Dermacrine + Formestane

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    Dermacrine + Formestane


    I'm just finishing my first week of the Dermacrine + Formestane stack. I also decided to add Primal Male to the mix. Nothing to report as far as gains or losses so far but I found that when I add PM to the mix it seems I have a rock hard boner virtually all night long. Every time I wake up my thing is stiff as a rock. This doesn't really bother me except the Viagra commercials say to see a doctor if you have an erection lasting longer than four hours. I'm sure this lasts longer than that so I may drop the PM.

    I am also concerned about the conversion of DHEA to ADG and it's affect on the prostste:

    Here is an interesting study on transdermal DHEA. From what I can tell, the dose used is something like 142 mg/day!

    Physiological changes in dehydroepiandrosterone are not reflected by serum levels of active androgens and estrogens but of their metabolites: intracrinology.

    Labrie F, Belanger A, Cusan L, Candas B.

    Medical Research Council Group in Molecular Endocrinology, Centre Hospitalier de l'Universite Laval Research Center, Le Centre Hospitalier Universitaire de Quebec, Canada.

    This study analyzes in detail the serum concentration of the active androgens and estrogens, as well as a series of free and conjugated forms of their precursors and metabolites, after daily application for 2 weeks of 10 mL 20% dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) solution on the skin to avoid first passage through the liver. In men, DHEA administration caused 175%, 90%, 200% and 120% increases in the circulating levels of DHEA and its sulfate (DHEA-S), DHEA-fatty acid esters, and androst-5-ene-3 beta,17 beta-diol, respectively, with a return to basal values 7 days after cessation of the 14-day treatment. Serum androstenedione increased by approximately 80%, whereas serum testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) remained unchanged. In parallel with the changes in serum DHEA, the concentrations of the conjugated metabolites of DHT, namely androsterone glucuronide, androstane-3 alpha,17 beta-diol-G, and androstane-3 beta,17 beta-diol-G increased by about 75%, 50%, and 75%, respectively, whereas androsterone-sulfate increased 115%. No consistent change was observed in serum estrone (E1) or estradiol (E2) in men receiving DHEA, whereas serum E1-sulfate and E2-sulfate were slightly and inconsistently increased by about 20%, and serum cortisol and aldosterone concentrations were unaffected by DHEA administration. Almost superimposable results were obtained in women for most steroids except testosterone, which was about 50% increased during DHEA treatment. This increase corresponded to about 0.8 nM testosterone, an effect undetectable in men because they already have much higher (approximately 15 nM) basal testosterone levels. In women, the serum levels of the conjugated metabolites of DHT, namely androsterone glucuronide, androstane-3 alpha,17 beta-diol-G, androstane-3 beta,17 beta-diol-G, and androsterone-sulfate were increased by 125%, 140%, 120% and 150%, respectively. The present study demonstrates that the serum concentrations of testosterone, DHT, E1, and E2 are poor indicators of total androgenic and estrogenic activity. However, the esterified metabolites of DHT appear as reliable markers of the total androgen pool, because they directly reflect the intracrine formation of androgens in the tissues possessing the steroidogenic enzymes required to transform the inactive precursors DHEA and DHEA-S into DHT. As well demonstrated in women, who synthesize almost all their androgens from DHEA and DHEA-S, supplementation with physiological amounts of exogeneous DHEA permits the biosynthesis of androgens limited to the appropriate target tissues without leakage of significant amounts of active androgens into the circulation. This local or intracrine biosynthesis and action of androgens eliminates the inappropriate exposure of other tissues to androgens and thus minimizes the risks of undesirable masculinizing or other androgen-related side effects of DHEA.

    PMID: 9253308 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    I'm just finishing my first week of the Dermacrine + Formestane stack. I also decided to add Primal Male to the mix. Nothing to report as far as gains or losses so far but I found that when I add PM to the mix it seems I have a rock hard boner virtually all night long. Every time I wake up my thing is stiff as a rock. This doesn't really bother me except the Viagra commercials say to see a doctor if you have an erection lasting longer than four hours. I'm sure this lasts longer than that so I may drop the PM.


    Or get a girlfriend
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    I'm married 39 years but my wife doesn't like to be awakend in the middle of the night even for sex. You'll understand one day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    I'm married 39 years but my wife doesn't like to be awakend in the middle of the night even for sex. You'll understand one day.
    Ya, maybe, but I hope not.
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    glad to see someones posting a dermacrine and formestane thread, i was going to run this cycle next but after reading this i reckon i'm going to have to add some primal male into the mix as well. looking forward to seeing how you go, best of luck and hope this goes well for you.
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    can tran resveratrol and formestane be used together ?
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    I just started the form + derm stack as well...1st day actually.....oh and I do have some primal male so maybe we will have to do some experimenting . I think the derm + form will more than suffice though.
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    I am just finishing my second week on Dermacrine/Formestane stack. Not much to report thus far. Mabe a little smaller around the waist but thats most likely from the Formestane. I will give this stack another week an see what transpires. However, it's not the same as 150 mg of test/wk. I have use 150 mg of test in the past and by week two my strength had increased significantly and I was gaining about 2 lbs/wk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    I am just finishing my second week on Dermacrine/Formestane stack. Not much to report thus far. Mabe a little smaller around the waist but thats most likely from the Formestane. I will give this stack another week an see what transpires. However, it's not the same as 150 mg of test/wk. I have use 150 mg of test in the past and by week two my strength had increased significantly and I was gaining about 2 lbs/wk.
    Keep us updated mate
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    I am just starting my 2nd week...day 8! An so far I have enjoyed it. I think things are starting to pic up. Libido is definately kicking strong and I feel as the form is starting to pull out some water weight. Noticed an increase in urination. I will have to say though that I added some LCLT and ALCAR about 2 days ago and I dunno if the derm and form finally hit me or if the carnitines are doing their job because the difference in effects are pretty big. For me, I love all carnitines (PLCAR/LCLT/ALCAR) and they respond well in my body. I think LCLT is a must when running anything that will boost test and the ALCAR gives me some good energy and focus. One other thing I will mention and dunno if it was from the derm and form or just life in general but I felt more tired the past week....the first week I started the cycle....then I had in a long time. Doing pretty good the past few days though so maybe just needed to catch up on some sleep.
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    [QUOTE=BBB;2416550]I'm just finishing my first week of the Dermacrine + Formestane stack. I also decided to add Primal Male to the mix. Nothing to report as far as gains or losses so far but I found that when I add PM to the mix it seems I have a rock hard boner virtually all night long. Every time I wake up my thing is stiff as a rock. This doesn't really bother me except the Viagra commercials say to see a doctor if you have an erection lasting longer than four hours. I'm sure this lasts longer than that so I may drop the PM.

    I am also concerned about the conversion of DHEA to ADG and it's affect on the prostste:

    Here is an interesting study on transdermal DHEA. From what I can tell, the dose used is something like 142 mg/day!

    Physiological changes in dehydroepiandrosterone are not reflected by serum levels of active androgens and estrogens but of their metabolites: intracrinology.

    Labrie F, Belanger A, Cusan L, Candas B.

    Medical Research Council Group in Molecular Endocrinology, Centre Hospitalier de l'Universite Laval Research Center, Le Centre Hospitalier Universitaire de Quebec, Canada.

    This study analyzes in detail the serum concentration of the active androgens and estrogens, as well as a series of free and conjugated forms of their precursors and metabolites, after daily application for 2 weeks of 10 mL 20% dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) solution on the skin to avoid first passage through the liver. In men, DHEA administration caused 175%, 90%, 200% and 120% increases in the circulating levels of DHEA and its sulfate (DHEA-S), DHEA-fatty acid esters, and androst-5-ene-3 beta,17 beta-diol, respectively, with a return to basal values 7 days after cessation of the 14-day treatment. Serum androstenedione increased by approximately 80%, whereas serum testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) remained unchanged. In parallel with the changes in serum DHEA, the concentrations of the conjugated metabolites of DHT, namely androsterone glucuronide, androstane-3 alpha,17 beta-diol-G, and androstane-3 beta,17 beta-diol-G increased by about 75%, 50%, and 75%, respectively, whereas androsterone-sulfate increased 115%. No consistent change was observed in serum estrone (E1) or estradiol (E2) in men receiving DHEA, whereas serum E1-sulfate and E2-sulfate were slightly and inconsistently increased by about 20%, and serum cortisol and aldosterone concentrations were unaffected by DHEA administration. Almost superimposable results were obtained in women for most steroids except testosterone, which was about 50% increased during DHEA treatment. This increase corresponded to about 0.8 nM testosterone, an effect undetectable in men because they already have much higher (approximately 15 nM) basal testosterone levels. In women, the serum levels of the conjugated metabolites of DHT, namely androsterone glucuronide, androstane-3 alpha,17 beta-diol-G, androstane-3 beta,17 beta-diol-G, and androsterone-sulfate were increased by 125%, 140%, 120% and 150%, respectively. The present study demonstrates that the serum concentrations of testosterone, DHT, E1, and E2 are poor indicators of total androgenic and estrogenic activity. However, the esterified metabolites of DHT appear as reliable markers of the total androgen pool, because they directly reflect the intracrine formation of androgens in the tissues possessing the steroidogenic enzymes required to transform the inactive precursors DHEA and DHEA-S into DHT. As well demonstrated in women, who synthesize almost all their androgens from DHEA and DHEA-S, supplementation with physiological amounts of exogeneous DHEA permits the biosynthesis of androgens limited to the appropriate target tissues without leakage of significant amounts of active androgens into the circulation. This local or intracrine biosynthesis and action of androgens eliminates the inappropriate exposure of other tissues to androgens and thus minimizes the risks of undesirable masculinizing or other androgen-related side effects of DHEA.

    PMID: 9253308 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE][/QUOTE




    that's strange cause accordingly to the reviews on NP for PM they all gave it 2 thumbs down and swear that they won't ever be buying that supp; again, hhmmm? so who's beatin who in the head?
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    I'm just finishing week three of Dermacrine/Formestane (4 pumps/day each), todate I can't say that I've noticed much change. Strength, weight and bf% is about the same as when I started. I may be slightly leaner but it's difficult to tell for sure. I plan on finishing the entire bottle before I give my final evaluation. I should be the ideal candidate for this product, 60 years old with low DHEA and test levels. However, I may not have the natural enzymes to convert DHEA to test.
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    I'm giving up on Dermacrane. I'm one day shy of 4 weeks and I haven't noticed any positive changes. Strength is the same, weight is the same however I have leaned out a bit but this is most likely from the formestane. It always leans me out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    I'm giving up on Dermacrane. I'm one day shy of 4 weeks and I haven't noticed any positive changes. Strength is the same, weight is the same however I have leaned out a bit but this is most likely from the formestane. It always leans me out.
    Dermacrine normally will help with leaning out. I don't usually notice too much in strength increases while on it. More increases in sense of well being, energy, libido, and a leaning out/ recomp effect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    I'm giving up on Dermacrane. I'm one day shy of 4 weeks and I haven't noticed any positive changes. Strength is the same, weight is the same however I have leaned out a bit but this is most likely from the formestane. It always leans me out.
    I'm just finishing up my third week. I'm dissapointed to say I haven't noticed the Derm at all. I'm 37 years old and thought it would be perfect for me but it's been a let down. I'm wishing I would have tried something else out now. Hopefully the Toco 8 I'm taking will end up making the purchase worth it. Nothing like spending money on things that don't work for you.
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