- 04-01-2010, 04:10 PM
Just a few quick questions for ya'll really quick. I know this is a methylated compound but is it really that harsh on the liver? Is this a major concern? This would be really my first ph and am just looking for that extra edge during my cut. Will a ph really help to cut down that fast while retaining muscle? I have read nothing but great things about this compound and am definately interested in it. What would one suggest to stack with it for just a straight cut? I like my size right now just wanna pull some extra lbs from the midsection. Thanks
- 04-01-2010, 04:42 PM
Liver Juice to run with a cycle. Even if you took Turinabol solo I think you would experience a great recomp if your diet looks good.
Here is an un-sponsored review my buddy did.
04-01-2010, 05:14 PM
Thanks for the reply! Could I run it for only 4 weeks & still see some good recomp or is 6 weeks still best? It looks like the above reviewer saw good results in less than 20 days
04-01-2010, 05:23 PM
Also will pp's TRS more than suffice for PCT? I don't want to have to get a whole slough of other stuff!
04-01-2010, 06:56 PM
04-01-2010, 07:02 PM
Thanks for the reply! Yea I was looking at getting the turinabol stack on pp's site just wanted to make sure I didn't need anything else for pct!
04-02-2010, 01:32 AM
I know this wasnt your question but i just got my order in two days ago of there turinabol muscle stack and it was packaged very well. Sounds like a small deal but to me it showed they cared about what they were sending to me.
04-02-2010, 09:59 AM
04-02-2010, 06:46 PM
Id say run liver juice with it from PP for the course of the cycle and a couple weeks after.
the milkthistle in liver juice is great for cleaning/suppourting the liver.
04-02-2010, 09:11 PM
Id say run it for the whole 6 weeks. With Liver Juice, start using it 2 weeks before you start your cycle.
04-02-2010, 09:48 PM
I am ditching my stand alone Novedex XT cycle and buying the Turinabol Muscle Stack. Although I was told to wait two weeks on liver juice bbefore starting, considering I've been using NXT should I add an additional rest period?
04-03-2010, 04:35 AM
04-03-2010, 07:04 PM
04-04-2010, 03:53 AM
5-6 weeks is where it is at. Im finishing week 5 right now and my strength is blowing up. My deadlift is 605 as of today. The most I had done before this cycle was 535. That is not saying it wasnt higher before I started my cycle but that is the most I attempted before this cycle. Another added bonus is I havent added a lot of weight but people are saying u look a lot thicker through ur chest and shoulders now.
04-04-2010, 01:06 PM
I agree with the 5-6 weeks recommendation. Last time I used a halodrol clone, I only used it for 3 weeks, and the start of week 3 is really when the recomp effects start to kick in very noticeably for me. I would have ran it for 6 weeks, but I started it in the middle of another cycle.
04-05-2010, 05:26 AM
04-05-2010, 12:12 PM
^^^He ain't kiddin' about the superdrone. I'd probably shoot for 3 weeks, 4 at most.
Halodrol/Turinabol is kind of peculiar among the orals in that it really starts to work beautifully in week 3 and beyond. So weeks 3 through 6 will be the most impressive part of the cycle IMO. Run the Liver Juice (+2 week front load) and run the Turinabol LV for 6 weeks as well and you will probably be quite impressed with the results.
04-05-2010, 01:25 PM
04-05-2010, 05:54 PM
You have to keep calories high during PCT regardless (or your body will burn that new muscle instead of old fat for energy) and then titrate to your new BMR (basal metabolic rate). If you put on 5 lean lbs for instance, your calories needed per day will increase to sustain your new weight.
During PCT itself, it is usually best to err on the side of eating a bit too much rather than too little-you just don't want to give your body a chance to rid itself of that unwanted new muscle (that is the way the body sees it). And then just do cardio+adjust diet or whatever you do to reduce fat (stims, etc) say 2 months down the road after your weight is solid and you can cut any fat you put on during PCT and still keep the muscle you gained. Once your new weight solidifies, it becomes like your old weight-the body wants it to stay the same (a good thing if you do the above correctly). Just DON'T go on a diet during PCT-that is the easiest way to lose all your gains.
BTW, I've kept all of my gains for my last 2 cycles (and I gained a few lbs of fat too, but nothing I can't get rid of). When I first started doing cycles several years ago, I'd gain a lot and lose half because I didn't know much about PCT and I was using highly suppressive compounds like M1T. Turinabol LV is not highly suppressive by any means.
So the short answer is yes, you can keep your gains; just use a solid PCT like the TRS and follow some PCT diet guidelines and you will be good to go.
04-05-2010, 09:08 PM
04-07-2010, 09:52 AM
If I was looking to run a: Tbol, Forma & Derma stack to recomp for the summer, would I need much more than the TRS stack from PP as PCT? I ask because of recent articles I've read on Nolva and Clomid, and while I know they're necessary for many cycles, I'd like to avoid them if at all possible...
Now I have some in my cabinet at home, so if worse comes to worse I'll be able to use it no problem, but I just wanted to check in with a few PP reps much more versed in this than I about it first!
04-07-2010, 10:56 AM
04-09-2010, 12:44 AM
The turinabol stack has the TRS.
Should I still keep a SERM on hand and if so which ones or one. I hear that Nolva is junk...
Now since I don't want to ditch my cardio I plan on upping my caloric intake by 30%. I run 9 miles a week...
Usually 3 miles 3 times a week and 2 10 mile bike rides before gym.... It gets me amped...
I plan on using the PP Turina Stack that includes the PCT but shouldni still err on the sidenif caution and include another SERM or any other supplement?
What do you think?
04-09-2010, 01:28 AM
I'd recommend toremifene citrate, no question. If you decide to run it with the TRS for 4 weeks, you only need a low dose-40mg/day. If you just run the TRS in PCT and recovery isn't as rapid as it should be, then you can add in the torem and finish out your PCT; torem is very fast acting IME. I think it has the best sides-to-benefits ratio, but as I said, it is a drug and has sides. I noticed today at work that I was sweating all day (hot flashes and sweating are common sides of SERMs). I also had some transient visual disturbances for the first time ever from using a SERM today. They are reversible with toremifene (whereas clomid seems to cause more serious eye problems in some users) and they have went away and again, they are a common side of all SERMs.
I think that low dose (40mg) torem + the TRS is a relatively safe PCT with a low risk of sides. You may be fine with the TRS only. If the TRS only isn't working out, then just add 40mg/day torem for the remainder of the TRS PCT and you should be fine.
Nolva is junk IMO. Seriously, I've used nolva and it has worse sides than torem (torem is probably the mildest and also most effective IME). I have a bottle of nolva, clomid, and torem. I haven't opened the clomid bottle nor do I plan to (waste of money-I only use torem if a SERM is needed now). Some ppl swear by it, but I am not one of them. Nolva is also more liver toxic than torem; not what you need after a 17aa cycle. But these are just my opinions; everyone kind of does their own thing in SERM land.
Hope that answered your Q's.
04-09-2010, 02:59 PM
Since then I've only ever used the Testosterone Recovery Stack for PCT and thrown in other testosterone boosters such as Phyto-Testosterone, and most recently HGHUp (which is awesome btw).
04-09-2010, 04:09 PM
^^^Something else to note:
SERMs do not work for everyone. Sometimes they work, and sometimes they just do more harm than good. They all have sides. I may get flamed for this, but I repeat, SERMs do not work for everyone (for PCT recovery). And not just Nolva, but SERMs in general. Nolva is just the nastiest of the lot IMO.
That is why it is wise to try alternative methods if they can accomplish the same results in effect (and with less sides). For instance, the TRS stack should work fine for a Turinabol LV PCT. Have a good SERM handy, just plan to not use it unless gyno symptoms emerge on cycle or your PCT recovery is not going well. And in the worst case, if you need to include a low dose SERM (pref. torem) along with the TRS, then you can use a smaller than normal dose (40mg torem/day instead of 120/90/60/30 or similar). Doing so will minimize the risk/severity of side effects and will also help ensure that SERM mega-dosing doesn't end up working against you recovery-wise.
04-10-2010, 10:04 AM
Awesome... You guys have the expeience and the bases covered. I am going to stick with the TRS and if I have a problem after that I will call the doc.
But after reding thread after thread I don't think anything drastic will happen...
I will also try to source the SERM's online just in cars the doc has no idea what I need...
04-10-2010, 02:27 PM
My question now becomes after PCT how would I know if my testosterone is kicked back on by itself?
What are the side effects that would indicate that it hasn't turned back on?
Thank You Again UK
Arctic Monkeys Rock!!!!
04-11-2010, 02:35 AM
Here is my preliminary plan:
So this TLV is supposed to be maybe twice as powerful... That is why I am going to use it this way:
The last two weeks I might not use it all..
I am almost complete with my research in that I am reading on Clomid/ Nolva/ toremifene citrate of the three I am not sure which ones I should use if any.
Reps say the TRS stack is sufficient yet other members say to have a SERM handy. Ao I will err on the cautious side and have one handy.
I am also including;
Hawthorne Berry during preload
Liver Juice Preloaded
and the recommended PP plan ..
I will also include saw palmetto
Coq 10 and probiotic yogurt....
I plan on using the Hawthorne all the way through TLV..
So I think I will have all angles covered...
Since I run and cycle quite a bit I will not be working out legs.
My workout will consist of the following:
Sunday: 3 mile run/Chest and Tri 16 sets total - heavy to mid to light to exhaustion
Tuesday:3 Mile run/ Biceps 16 sets total- heavy weight to mid weight to light weight to exhaustion
Wednesday :: Rest
Thursday; 10 mile cycling medium to short duration sprints/ Shoulders 10-16 sets heavy weight to light weight 16 sets total to exhaustion
Friday: 10 Mile Cycle/ Biceps 16 sets heavy weight to light weight to exhaustion
I keep my cardio up during weighlidring as well...
I burn more fat this way and the heavier weight at the introduction of the workout helps me bulk.,,
calories: 2000 to 2500
what do you all think?
04-11-2010, 03:15 AM