combat oxidative stress and promote energy production in critical brain and central nervous system tissues.1 Acetyl-L-carnitine also supports healthy brain function by stimulating the release of acetylcholine and dopamine, two neurotransmitters that play vital roles in brain health and communication.*

Acetyl-L-carnitine arginate has an added molecule of arginine that enables it to augment the effects of acetyl-L-carnitine, promoting the growth of neurites that facilitate communication among nerve cells in the brain.2

GlycoCarn™ is a patented form of proprionyl-L-carnitine that quickly penetrates into heart, endothelial and muscle cells, with effects that range from protecting the heart muscle to combating muscle fatigue by increasing muscle energy stores of glycogen.3
My adaptogen stack is inexpensive and VERY effective. To hell with all these anti-cortisol supps that work for a while until you cycle off of them, these supps will keep your stress at bay AND keep you ripped (YES ripped) and leaner all year long.

Relora - So many studies on this proving it's efficacy. It works awesome for me at 750mg per day, but the max dose (NEVER exceed this) is 1500mg per day and I don't have a worry in the world (almost). I pretty much laugh everything off.

Sensoril - This is a patented ashwaganda extract assuring mega potency. The Relora & Sensoril combo is unparallelled.

Schizandra berry extract - Keeps the adrenals fresh at all times, reduces stress as well, enhances skin tone, anti-oxidant properties are great as well... Promotes a longer life... tons more.

Vinpocetine - I just take 20mg with breakfast. It's VERY cheap and very effective. Some notice it right away, but some notice it's cumulative effects after a couple weeks. It has a ton of research on it. It's a proven vasodialator that acts on blood vessels in the brain. I used to have to always check my printed out directions when I went to a place I'd never been... Now I don't even realize it, but I can remember about a page of directions without glancing at the map.


This adaptogen blend is amazing.

Post Cycle Support - Just ordered some. I will be triple dosing it... LOL... so I get the 1,800mg of transresveratrol. The testosterone increases will be outstanding and there's no need to cycle off of it. I'm also mostly taking it for it's anti-aging effects.

Carnage - So much research on beta-alanine. It's also the cheapest capped form of this amazing compound. beta-alanine is amazing for anyone doing any kind of training or competition. It has other benefits aside from raising carnosine levels in muscle as well.

Poseidon - How important is hydration?

Drive - I take it because it offers such a wide array of benefits and it doesn't need to be cycled. It's also non-stimulant. The naringin may enhance the caffeine that's in the Tea-3, but that's not bad at all IMO. Drive enhances mood, has anti-oxidant properties, raises testosterone, and exterts AI and SERM activity. Nice stuff. I can attest and so can anyone who has taken it.

That's pretty much it. I drink Goji juice when I get my hands on it and whatnot... oh... crap... OMEGA-3s... I buy it in bulk and drink about 20 grams of it per day.

My meals are all sensible and colorful, my sleep is a solid 7-8 hours, my stress is unbelievably managed (even now I'm going through a ROUGH time), and I drink a gallon or more of water per day.... This is my stack verbatim, I hope yall enjoy reading it.
 
Travis

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What do you dose the Ashwagandha at? I've read it decreases sensitivity of dopamine receptors. Which would make me think this is not something you would want to use ON cycle or even in PCT b/c of potential prolactin issues.

I honestly dont know enough about it though.
 
Force of Green

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What do you dose the Ashwagandha at? I've read it decreases sensitivity of dopamine receptors. Which would make me think this is not something you would want to use ON cycle or even in post cycle therapy b/c of potential prolactin issues.

I honestly dont know enough about it though.
Good point. It regulates (normalizes) dopamine receptor activity, but actually increase dopamine and acetylcholine in the brain. It would be perfect on or off cycle.

Take it in a box,
or with a fox.
Dose it with a friendly mouse,
dose it in your house.
You can keep it under your hat,
you can even give it to your cat!

Too many benefits from this herb to mention.

Upregulating the CNS, supporting the thyroid, decreasing cortisol, ashwaganda may also possess androgenic properties, it DIRECTLY increases libido and sexual performance, increases activity of ingested stimulants (this has been tested with amphetamines), it has been proven to enhance stamina, it is an anti-inflamatory, it is an anti-oxidant, it exerts anti-tumor effects, it increases immune function, it is a powerful nootropic agent.... the list goes on...

I take about 1 gram of Sensoril per day.
 
Force of Green

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Something too about schizandra:

The schizandra herb is highly prized by Chinese women as a sexual enhancer and youth tonic.

Schizandra is believed to preserve beauty and to be a mild sedative.

Schizandra is also reputed to be tonic for men.

Until recently coveted by the wealthy, and a favorite among the Chinese emperors, Schizandra is also considered an adaptogen and, similar to ginseng, it is believed to increase stamina and fight against fatigue.

Schizandra (Schizandra chinensis) of the family Schizandraceae is a creeping vine with small red berries that is native to Northern China.

In ancient China, Schizandra was used as a staple food for hunting and gathering tribes.

As a traditional medicinal herb, Schizandra, called Wu-wei-tzu in China, has been used as an astringent for a treatment for dry cough, asthma, night sweats, nocturnal seminal emissions and chronic diarrhea.

It is also used as a tonic for the treatment of chronic fatigue.

During the early 1980's Chinese doctors began researching Schizandra, based on its potential for liver-protective effects and the nature of its active constituents

Schizandra is now a recognized "adaptogen," capable of increasing the body's natural resistance.

Benefits of Schizandra

* In Asia, the schizandra adaptogenic property is said to stimulate immune defenses

* balance body function, normalize body systems

* help surgery recovery

* protect against radiation

* optimize energy in times of stress

* increase stamina

* protect against motion sickness

* normalize blood sugar, blood pressure, and high cholesterol

* shield against infection

* improve the health of the adrenals

* energize RNA-DNA molecules to rebuild cells and produce energy comparable to that of a young athlete

* Western herbalists commonly recommend Schizandra for the lungs, liver and kidneys, and to help with depression due to adrenergic exhaustion.

* In Russia, Schizandra is used to treat eye fatigue and increase acuity.

Studies conducted on Schizandra effects have noted that it has a stimulating effect in low doses, but this effect disappeared with larger doses.

The compounds thought responsible for the liver-protective effects of Schizandra are lignans composed of two phenylpropanoid.

More than 30 of these have been isolated in Schizandra and some 22 of which were tested in 1984 by the Japanese scientist H. Hikino for their ability to reduce the cytotoxic effects of carbon tetrachloride and galactosamine on cultured rat liver cells.
 
JoHNnyNuTZ

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BUMP from the dead. Curious in any updates opinions!!!
 

myleslup

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Just my 2 cents...
Over summer I used iforce reversatrol v2 as a pct for a 5 week halodrol/superdrol cycle. I feel like i recovered better and faster with reversatrol than with a regular serm... And I wouldn't hesitate to use it again.
 

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