BurghHardcore
Well-known member
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Hello All,
I will post these questions here b/c they are being ignored on PP's forum. Another memeber on the forum posted some interesting statements/questions and they have not been answered yet. They are below, we would all much appreciate some sort of reply to these:
"I think your concern could be valid. 5-DHEA converts to estrogen as well as testosterone. In fact it has two chances to convert to estrogen, both from Androstenedione to estrone and from testosterone to Estradiol.
The old Dermacrine incorporated 7,8 benzoflavone and chrysin which are mild aromatase inhibitors which, to a certain extent, limited this conversion. There seems to be no aromatase inhibitors in the new formula though.
Furthermore 5-Dhea seems to have some affinity for the estrogen receptor without conversion to estrogen.
I should mention though that 7-Dhea doesnt convert to estrogen so you can ignore this part for the purposes of worrying about estrogen side effects.
According to the supplement facts there is 153mg of 5-Dhea. No aromatase inhibitors, and, if the write up is accurate a better delivery method.
In summary this seems to add together to give a potential for estrogenic sides. I havent seen the quote from Eric about the 72mg per day max for 5-Dhea but I will take your word for it. If this is the case, then you are getting double this dose advised as "good" by Eric, with more entering your bloodstream and no protection from aromatisation.
I would think at the very least you would want to consider taking an Aromatase inhibitor with this but given 5-Dheas effects directly on the estrogen receptor this in itself may not be sufficient to stop the estrogenic side effects if you are prone to this.
That said, it would seem strange that this could be missed given the knowledge of the PP guys so perhaps there is something missing from the equation here?"
and this:
"I recall seeing a post about the old dermacrine topical in which Eric said "I wouldn’t go over 5 pumps a day or you risk getting too high of DHEA levels which would likely just give you anxiety, restlessness and maybe some estrogenic sides."
The amount of DHEA in 5 pumps of dermacrine was 72mg, and the LV was near the same IIRC. Androlean is the same form of DHEA, but with an enanthate ester, and its dosed over 200mg a day. Given the increased absorption and bio-availability, why shouldnt we expect to see an increased likelihood of those sides?"
Could these concerns please be addressed? I may be a complete idiot and missed something somewhere in the writeups, but I didn't see a response to these anywhere.
The closest I've seen to a response, and not in direct response to these issues, has been "estrogenic sides or issues should not be a concern with AL". That doesn't quite get the job done for me, and obviously others. Would I also need an AI while taking this?
I will post these questions here b/c they are being ignored on PP's forum. Another memeber on the forum posted some interesting statements/questions and they have not been answered yet. They are below, we would all much appreciate some sort of reply to these:
"I think your concern could be valid. 5-DHEA converts to estrogen as well as testosterone. In fact it has two chances to convert to estrogen, both from Androstenedione to estrone and from testosterone to Estradiol.
The old Dermacrine incorporated 7,8 benzoflavone and chrysin which are mild aromatase inhibitors which, to a certain extent, limited this conversion. There seems to be no aromatase inhibitors in the new formula though.
Furthermore 5-Dhea seems to have some affinity for the estrogen receptor without conversion to estrogen.
I should mention though that 7-Dhea doesnt convert to estrogen so you can ignore this part for the purposes of worrying about estrogen side effects.
According to the supplement facts there is 153mg of 5-Dhea. No aromatase inhibitors, and, if the write up is accurate a better delivery method.
In summary this seems to add together to give a potential for estrogenic sides. I havent seen the quote from Eric about the 72mg per day max for 5-Dhea but I will take your word for it. If this is the case, then you are getting double this dose advised as "good" by Eric, with more entering your bloodstream and no protection from aromatisation.
I would think at the very least you would want to consider taking an Aromatase inhibitor with this but given 5-Dheas effects directly on the estrogen receptor this in itself may not be sufficient to stop the estrogenic side effects if you are prone to this.
That said, it would seem strange that this could be missed given the knowledge of the PP guys so perhaps there is something missing from the equation here?"
and this:
"I recall seeing a post about the old dermacrine topical in which Eric said "I wouldn’t go over 5 pumps a day or you risk getting too high of DHEA levels which would likely just give you anxiety, restlessness and maybe some estrogenic sides."
The amount of DHEA in 5 pumps of dermacrine was 72mg, and the LV was near the same IIRC. Androlean is the same form of DHEA, but with an enanthate ester, and its dosed over 200mg a day. Given the increased absorption and bio-availability, why shouldnt we expect to see an increased likelihood of those sides?"
Could these concerns please be addressed? I may be a complete idiot and missed something somewhere in the writeups, but I didn't see a response to these anywhere.
The closest I've seen to a response, and not in direct response to these issues, has been "estrogenic sides or issues should not be a concern with AL". That doesn't quite get the job done for me, and obviously others. Would I also need an AI while taking this?
