Primordial Performance's 1-T Tren Write-Up!

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Dragon13 View Post
    Well, because 1-Androsterone (1-T) as a transdermal makes perfect sense because of the enzymes in the skin converting more of the product, therefore allowing for more active to be available in the body. From what I understood, the Tren compounds were already highly bio-available, so unlike 1-T, the transdermal application didn't offer any specific benefits other than less hepatic stress, which "should" be low anyway as the Trens are non-methyl. So the question was posed more along the lines of, does it make sense at $80/bottle for the combo, as 1-T Tren has less 1-Andro in it than 1-T, or would 1-T + something like Tren Extreme be more cost-efficient?

    However, after looking at what it would cost, it actually does looks cheaper to do it with 1-T Tren rather than 1-T + oral Tren. So, yeah, guess it does "make sense" from that standpoint too.

    Nice work.

    What do you mean by high oral bio-availability? I have not been able to find any credible source of information that shows the TREN molecule getting any better absorption than say, 1-AD. (which is only about 8%)

    -Eric


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    And what studies or evidence supports this exactly? None i've ever read. It's VERY well known that oral compounds have MANY issues in general in terms of being adequately absorbed or utilized without having methylation in place. The first-pass-effect destroys the majority of compounds that are introduced without this intervention put into place.

    Lymphatic delivery is another option, but ideals of actual absorbtion are speculative at best. Enteral entry and absorbtion of ANY compound or medication is far more complicated than most people think.

    Transdermal based substances are utilized for the immense benefits they offer in general. Better absorbtion or said compounds, less compound degredation overall, and without a doubt achieving better results with a significantly less hepatic stress effect (That in itself is worth its weight in gold, trust me.)
    LOL, come on, studies? On designer tren compounds? I'm pretty sure there are none, so I guess it's more bro-science than anything else. But honestly, as you yourself have run multiple methyls before, we both know a non-methylated product will place significantly less stress on the liver. That's just common sense. Whether or not the even further reduced hepatic stress from transdermal delivery makes much difference is open to opinion.

    I have never run the Tren designers before, but from all accounts they are effective, if prone to sides. I expect the same from the PP product, if not better. I don't think anyone, even you guys, have any hard data on transdermal absorption vs oral delivery, but I was very pleased with 1-T, so maybe the 81 mgs of the 19-nor in 5 pumps of 1-T Tren will produce better results than 90 or even 120 mgs taken orally. That, however, remains to be seen.

    I'm mulling over trying this, although I am afraid of these progestin-based compounds (gyno, BP issues). Either way, like I said in the earlier post, if one were to want to stack 1-Andro and Tren, this looks like the way to go.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    What do you mean by high oral bio-availability? I have not been able to find any credible source of information that shows the TREN molecule getting any better absorption than say, 1-AD. (which is only about 8%)

    -Eric
    I don't think there is any data, that statement is admittedly based on anecdotal evidence. But then again Eric, and correct me if something has changed, you guys didn't have any hard absorption data for 1-T either (remember the whole Pat Arnold - Mike McCandless tag-team over on BB? If I'm not mistaken that was one of the things they wrre grilling you on). And 8% on 1-AD? If you don't mind, where did you get that data?

    Look, I really liked 1-T, and I already said that upon further inspection is does seem like your product would be superior to a 1-T/oral Tren stack. I may even try it out.

  4. The ability to effectively deliver sufficient amounts of bioavailable actives (of any said compound) into systemic circulation for primary utilization is key. This is one of the primary reasons why a transdermal delivery method is often implemented in use.

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  5. Quote Originally Posted by Dragon13 View Post
    LOL, come on, studies? On designer tren compounds? I'm pretty sure there are none, so I guess it's more bro-science than anything else. But honestly, as you yourself have run multiple methyls before, we both know a non-methylated product will place significantly less stress on the liver. That's just common sense. Whether or not the even further reduced hepatic stress from transdermal delivery makes much difference is open to opinion.

    I have never run the Tren designers before, but from all accounts they are effective, if prone to sides. I expect the same from the PP product, if not better. I don't think anyone, even you guys, have any hard data on transdermal absorption vs oral delivery, but I was very pleased with 1-T, so maybe the 81 mgs of the 19-nor in 5 pumps of 1-T Tren will produce better results than 90 or even 120 mgs taken orally. That, however, remains to be seen.

    I'm mulling over trying this, although I am afraid of these progestin-based compounds (gyno, BP issues). Either way, like I said in the earlier post, if one were to want to stack 1-Andro and Tren, this looks like the way to go.
    I'm talking more along the lines of delivery methods (oral (methylated or lymphatic/lipophillic delivery), injection, or transdermal) here though, which most certainly will effect the degree/amount of systemic bioavailable actives delivered. I'm not focusing on a specific compound in general per se, because essentially that can be a moot aspect in many ways.

    There are plenty of supportive medical studies in regard to enteral, parenteral, and/or transdermal delivery methods, and the specific pros/cons they demonstrate, i can assure you that. Many medications in general are designed to utilize the benefits of that delivery method in their application.

    Transdermal delivery methods will most certainly have a significantly lessened degree of hepatic stress, especially when we're talking about making enteral delivered (oral) medications/androgens bioavailable to systemic use (I.E. Methylation.) A non-methylated oral compound won't have a high degree of hepatic stress, you're right, but whatever is absorbed will ultimately face the hepatic first-pass metabolism effect. That in itself will significantly alter the amount of bioavailable active delivered.

    You said that to your understanding that 'Tren' like compounds were 'highly bioavailable', however the degree of that is most certainly dependent upon the efficacy of the utilized delivery modality Which is what i've outlined above.

    I agree that anecdotal-based evidence is the primary method of feedback at this point. I'm willing to get blood work done when i eventually run this myself. While still anecdotal in nature, it should add some insight overall.

    The anecdotal reports we've received back from 1-T (myself included) have been fairly impressive. I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed 1-T yourself. As soon as the 1-T Tren logs start rolling in, i'll put them together in a consolidated thread as i did with the 1-T logs.

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary

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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    I'm talking more along the lines of delivery methods (oral (methylated or lymphatic/lipophillic delivery), injection, or transdermal) here though, which most certainly will effect the degree/amount of systemic bioavailable actives delivered. I'm not focusing on a specific compound in general per se, because essentially that can be a moot aspect in many ways.

    There are plenty of supportive medical studies in regard to enteral, parenteral, and/or transdermal delivery methods, and the specific pros/cons they demonstrate, i can assure you that. Many medications in general are designed to utilize the benefits of that delivery method in their application.

    Transdermal delivery methods will most certainly have a significantly lessened degree of hepatic stress, especially when we're talking about making enteral delivered (oral) medications/androgens bioavailable to systemic use (I.E. Methylation.) A non-methylated oral compound won't have a high degree of hepatic stress, you're right, but whatever is absorbed will ultimately face the hepatic first-pass metabolism effect. That in itself will significantly alter the amount of bioavailable active delivered.

    You said that to your understanding that 'Tren' like compounds were 'highly bioavailable', however the degree of that is most certainly dependent upon the efficacy of the utilized delivery modality Which is what i've outlined above.

    I agree that anecdotal-based evidence is the primary method of feedback at this point. I'm willing to get blood work done when i eventually run this myself. While still anecdotal in nature, it should add some insight overall.

    The anecdotal reports we've received back from 1-T (myself included) have been fairly impressive. I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed 1-T yourself. As soon as the 1-T Tren logs start rolling in, i'll put them together in a consolidated thread as i did with the 1-T logs.
    True. It boils down to how much active is delivered... but Trauma, I already do believe in trasdermal delivery! I'm not arguing that point at all. I liked 1-T and I expect, on a mg by mg basis, 1-T Tren will be as effective or more than 1-T + oral Tren, or oral 1-Andro + oral Tren. And it's cheaper. My whole point of contention in the original post was that transdermal delivery wasn't as "necessary" as it was for 1-Andro (b/c no conversion required), and at $80/bottle, would 1-T Tren be "needed" when one could run 1-T + an oral to get thye saem effect. After I find out it's actually cheaper, 2 thumbs up.

    Also looking forward to the logs...

  7. How long will one bottle at 5 pumps a day go?

  8. Quote Originally Posted by NattyT View Post
    How long will one bottle at 5 pumps a day go?
    4 Pumps/day = 27 applications

    5 Pumps/day = 23 applications

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  9. Quote Originally Posted by Dragon13 View Post
    True. It boils down to how much active is delivered... but Trauma, I already do believe in trasdermal delivery! I'm not arguing that point at all. I liked 1-T and I expect, on a mg by mg basis, 1-T Tren will be as effective or more than 1-T + oral Tren, or oral 1-Andro + oral Tren. And it's cheaper. My whole point of contention in the original post was that transdermal delivery wasn't as "necessary" as it was for 1-Andro (b/c no conversion required), and at $80/bottle, would 1-T Tren be "needed" when one could run 1-T + an oral to get thye saem effect. After I find out it's actually cheaper, 2 thumbs up.

    Also looking forward to the logs...
    I took what you said a different way i guess. No biggie though, i understand your statements here.

    I look forward to the logs myself. It's time to get hyooge!

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  10. Quote Originally Posted by Dragon13 View Post
    I don't think there is any data, that statement is admittedly based on anecdotal evidence. But then again Eric, and correct me if something has changed, you guys didn't have any hard absorption data for 1-T either (remember the whole Pat Arnold - Mike McCandless tag-team over on BB? If I'm not mistaken that was one of the things they wrre grilling you on). And 8% on 1-AD? If you don't mind, where did you get that data?

    Look, I really liked 1-T, and I already said that upon further inspection is does seem like your product would be superior to a 1-T/oral Tren stack. I may even try it out.


    1-AD is going to have less oral bioavailability than methenolone acetate [15-20%] because its non-methylated, but more than plain DHEA [3%] because it is has a double-bond in the 1st position, so 8% is an educated guess for 1-ene compounds (1-AD, 1-DHEA, ect). Ive made this proposal several times, and even the almighty steroid guru Pat himself has no disagreeance with it.

    With that said, I’m not seeing anything special that would improve oral absorption with the 19-nor molecule, except maybe the 9-ene… so 8% is really a high guess for oral absorption.

    We base our 35% average TD delivery claim based on the aggressive permeants and penetration enhancers in our formula. Similar formulas have been proven to absorb at rates upwards of 30%, and even higher on thin areas of the skin, so 35% is really an estimate in a best case scenario.

    Even if you only get 20% absorbed topically, you should still yield better results with 81mg in a TD than you would with 150mg orally. (assuming you even get 8% in an oral)

    In fact, Im so sure you will love 1-T TREN that I’ll give you your money bac…. Ah jeez… you get what Im sayin.

    -Eric

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    1-AD is going to have less oral bioavailability than methenolone acetate [15-20%] because its non-methylated, but more than plain DHEA [3%] because it is has a double-bond in the 1st position, so 8% is an educated guess for 1-ene compounds (1-AD, 1-DHEA, ect). Ive made this proposal several times, and even the almighty steroid guru Pat himself has no disagreeance with it.

    With that said, I’m not seeing anything special that would improve oral absorption with the 19-nor molecule, except maybe the 9-ene… so 8% is really a high guess for oral absorption.

    We base our 35% average TD delivery claim based on the aggressive permeants and penetration enhancers in our formula. Similar formulas have been proven to absorb at rates upwards of 30%, and even higher on thin areas of the skin, so 35% is really an estimate in a best case scenario.

    Even if you only get 20% absorbed topically, you should still yield better results with 81mg in a TD than you would with 150mg orally. (assuming you even get 8% in an oral)

    In fact, Im so sure you will love 1-T TREN that I’ll give you your money bac…. Ah jeez… you get what Im sayin.

    -Eric
    Okay, You sold me. I can't wait to run this stuff.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    1-AD is going to have less oral bioavailability than methenolone acetate [15-20%] because its non-methylated, but more than plain DHEA [3%] because it is has a double-bond in the 1st position, so 8% is an educated guess for 1-ene compounds (1-AD, 1-DHEA, ect). Ive made this proposal several times, and even the almighty steroid guru Pat himself has no disagreeance with it.

    With that said, I’m not seeing anything special that would improve oral absorption with the 19-nor molecule, except maybe the 9-ene… so 8% is really a high guess for oral absorption.

    We base our 35% average TD delivery claim based on the aggressive permeants and penetration enhancers in our formula. Similar formulas have been proven to absorb at rates upwards of 30%, and even higher on thin areas of the skin, so 35% is really an estimate in a best case scenario.

    Even if you only get 20% absorbed topically, you should still yield better results with 81mg in a TD than you would with 150mg orally. (assuming you even get 8% in an oral)

    In fact, Im so sure you will love 1-T TREN that I’ll give you your money bac…. Ah jeez… you get what Im sayin.

    -Eric
    LOL, I do get what your sayin'. I really liked 1-T, I gave it a great review in my log, so I expect the Tren version should work nicely as well. Really, all the different claims regarding the % of absorption bandied about don't mean a whole lot. I know some people have taken issues with your 30-35% absorption claims - but again it doesn't really matter. The only question that matters is, does it work as advertised in the real world? For me, 1-T passed the test, and I assume Tren will as well.

    If I get over my fear of progestin-based compounds, I might try it...

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Dragon13 View Post
    LOL, I do get what your sayin'. I really liked 1-T, I gave it a great review in my log, so I expect the Tren version should work nicely as well. Really, all the different claims regarding the % of absorption bandied about don't mean a whole lot. I know some people have taken issues with your 30-35% absorption claims - but again it doesn't really matter. The only question that matters is, does it work as advertised in the real world? For me, 1-T passed the test, and I assume Tren will as well.

    If I get over my fear of progestin-based compounds, I might try it...
    Sounds good.. be sure to link me up to log if you go for it.

    Thanks guys.

    -Eric

  14. Is the Tren 1 going to be ok for us guys in Australia?
    AZZA

  15. Quote Originally Posted by AZZA View Post
    Is the Tren 1 going to be ok for us guys in Australia?
    AZZA
    We wont be able to ship this to AUS because of the DHEA.

    -Eric

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    We wont be able to ship this to AUS because of the DHEA.

    -Eric
    Is that you Eric? Aaron downunder here, thanks for reply, looks like we luck out again. You have my email still for the review? We can still do the other product we talked about.
    AZZA

  17. Hey there fellas new here, ordered my 1-t tren, just waiting on delivery curious to know if there is anything I can do before I begin my cycle to "prime" my body to enhance or to take full advantage of what this product can do? Maybe through diet, or other supplementation I was reading about L-carnitiine L-tartrate making androgen receptors more availible, any thoughts much appreciated.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by trav1020 View Post
    Hey there fellas new here, ordered my 1-t tren, just waiting on delivery curious to know if there is anything I can do before I begin my cycle to "prime" my body to enhance or to take full advantage of what this product can do? Maybe through diet, or other supplementation I was reading about L-carnitiine L-tartrate making androgen receptors more availible, any thoughts much appreciated.
    When's the last time you did anything hormonal?

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  19. this would be the first

  20. Quote Originally Posted by trav1020 View Post
    this would be the first
    You really won't need anything to prime yourself then; you're good to go.

    LG Sciences does make a product "Receptor" if you're interested in checking it out, but in all honesty, you don't need anything at this point.

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  21. Thanks for the response, cant wait to get the product and give it a run.

  22. It sucks that the 1t/tren got pushed back until the 11th, whats up with that?

  23. Quote Originally Posted by NattyT View Post
    It sucks that the 1t/tren got pushed back until the 11th, whats up with that?
    There was some minor delays with manufacturing/bottling. Everything should be good to go on march 11th. If anything new arises, i'll inform you all; we don't anticipate that though.

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  24. Does anyone plan to log this shortly? If so, please link us to it.

    Go get your 1-T Tren, gentlemen!

    1-T Tren

    1-T Tren Twin Pack

    Xtreme Hardcore Muscle Stack

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  25. Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    Does anyone plan to log this shortly? If so, please link us to it.

    Go get your 1-T Tren, gentlemen!

    1-T Tren

    1-T Tren Twin Pack

    Xtreme Hardcore Muscle Stack
    trauma!..hit the nail on the head with that one!..yall need to get that tren!
    board supporter

  26. Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    Does anyone plan to log this shortly? If so, please link us to it.

    Go get your 1-T Tren, gentlemen!

    1-T Tren

    1-T Tren Twin Pack

    Xtreme Hardcore Muscle Stack
    Bump!

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  27. I'm going to log but I need to get my post count up first so I can post links and pics.

    Trauma, I sent one PM to you here and one on PP forums.

  28. I have a different question about this product. Am i going to need 60X0 or an antiaromatise to use with this product to keep from estrogen production. i really dont feel like haveing to drain the nips. that sh-t hurts. haha. and am i going to need a cycle support of some sort? thanks

  29. Quote Originally Posted by ellingtonlies View Post
    I have a different question about this product. Am i going to need 60X0 or an antiaromatise to use with this product to keep from estrogen production. i really dont feel like haveing to drain the nips. that sh-t hurts. haha. and am i going to need a cycle support of some sort? thanks
    Stay away from 6-oxo… if you are going to use an AI, then I recommend Arom-X or formestane. (formesol is good too) I don’t think most guys would need an AI, but if you know you are sensitive to gyno symptoms, then it wouldn’t be a bad idea.

    We do recommend vitex to control prolactin control though.

    -Eric

  30. Bump for some questions/comments!

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary

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