Toco 8 Claims

[EIC]

As I understand it, the whole gist of Toco 8 is that it is tocotrienols that have numerous beneficial effects compared to the d-alpha-tocopherol that is normally pushed as vitamin E.

It looks like the write-up on Toco 8 cites three different studies for the proposition that "[t]he specific ratio of vitamin E's in Toco-8 . . . [h]elp[] support testosterone production by maintaining optimum pituitary & testicular function."

But in one of those studies, "Effect of Vitamin E on Function of Pituitary-Gonadal Axis in Male Rats and Human Subject," the treatment which resulted in the beneficial effects on testosterone secretion was a certain amount of dl-alpha-tocopherol.

I can't seem to find the other two studies (one is in Japanese?), but they are from the 1970s, so I doubt they were using anything other than d- or dl-alpha-tocopherol.

All of this makes me wonder if there are any studies showing whether the mixture of tocotrienols in Toco 8 has the same or better effect as claimed. It also makes me wonder if vitamin E's effects are dose dependent, and if so, whether Toco 8 provides the required dose.

I guess what I'm saying is that we are being led to believe that tocotrienols have beneficial effects on testosterone production based on studies which used d- or dl-alpha tocopherol, the very thing that is said to be inferior to Toco 8.

 

[djl]

Subbed. Should be an interesting discussion!

 

[Knowbull]

I read about tocotrienols enhancing test production and delaying alopecia in the early nineties, very few places had them. I have used them regularly since then. They do work if you can assimilate them and they are of full spectrum quality. The problem is some people have problems digesting palm oil extracts which makes dry form Toco 8 ideal. I have used T8 for over a month and noticed a difference in muscular tone and density. Skin tone and hair texture is also improved. Unless one could not afford it; it is worth the risk to try it. I want to add that Im also using the Endoamp, these are 2 welcome additions to my supplement regimen. I hope that helps you.

 

[Eric Potratz]

As I understand it, the whole gist of Toco 8 is that it is tocotrienols that have numerous beneficial effects compared to the d-alpha-tocopherol that is normally pushed as vitamin E.

It looks like the write-up on Toco 8 cites three different studies for the proposition that "[t]he specific ratio of vitamin E's in Toco-8 . . . [h]elp[] support testosterone production by maintaining optimum pituitary & testicular function."

But in one of those studies, "Effect of Vitamin E on Function of Pituitary-Gonadal Axis in Male Rats and Human Subject," the treatment which resulted in the beneficial effects on testosterone secretion was a certain amount of dl-alpha-tocopherol.

I can't seem to find the other two studies (one is in Japanese?), but they are from the 1970s, so I doubt they were using anything other than d- or dl-alpha-tocopherol.

All of this makes me wonder if there are any studies showing whether the mixture of tocotrienols in Toco 8 has the same or better effect as claimed. It also makes me wonder if vitamin E's effects are dose dependent, and if so, whether Toco 8 provides the required dose.

I guess what I'm saying is that we are being led to believe that tocotrienols have beneficial effects on testosterone production based on studies which used d- or dl-alpha tocopherol, the very thing that is said to be inferior to Toco 8.

Tocotrienols are superior to tocopherols in cholesterol reduction, atherosclerotic clean up, and hair growth . In regards to boosting testosterone, I wouldn’t say tocotrienols are any better than tocopherols though. Besides, Toco-8 does contain the same alpha-tocopherol used in the study. [except Toco-8 is water soluble with improved bio-availablity]

Tocotrienols are known to be superior anti-oxidants, so if the alpha-tocopherols are enhancing LH, testicular sensitivity and testosterone through oxidation protection of the endocrine glands then tocotrienols could be considered superior…. But there is no study that has examined this and we don’t even know exactly how vitamin e is enhancing pituitary levels of LH, FSH and improving testicular sensitivity.

We do know that Toco-8 does work for this purpose though as we have seen a number of blood tests that show an improved LH:testosterone ratio. [for instance, a reduction in basal LH and rise in total Testosterone]

-Pp

 

[EIC]

Tocotrienols are superior to tocopherols in cholesterol reduction, atherosclerotic clean up, and hair growth . In regards to boosting testosterone, I wouldn’t say tocotrienols are any better than tocopherols though. Besides, Toco-8 does contain the same alpha-tocopherol used in the study. [except Toco-8 is water soluble with improved bio-availablity]

Tocotrienols are known to be superior anti-oxidants, so if the alpha-tocopherols are enhancing LH, testicular sensitivity and testosterone through oxidation protection of the endocrine glands then tocotrienols could be considered superior…. But there is no study that has examined this and we don’t even know exactly how vitamin e is enhancing pituitary levels of LH, FSH and improving testicular sensitivity.

We do know that Toco-8 does work for this purpose though as we have seen a number of blood tests that show an improved LH:testosterone ratio. [for instance, a reduction in basal LH and rise in total Testosterone]

-Pp

So it sounds like the tocotrienols are definitely better from heart health and cholesterol standpoint, and are no worse and may offer an advantage relative to alpha-tocopherol when it comes to testicular sensitivity.

But what about dosage for the testicular sensitivity benefits? The study used 10 mg. of alpha-tocopherol per 100 g. of diet. If all of the vitamin E in Toco-8 can serve this purpose, two servings of Toco-8 a day would permit 2,600 grams of food to match the ratio in the study. I have no idea how much (or little) food that is. But if alpha-tocopherol is the only part of the vitamin E family that has the testicular sensitivity effects, two servings of Toco-8 per day would seem to fall short of the amount used in the study.

I would love to see a follow-up study comparing alpha-tocopherol and Toco-8 in rats, though I'm sure that is not likely to happen anytime soon.

 

[Eric Potratz]

I would love to see a follow-up study comparing alpha-tocopherol and Toco-8 in rats, though I'm sure that is not likely to happen anytime soon.

The best we can do is continue to sponsor Sustain Alpha & Toco-8 logs for actual users as they run blood tests on T, E2, LH & FSH. The results from these tests should continue to support our claims for Toco-8.

We will have a couple new logs going up on here and M&M soon.

-Eric

 

[EIC]

The best we can do is continue to sponsor Sustain Alpha & Toco-8 logs for actual users as they run blood tests on T, E2, LH & FSH. The results from these tests should continue to support our claims for Toco-8.

We will have a couple new logs going up on here and M&M soon.

-Eric

I don't doubt that Toco-8 works; I'm a huge fan. I'm just wondering if we are leaving anything on the shelf in terms of sensitivity when it comes to dosage. Again, this all depends on whether alpha-tocopherol is the active form of vitamin E in that regard (admittedly, this is quite unlikely).

 

[Knowbull]

I take it that you have never used this product, if you had there wouldnt be much discussion. Im surprised there havent been any assertions from other tocotrienol users. It's obvious there arent many others. It is an obscure supplement and I suppose many think of it as "expensive vitamin E". All I can say is it works for me.

 

[EIC]

I take it that you have never used this product, if you had there wouldnt be much discussion. Im surprised there havent been any assertions from other tocotrienol users. It's obvious there arent many others. It is an obscure supplement and I suppose many think of it as "expensive vitamin E". All I can say is it works for me.

I have used it for at least 4 months now. I like it a lot, I just bothered to finally read the studies cited in the write-up and was shocked to find that they used alpha-tocopherol rather than tocotrienols. It just struck me as a little odd to use studies of synthetic alpha-tocopherol to back-up the benefits of a natural full-spectrum vitamin E supplement. That's all.

 

[Knowbull]

Thanks for clarifying that. Some research is crap, there may have been a typo or other clerical error, in any event; the consensus of the research is that tocotrienols are a great supplement. Dry form is better for assimilation and results. After 4 months use, have you noticed a difference in your skin and hair, muscle tone? Any thing else you can attribute to the T8?

 

[EIC]

After 4 months use, have you noticed a difference in your skin and hair, muscle tone? Any thing else you can attribute to the T8?

Sorry, just saw this. I definitely have noticed positive differences since using Toco-8, in terms of complexion and hair. That said, I am taking it primarily for the benefits on testicular sensitivity and wanted to make sure that I wasn't leaving anything on the table by running Toco-8 alone, especially since alpha-tocopherol (the substance used in the major study PP cites in its write-up) is so damn cheap.

Follow-up question: On another thread (can't find it now), someone mentioned that taking alpha-tocopherol at the same time as Toco-8 could inhibit the assimilation of Toco-8. True? If so, how would that work for someone taking, say, MST's MVP 365?

 

[Knowbull]

Im not familiar with that product, but I recall the thread you're talking about and the interference is minimal just time your dose 3 hours away from any potentially conflicting supp. Mind and Muscle has a similar thread there.

 

[EIC]

Im not familiar with that product, but I recall the thread you're talking about and the interference is minimal just time your dose 3 hours away from any potentially conflicting supp. Mind and Muscle has a similar thread there.

Thanks, dude. I appreciate it. Reps!

 

[Knowbull]

You are welcome! Reps back to you.