Best PP hormonal product stacked with..

[cbr1000rr]

Looking to support PP by picking up some of the hormonal stuff. I started epi on monday and would like to add in something else. I haven't ran anything in about 2 years and i'm ready to go balls to the wall. What product would be best to stack with epistane? Thanks in advance.

P.S. I plan to run epi at 20/30/40/40. If you recommend a product, please provide a good dosing scheme given what im currently running

 

[Trauma1]

Looking to support PP by picking up some of the hormonal stuff. I started epi on monday and would like to add in something else. I haven't ran anything in about 2 years and i'm ready to go balls to the wall. What product would be best to stack with epistane? Thanks in advance.

P.S. I plan to run epi at 20/30/40/40. If you recommend a product, please provide a good dosing scheme given what im currently running

Take a look at our Dermacrine Muscle Stack. It will stack very well with the Epi, and this stack also contains the products for your PCT. You can't beat the price right now either with 30% that stack!

Thank you for the support!



-John

 

[Rosie Chee]

Looking to support PP by picking up some of the hormonal stuff. I started epi on monday and would like to add in something else. I haven't ran anything in about 2 years and i'm ready to go balls to the wall. What product would be best to stack with epistane? Thanks in advance.

P.S. I plan to run epi at 20/30/40/40. If you recommend a product, please provide a good dosing scheme given what im currently running

What goal are you trying to achieve with this cycle (knowing that allows us to make the best recommendation)?

 

[cbr1000rr]

looking for all out mass

 

[Rosie Chee]

looking for all out mass

Then I agree with John:

Take a look at our Dermacrine Muscle Stack. It will stack very well with the Epi, and this stack also contains the products for your PCT...

If you go with the Dermacrine Muscle Stack, attached (or you can read it on our website) is the dosing/timing for each product in the stack (dose/time Epi as planned).

Please note that if you use the ORAL Dermacrine Muscle Stack replace the 5 pumps of Dermacrine topical recommended with 4-5ml of Dermacrine Liqua-Vade in the dosing instructions attached.

~Rosie~
The Primordial Woman

 

[cbr1000rr]

curious as to why you recommend dermacrine over 1-t and turinabol?

 

[HereToStudy]

curious as to why you recommend dermacrine over 1-t and turinabol?

Turinabol-LV is methylated. Wouldn't make a great combination with Epi, which is also methylated.

1-T would be effective as well, Personally for me I think the decision would be a toss up between 1-T and Dermacrine, but more people seem to prefer Dermacrine as opposed to to 1-T for stacking.

 

[Trauma1]

You can stack either the Dermacrine or 1-T with the Epi, but I think Dermacrine will be the better option. It will add support for libido and lethargy issues which can be a problem with many cycles.



-John

 

[cbr1000rr]

good info.. ive been searching for epi/derma epi/1-t stacks and not coming up with much. i like your rationale trauma

 

[Rosie Chee]

You can stack either the Dermacrine or 1-T with the Epi, but I think Dermacrine will be the better option. It will add support for libido and lethargy issues which can be a problem with many cycles.

^^^John pretty much covered it

 

[cbr1000rr]

im wondering in terms of shutdown how much more derma or 1-t will contribute. im thinking derma would be less. but either way ill be shutdown so it doesnt matter lol.

 

[Rodja]

im wondering in terms of shutdown how much more derma or 1-t will contribute. im thinking derma would be less. but either way ill be shutdown so it doesnt matter lol.

1T would be my recommendation, but make sure (and I cannot stress this enough) that you eat at least 3-4 servings of fruit. Keeping liver glycogen full is paramount to lowering the lethargy from strong compounds.

 

[hoopem6]

1T would be my recommendation, but make sure (and I cannot stress this enough) that you eat at least 3-4 servings of fruit. Keeping liver glycogen full is paramount to lowering the lethargy from strong compounds.

In addition, make sure you utilize Fish Oil and up your water intake. The combination of the two, 1-T and Epistane, will be pretty dry.

 

[Rodja]

In addition, make sure you utilize Fish Oil and up your water intake. The combination of the two, 1-T and Epistane, will be pretty dry.

Absolutely.

 

[cbr1000rr]

great advice. i have a bunch of cycle support and fish oil to take throughout. just ordered myself some 1-t. hopefully it'll get here soon so i can run it in with my epi. should be a killer bulk cycle

 

[Rodja]

great advice. i have a bunch of cycle support and fish oil to take throughout. just ordered myself some 1-t. hopefully it'll get here soon so i can run it in with my epi. should be a killer bulk cycle

Do you plan on logging it?

 

[Rosie Chee]

Do you plan on logging it?

If you do, that would be awesome, and definitely informative for others thinking of running this or similar cycles.

 

[cbr1000rr]

sure i dont see why not. i used to log ALOT over at bulknutrition but they shutdown the forums. still debating if i want to run sustain in my pct. kindof strapped for money at the moment so cant really order anything else at this point. so far i just have clomid (yea yea i should have everything before the cycle). but all i really need is a test booster/AI in addition to it.

 

[hoopem6]

sure i dont see why not. i used to log ALOT over at bulknutrition but they shutdown the forums. still debating if i want to run sustain in my pct. kindof strapped for money at the moment so cant really order anything else at this point. so far i just have clomid (yea yea i should have everything before the cycle). but all i really need is a test booster/AI in addition to it.

Sustain Alpha is well worth the investment, and would be an excellent post-cycle addition. However, since you already have Clomid on hand, PP's TCF-1 could serve as a less costly solution to help up-regulate testosterone production during your PCT.

 

[cbr1000rr]

i was thinking either that or something along the lines of testopro since ive heard nothing but great reviews. oh yea i also have toco-8

 

[Rosie Chee]

i was thinking either that or something along the lines of testopro since ive heard nothing but great reviews. oh yea i also have toco-8

If you get Sustain Alpha, I recommend using the transdermal version - for me it was more effective, and I prefer it over the liqua-vade version.

 

[hoopem6]

i was thinking either that or something along the lines of testopro since ive heard nothing but great reviews. oh yea i also have toco-8

Well, Sustain Alpha and Testopro are about the same price. If I had to choose one or the other, I'd personally go with Sustain Alpha; specifically for its estrogen control, libido support, and test boosting properties.

 

[Rosie Chee]

...I'd personally go with Sustain Alpha; specifically for its estrogen control, libido support, and test boosting properties.

^^^x2, but that's also because I've used it and loved it

 

[hoopem6]

^^^x2, but that's also because I've used it and loved it

Same here! :cheers:

 

[Rosie Chee]

Same here! :cheers:

It's almost time to use it again soon too, methinks :1244: Maybe to start 2011 off . . . :hmmm:

 

[cbr1000rr]

how should i run the 1-t? was thinking 5ml twice a day for 25 days?

 

[Rosie Chee]

how should i run the 1-t? was thinking 5ml twice a day for 25 days?

I take it you have the Liqua-Vade version of 1-T.

As recommended at 1-T Liqua-Vade product Facts:

As a dietary supplement take one 4-5mL dose, 1-2 times daily, 12 hours apart. Shake bottle well before each dose. Take with or without meals.

To assess tolerance, start with one 4-5mL dose daily, taken in the morning. Take up to two (2) 4-5mL servings per day after 5-7 days.

Consume within 6 hours if mixing with beverage.

~Rosie~
The Primordial Woman

 

[3clipseGT]

First off id like to say thank you for the support, its definately appreciated!!

Also like the others have said, keeping water up along with electrolytes and fruit in the diet will help a lot.

1T and Epi will definately be dry but your gonna be strong, add mass, and look like a beast.

As far as PCT goes Sustain Alpha is an awesome choice, but if you are planning to go with the clomid then TCF-1 is a great addition to it. If you try the TCF-1 try taking a dose pre workout, AWESOME time to take it to amp you up and get you into beast mode!!

 

[hoopem6]

If you try the TCF-1 try taking a dose pre workout, AWESOME time to take it to amp you up and get you into beast mode!!

Agreed! TCF-1 is definitely one of the fastest-acting supplements I've experienced to date.

 

[3clipseGT]

I also noticed on re-read that you have Toco-8, great staple product and an awesome product to be used during PCT as well!

 

[imjuschillin]

First off id like to say thank you for the support, its definately appreciated!!

Also like the others have said, keeping water up along with electrolytes and fruit in the diet will help a lot.

1T and Epi will definately be dry but your gonna be strong, add mass, and look like a beast.

As far as PCT goes Sustain Alpha is an awesome choice, but if you are planning to go with the clomid then TCF-1 is a great addition to it. If you try the TCF-1 try taking a dose pre workout, AWESOME time to take it to amp you up and get you into beast mode!!

Why do you recommend the TCF-1 instead of sustain alpha if he already has clomid in the PCT?

 

[hoopem6]

Why do you recommend the TCF-1 instead of sustain alpha if he already has clomid in the PCT?

Sustain Alpha not only contains test-boosting properties, but it also provides additional estrogen control; while TCF-1 primarily aids in the up-regulation of one's testosterone levels post-cycle. Both are advised because they essentially work synergistically with Clomid.

 

[imjuschillin]

Sustain Alpha not only contains test-boosting properties, but it also provides additional estrogen control; while TCF-1 primarily aids in the up-regulation of one's testosterone levels post-cycle. Both are advised because they essentially work synergistically with Clomid.

OK, so say, Clomid, SA, TCF-1, perhaps followed by endoamp would be a solid PCT for most cycles?

 

[hoopem6]

OK, so say, Clomid, SA, TCF-1, perhaps followed by endoamp would be a solid PCT for most cycles?

Absolutely, but that also depends on the duration of your proposed cycle and how harsh the hormonal compound is.

 

[delsolrob]

I've used dermacrine on my last couple cycles (Epi and SD). it's done a great job keeping my libido up and fending of lethargy!

 

[HereToStudy]

I've used dermacrine on my last couple cycles (Epi and SD). it's done a great job keeping my libido up and fending of lethargy!

Dermacrine is always a good choice, I wish I had added it to the cycle I am currently on . Im going to grab a bottle or two for my next cycle.

 

[cbr1000rr]

i havent really done much research into tcf-1 yet. ill look into it today. to be honest (i wasnt going to bring this up) i ran the trs stack maybe 6-7 months ago by itself to get a little boost as i suffer from low T levels. unfortunately, i didnt notice very much from it (other than highly elevated LH and prolactin levels; my bloods confirmed this). i ended up with a case of gyno, which resolved itself in a matter of months. I think the gyno was due to the SA which is why im weary of purchasing it again. my friend who also ran the SA ended up with gyno as well.

 

[hoopem6]

i havent really done much research into tcf-1 yet. ill look into it today. to be honest (i wasnt going to bring this up) i ran the trs stack maybe 6-7 months ago by itself to get a little boost as i suffer from low T levels. unfortunately, i didnt notice very much from it (other than highly elevated LH and prolactin levels; my bloods confirmed this). i ended up with a case of gyno, which resolved itself in a matter of months. I think the gyno was due to the SA which is why im weary of purchasing it again. my friend who also ran the SA ended up with gyno as well.

Had you previously ran anything hormonal before supplementing the TRS? Also, are you sure you weren't just experiencing gyno-like symptoms (i.e. itchiness, puffiness, sensitivity)?

 

[cbr1000rr]

no i havent.. as i said earlier i havent ran anything hormonal in probably like 2 years. it was def gyno confirmed by a surgeon.

 

[Rosie Chee]

Had you previously ran anything hormonal before supplementing the TRS? Also, are you sure you weren't just experiencing gyno-like symptoms (i.e. itchiness, puffiness, sensitivity)?

I was going to ask the same thing. Having used Sustain Alpha - both the topical and liqua-vade versions - I had no issues with them, and if there had been any "sides", being a female, I would have been affected more than any male.

~Rosie~
The Primordial Woman

 

[cbr1000rr]

yea i guess my friend and i were the unlucky ones.. either way, i still have time to evaluate what to add with my clomid and toco-8. the new formula of activate xtreme looks interesting but im kindof leaning towards testopro.

im actually really excited to receive the 1-t. hopefully ill get it by the weekend and the real madness can begin. been searching for logs of epi and 1-t and only have come up with a couple.. i will def do a lil log

 

[hoopem6]

no i havent.. as i said earlier i havent ran anything hormonal in probably like 2 years. it was def gyno confirmed by a surgeon.

So, no previous OTC testosterone boosters or AI's in the weeks prior to using the TRS? Also, did you utilize a proper PCT regimen for the hormonal compounds you previously used?

 

[cbr1000rr]

nope, absolutely nothing. and yes i did a full pct for all the compounds ive run in the past.

 

[hoopem6]

nope, absolutely nothing. and yes i did a full pct for all the compounds ive run in the past.

I'm not trying to pry, but this is the first time I've ever heard of this... Would you mind elaborating? What were the DS's and what did you use during PCT to ensure a full recovery?

 

[cbr1000rr]

ran just about everything. from real gear to epi. always used a serm, ai, supporting supps, and sometimes cortisol blocker. never had gyno until SA

 

[hoopem6]

ran just about everything. from real gear to epi. always used a serm, ai, supporting supps, and sometimes cortisol blocker. never had gyno until SA

In my opinion, your gyno was not directly caused by Sustain Alpha. I think it's more plausible that the natural increase in your testosterone levels via Sustain Alpha essentially aggravated an already developing, or existing, case of gyno; especially since it was the first supplement you've used since your two year supplement hiatus.

i ended up with a case of gyno, which resolved itself in a matter of months.

Also, since your gyno went away by itself over a relatively short period of time, it appears as though you were only suffering from gyno-like symptoms (possibly increased water retention).

 

[cbr1000rr]

i know it can be hard to accept, but SA def caused the gyno. this is why i didnt want to bring it up. But my friend and I had no pre-existing conditions of gyno ever. The surgeon was 100% it was gyno after all the tests and mammogram. He said it would go away itself over time as long as i didnt take anymore supps like that

 

[cbr1000rr]

p.s. i am not in anyway bashing PP. I think its an outstanding company with great products. Its just that my friend and I had a bad experience with SA

 

[SamBoz19]

p.s. i am not in anyway bashing PP. I think its an outstanding company with great products. Its just that my friend and I had a bad experience with SA

I can accept the fact that SA didn't work for you and you had a bad experience with it. However, I think you can understand why there is skepticism over how SA could have caused you gyno. For one, SA is natural and works endogenously, not exogenously meaning it will cause no suppression of hormone production as it works within the body's own natural production. Secondly, SA has SERM like and AI like qualities, in essence, it would help with gyno not cause it.

However, to give you benefit of the doubt...I never rule anything out so if that was your experience that is rather interesting and actually it shows that some more research needs to be done. Regardless, no matter what you take, even if it is supposed to be the most well researched and safest supplement known to man there are always exceptions to every rule...science can not account for every individual genetic difference.

I value your honesty, but more importantly thank you for not bad mouthing Primordial Performance. I know one bad experience with one product from the company can cause a customer to view the company as a whole in a negative light, but Primordial Performance is definitely top notch company and it shows a lot that you can say positive words about PP despite your experience.

Now lastly...one important piece of advice for you...never go by the word of surgeons or medical doctors in regard to supplementation...they are medical professionals yes, but the majority of them don't know sh*t when it comes to supplements. You have to remember that they have a bias and want people to be on prescription medication because it helps put more money in their pocket...supplements take money away from them .

Cheers!:cheers:

-Sean-

Primordial Performance

 

[cbr1000rr]

I can accept the fact that SA didn't work for you and you had a bad experience with it. However, I think you can understand why there is skepticism over how SA could have caused you gyno. For one, SA is natural and works endogenously, not exogenously meaning it will cause no suppression of hormone production as it works within the body's own natural production. Secondly, SA has SERM like and AI like qualities, in essence, it would help with gyno not cause it.

However, to give you benefit of the doubt...I never rule anything out so if that was your experience that is rather interesting and actually it shows that some more research needs to be done. Regardless, no matter what you take, even if it is supposed to be the most well researched and safest supplement known to man there are always exceptions to every rule...science can not account for every individual genetic difference.

I value your honesty, but more importantly thank you for not bad mouthing Primordial Performance. I know one bad experience with one product from the company can cause a customer to view the company as a whole in a negative light, but Primordial Performance is definitely top notch company and it shows a lot that you can say positive words about PP despite your experience.

Now lastly...one important piece of advice for you...never go by the word of surgeons or medical doctors in regard to supplementation...they are medical professionals yes, but the majority of them don't know sh*t when it comes to supplements. You have to remember that they have a bias and want people to be on prescription medication because it helps put more money in their pocket...supplements take money away from them .

Cheers!:cheers:

-Sean-

Primordial Performance

very well put.. maybe ill give SA another try.. but what im really looking forward to is incorporating the 1-t with epi tomorrow :stickp4: