Snagency Primordially shifts to V2.0, 16-week bodybuilding prep with Andro Series

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  1. Diamond Member
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    A lot of things skewing the landscape there, David..

    Off the top, I eat fresh cut meat, not frozen prepackaged burgers..that's where the sodium is coming into play.
    Also - there is wide disparity between fat amounts in fresh cut meats..all depends on the processing method, and where you are purchasing your meat from.

    For instance (and let's keep the butcher's shop out of it, to keep things simple):
    the turkey i am using currently is Jennie-O, 93% lean. Per 4oz, looks like this.
    Cals 170
    Fat 8g
    Sat Fat 2.5g
    Cho 80mg
    Sodium 80mg
    Protein 21g

    Conversely, the 96% lean beef I speak of, purchased at Meijer (I also use Laura's Lean), looks like this per 4oz.
    Cals 130
    Fat 4g
    Sat Fat 1.5g
    Cho 65mg
    Sodium 50mg
    Protein 24g

    So you see, a lot more than meets the eye here.
    While I enjoy turkey meat, I would not say that lb for lb, it is leaner than beef, no..

    You can, however, make that statement in relation to ground turkey breast.
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    All valid points. My profession is in engineering so all those variables do not escape me.
    I presently do not invests the time, dollars or effort that you are in the process of doing.

    For me, using those patties, serving/serving, there is a great deal more protein and a lot less fat in the turkey burger.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    All valid points. My profession is in engineering so all those variables do not escape me.
    I presently do not invests the time, dollars or effort that you are in the process of doing.

    For me, using those patties, serving/serving, there is a great deal more protein and a lot less fat in the turkey burger.
    LOL on the boldened..
    And to be sure, those points you make are absolutely correct. I am incredibly anal about my diet, and for a reason right now (not just my regular anality, lulz)..and the cost, yessss - that extra lean beef runs ~$6/lb regular price (almost $7/lb for the Laura's at Kroger), so - I look for the sales and stock up when I can.

    Generally speaking, and for the health-conscious person such as yourself, I do agree that turkey is a leaner cut of meat than beef, and provides superior protein amount..we certainly agree.
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    The pics..shifts in the diet and off day low intake yesterday have me a lil flat today.
    Should correct itself by end of week.
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    and a random shot of this meal..no chicken breast on hand, so we substitute some tuna (the Starkist Select Solid Light is actually pretty damn tasty, good change of pace) and egg whites, and throw in couple slices smoked turkey deli meat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    The pics..shifts in the diet and off day low intake yesterday have me a lil flat today.
    Should correct itself by end of week.
    Arms are looking really good in the front double bi though...
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Just saw the before and after you posted. Awesome work.
    Just inject.
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    Thanks guys.
    I think hardening wek will go well..gonna lose a few lbs tho. I want to tighten this skin up something fierce - this lil fold under my chest is bothering me, never had that before in my life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    Thanks guys.
    I think hardening wek will go well..gonna lose a few lbs tho. I want to tighten this skin up something fierce - this lil fold under my chest is bothering me, never had that before in my life.
    That is a small thing, I have some pretty loose skin that I can never tighten, I can pose to make it less noticable but that's about it...
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Sure, the skin only has so much elasticity life in it.
    I dint get that out of shape or fat enough to warrant this tho..(not inferring you did DW, just being specific to my own situation)
    I know I lost a lot of chest size, but skin should tighten up, just gonna take longer than what I anticipated.
    It WILL be eliminated! That's all there is to it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    Sure, the skin only has so much elasticity life in it.
    I dint get that out of shape or fat enough to warrant this tho..(not inferring you did DW, just being specific to my own situation)
    I know I lost a lot of chest size, but skin should tighten up, just gonna take longer than what I anticipated.
    It WILL be eliminated! That's all there is to it.
    lol yah but I did, remember I was 305 at one time surgery is probably my only option, that's another factor in me not competing any more, If I can't get past the loose skin I can't see the ability to make improvements would be very highly probable. Doesn't mean I will stop trying to improve but just being realistic.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    I do remember your past transgressions, brother.
    Damn..can't imagine. Most I ever been was ~215ish, and I felt like a slug.
    Big like house, but slow and immobile like tow truck.

    I have a vision in mind of the physique I want to attain here - and also the reality of what I will be attaining.
    Difference being, due to the muscle mass I have lost over this past 1/2 yr+, I will not carry as much mass/development as I would like. I am not a mass monster anyway, but the development that I prided myself on for so long has taken a step or three back..
    So, that leaves me with attaining the sub 3%bf, which is entirely attainable (not short-changing the difficulty of it here, as remember - I have never accomplished it before!)

    Shredded to the gills, but lacking a smidge in development and mass, I will try to hold on to as much muscle as possible thruout the process..
    With these fine products in play, my training patterns and sheer determination - I'm hopeful it will look good at the end.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    I do remember your past transgressions, brother.
    Damn..can't imagine. Most I ever been was ~215ish, and I felt like a slug.
    Big like house, but slow and immobile like tow truck.

    I have a vision in mind of the physique I want to attain here - and also the reality of what I will be attaining.
    Difference being, due to the muscle mass I have lost over this past 1/2 yr+, I will not carry as much mass/development as I would like. I am not a mass monster anyway, but the development that I prided myself on for so long has taken a step or three back..
    So, that leaves me with attaining the sub 3%bf, which is entirely attainable (not short-changing the difficulty of it here, as remember - I have never accomplished it before!)

    Shredded to the gills, but lacking a smidge in development and mass, I will try to hold on to as much muscle as possible thruout the process..
    With these fine products in play, my training patterns and sheer determination - I'm hopeful it will look good at the end.
    If they work like I think they will you actually be able to gain till about 5% but it is hard to say what will happen between 5 and 3... I still think you won't lose much if any though. You are such a diet technician I wonder if you may not find a way to keep it all...
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    diet technician.. love it!

    I gotta stop taking these cold, depleted weekly pics in my posing trunks..
    if nothing else, to make myself feel better about where I'm at.

    Pic this morning, after a back/arms session.
    Tennis on tap for this afternoon, another split day..diggin it.
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    Looking like a beast Snags. Keep it up getting leaner and staying the same weight in prep is a VERY nice thing...
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    diet technician.. love it!

    I gotta stop taking these cold, depleted weekly pics in my posing trunks..
    if nothing else, to make myself feel better about where I'm at.

    Pic this morning, after a back/arms session.
    Tennis on tap for this afternoon, another split day..diggin it.
    A lot more volume there...
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Looking like a beast Snags. Keep it up getting leaner and staying the same weight in prep is a VERY nice thing...
    indeed..love it!
    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    A lot more volume there...
    like hooking me up to an air compressor..
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    indeed..love it!

    like hooking me up to an air compressor..
    Almost seems ... man you manage your nutrition so well, unfortunately your methods work well for your body type. I use a lot of the same foods though. I know I should use more pics to help me out but I can't get the right lighting and the wife takes crap pics...
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    Speaking of food..
    after recalculating & fine-tuning the macros, here's where I sit for this week:
    ~2900cals, 205g c/350g p/75g f

    That's regular daily fare. I figure I'll run this straight thru for week, no carb-up days or altering the caloric load..will see where I sit then.

    PostWO shake (in addition to regular daily fare) remains:
    ~440cals, 75g c/30g p/1.5g f
    (40g dextrose + 35g brown rice syrup + 30g isolate)

    As I don't have many non-training days, you can figure my total cals at ~3350 daily.

    Awoke this morning much tighter - of course, I always do after tennis days..
    weight at 186 upon rising.

    Very happy with dietary set-up now, think I have a good framework going forward, to reach my goals.
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    Thumbs up


    oooooo..will touch on today's training a bit, cuz it was really special.
    blasted da wheelz something fierce! was very pleased, considering i was a tad bit sore from playing tennis in the wind yesterday (more quick movement/shifts than usual), and a smidgen short on energy, due to the caloric load reduction..
    so, i found myself having 2 Ignite myself a bit this morning (roll with me on the play on product name fellas ), bumping up to 3/4 scoop, and just had a fantastic session.

    went like this:
    -ATG squats 5x8/8/8/7/6
    -DB lunges 3x10/10/8
    -DB Romanian deads 4x12/10/8/8
    -lying leg curls 4x12/12/10/8
    -DB one-legged calf raise 5x15/15/15/12/12

    5min light glider action warm-up & cool-down
    1min45sec rests thruout till curls/calves, then 1min rests for those

    spectacular! i can't walk!
    (gotta mow the yard later, will be good stretching, ha)
    Last edited by snagencyV2.0; 04-24-2012 at 12:13 PM. Reason: ooops, missed a set of squat reps in there. :p
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    Nice, mowing after a leg workout. Gotta love it. Hope it isself propelled so you can just be pulled along ambling behind it mumbling something about the protein content of your next meal...
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    Ahhh! I love some romanian db deads. Too bad my gym tops out at 120lb db's, still a great workout
    Edit: just looked back at the latest pic. You, sir, are an inspiration!
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    The Ignite should get you through for sure... I get to have some in about an hour or so.... then to the gym to destroy some shyte... I love this fuggin stuff
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Nice, mowing after a leg workout. Gotta love it. Hope it isself propelled so you can just be pulled along ambling behind it mumbling something about the protein content of your next meal...
    lulz..nah, self-propelled is for sissies.
    i do things the old-fashioned way.
    (well, not that old-fashioned -- it is a gas push mower and not one of the old non-motorized blade-spinners i used as a kid)
    takes me an hour & a half usually at leisurely pace to mow my yard; if i'm making good time, about hour & 15 min..today, got it done in hour & ten.
    Quote Originally Posted by sae2110 View Post
    Ahhh! I love some romanian db deads. Too bad my gym tops out at 120lb db's, still a great workout
    Edit: just looked back at the latest pic. You, sir, are an inspiration!
    hell yes, 120's are a great workout..you kidding?
    and - if i inspire, then i am honored my friend.

    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    The Ignite should get you through for sure... I get to have some in about an hour or so.... then to the gym to destroy some shyte... I love this fuggin stuff
    yep, hit me good today for sure.
    has hit me righteous every time i've taken it man..today i just needed that extra boost a lil more than usual.
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    looking good!
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    Quote Originally Posted by sae2110 View Post
    Ahhh! I love some romanian db deads. Too bad my gym tops out at 120lb db's, still a great workout
    Edit: just looked back at the latest pic. You, sir, are an inspiration!
    My gym tops out at 95. And by 95 I mean there is one, and the other has been missing for about a year. Consider yourself lucky!
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    My gym tops out at 95. And by 95 I mean there is one, and the other has been missing for about a year. Consider yourself lucky!

    I'm training a guy right now at the gym in his apartment complex..DB's only go up to 75s..no squat rack..half the machines are broken..
    (they do have a nice sled tho, something i don't even have in my own gym at home)

    [sigh]

    good thing I'm not a machine-type guy. half my effort is teaching him to utilize what's available to him, and focusing on other things (form/mind-muscle connection/shorter rest periods/rep tempo/explosiveness) in order to make his strength gains, cuz there's only so much weight we can work with.

    lack of weights is not an excuse or barrier in making progress, in the art of bodybuilding and bodyshaping.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    I'm training a guy right now at the gym in his apartment complex..DB's only go up to 75s..no squat rack..half the machines are broken..
    (they do have a nice sled tho, something i don't even have in my own gym at home)

    [sigh]

    good thing I'm not a machine-type guy. half my effort is teaching him to utilize what's available to him, and focusing on other things (form/mind-muscle connection/shorter rest periods/rep tempo/explosiveness) in order to make his strength gains, cuz there's only so much weight we can work with.

    lack of weights is not an excuse or barrier in making progress, in the art of bodybuilding and bodyshaping.
    Well said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    (they do have a nice sled tho, something i don't even have in my own gym at home)
    Such an odd thing to have in a gym that is not huge on the upkeep. Makes me jealous though!
    Just inject.
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    A note on hardening week:
    Not going as planned..androgens have definitely affected my metabolism, and AMv3 did not like the sudden large decrease in calories.
    After holding true to plans thru middle of day yesterday, decided I needed me some dirty macros. So, had 2 MetRX Big 100 Colossal bars (Sweet & Salty, love those things) and a box of Risotto, as well as my planned splurge of 1.3lbs of kabobs (12oz sirloin, rest in veggies) for dinner. I then followed with 5oz deli meat and a salad for my last meal, instead of my usual protein shake.
    This is also the first prep where I have utilized ANY protein shakes - before, I have always used whole foods the entire time. Basing this prep around steroids for the first time, I made a concession here to the need for increased caloric intake, and realized there was just no way I was going to be able to make all the food I needed to, in whole-food form.
    (for comparison - my other preps always had me below 2500cals for the majority of time, and even down below 2000 at some points)
    So..the learning experience continues..I'll get things figured out yet!

    Off day yesterday (day #5 of prep now, in 5th week), looking forward to chastizing the chesticles and subjogating the shoulders this morning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    A note on hardening week:
    Not going as planned..androgens have definitely affected my metabolism, and AMv3 did not like the sudden large decrease in calories.
    After holding true to plans thru middle of day yesterday, decided I needed me some dirty macros. So, had 2 MetRX Big 100 Colossal bars (Sweet & Salty, love those things) and a box of Risotto, as well as my planned splurge of 1.3lbs of kabobs (12oz sirloin, rest in veggies) for dinner. I then followed with 5oz deli meat and a salad for my last meal, instead of my usual protein shake.
    This is also the first prep where I have utilized ANY protein shakes - before, I have always used whole foods the entire time. Basing this prep around steroids for the first time, I made a concession here to the need for increased caloric intake, and realized there was just no way I was going to be able to make all the food I needed to, in whole-food form.
    (for comparison - my other preps always had me below 2500cals for the majority of time, and even down below 2000 at some points)
    So..the learning experience continues..I'll get things figured out yet!

    Off day yesterday (day #5 of prep now, in 5th week), looking forward to chastizing the chesticles and subjogating the shoulders this morning.
    I was going to say something but thought you were already getting that advice. When I start my 550xd run I will increase calories and still be trimming down quite a bit. Increased calories get burned along with greater protein synthesis... you should be able to actually gain weight while you lose significant fat in some situations.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Nice adjustment! What was the result you wake up fuller?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    I was going to say something but thought you were already getting that advice. When I start my 550xd run I will increase calories and still be trimming down quite a bit. Increased calories get burned along with greater protein synthesis... you should be able to actually gain weight while you lose significant fat in some situations.
    sure - I understand the concept..this was just an experiemental thing, for my own edification.

    as for advice - no, i am designing my diet on my own. i may bounce some ideas off Matt here & there, and he does give me his .02 when asked for, but you know me DW - i'm a lil hard-headed and have to figure things out for myself, most of the time.

    it's how i've gotten to where i'm at, and it defines me as a person.
    if i screw it up, i have no one to blame but myself. that's just how i learn.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Nice adjustment! What was the result you wake up fuller?
    fuller - yes..dint quite suck up all the nutrients where i wanted tho, abdomen a lil bloated this morning, skin not as tight as i'd like.
    adjustments will be made going forward, i should be all right in a day or two.
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    Could have been the extra salt in the sweet and salty bars combined with that pasta it is a recipe for a little water sub -q.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Could have been the extra salt in the sweet and salty bars combined with that pasta it is a recipe for a little water sub -q.
    definitely - nice point.
    one thing I did discuss with Matt - he is a big fan of utilizing salt thruout prep..makes lower carbs & final weeks of process much easier.
    so, with that in mind, I have upped my salt intake, and the deli meats I been eating here recently (altho good macros for my purposes) do of course contain a tremendous amount of sodium, like ~350mg per 2oz serving, and I'm eating multiple servings..also, I've always salted my cooked eggs and hard-boiled egg whites generously, sweet potatoes and black beans as well..the protein powders I'm using have fair amounts of sodium included..

    but yeah - sodium intake was much higher than usual yesterday..think you nailed the "look" I have today to a T.
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    I am a firm believer that unless you have problems with blood pressure that controlling your insulin does not correct there is no real reason to limit sodium intake so long as you are not using so much that you are throwing your electrolytes completely out of balance.

    However if I take in much over 200-250 grams of carbs in a day while eating some things with more salt than normal I smooth out quickly. Tortilla Chips at a restaraunt is probably one of the times I see that the most. I can get a little out of hand with them if I am not careful even when it is a free day.
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    Good stuff Kleen..
    and - further confirmation that your diagnosis is a strong one:
    weight today was 190.8(!!!) upon rising, a bigger jump than usual.
    also, joints were tighter and stiffer than usual..no doubt, I'm holding more water than usual.

    All that said - the workout was an absolutely incredible session! And the pump - my gawd..
    couple pics, first one showing my sweat (thru the UnderArmour and the sweatshirt), in a bit cooler environment this morning..and a couple showing off my pumped-ness.

    This will have to do for progress pics for the week, as I'm dropping back to every-other-Saturday full-body shots now.
    (you guys will get bored seeing me every week, anyway - we don't want that>>>>)
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    Holy Thickness Batman! Bane is on the loose again! Looking awesome!
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    hard to believe i was almost ~5lbs lighter and flat as hell yesterday morning - hence the decision to do something drastic.
    hardening week is over..scrap that idea at this stage of the game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Holy Thickness Batman! Bane is on the loose again! Looking awesome!
    Yep pretty hard too...
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