Sustain Alpha

[Usf97j4x4]

I am planning on using Nolvadex (20/20/10/10) and Clomid (50/25/25) for PCT for my current cycle.

I happen to have a bottle of Sustain Alpha here but I don't think I really need it with the current PCT I have laid out. Clomid will do a mighty fine job on LH & FSH and I think the addition of the Sustain would be a waste at this point.

My question is if I would get any benefit using Sustain after the PCT I listed above... thoughts?

It would look something like
Nolva 20/20/10/10
Clomid 50/25/25
Sustain 0/0/0/0/5 pumps/4 pumps/3 pumps/3 pumps

My concern is that I might suppress estrogen too long and end up with some sort of rebound effect. I've not ran sustain so I cant gauge it at this point.

If you think this is a bad idea i'll just use the Sustain for PCT on my next cycle.

Im just kicking around some ideas here

Thanks

 

[Steveoph]

Nolva and clomid? Interesting, I heard people ponder running them both.

I don't think Sustain is that harsh of an AI, shouldn't give you rebound IMO. If you're worried about suppressing E for too long, if you start the sustain in the 4th week, you will end quicker. But Eric is the expert seeing as how I haven't used this personally.

 

[Usf97j4x4]

Nolva and clomid? Interesting, I heard people ponder running them both.

I don't think Sustain is that harsh of an AI, shouldn't give you rebound IMO. If you're worried about suppressing E for too long, if you start the sustain in the 4th week, you will end quicker. But Eric is the expert seeing as how I haven't used this personally.

Nolva to wipe out the gyno thats starting

Quick hit of Clomid to boost HPTA

 

[slow-mun]

If it were me, I'd probably use the Sustain Alpha post PCT just to be on the safe side and possibly rebound my "boys" closer to 100%. On the other hand you could also use a cheaper AI for the same purposes and save the Sustain Alpha for another PCT where it would be of more use. Nolva and clomid are a solid combo that is often overlooked by most people who frequent the boards. FWIW, try and dose Nolva in the morning and Clomid in the evening to help minimize day time "floaters."

 

[Trauma1]

If it were me, I'd probably use the Sustain Alpha post PCT just to be on the safe side and possibly rebound my "boys" closer to 100%. On the other hand you could also use a cheaper AI for the same purposes and save the Sustain Alpha for another PCT where it would be of more use. Nolva and clomid are a solid combo that is often overlooked by most people who frequent the boards. FWIW, try and dose Nolva in the morning and Clomid in the evening to help minimize day time "floaters."

Damn good advice right there. Torm would be my choice over nolva though. However, i agree slow, the nolva/clomid combo is often overlooked for an effective PCT.

I know Dr. D is a big fan though.

 

[Usf97j4x4]

If it were me, I'd probably use the Sustain Alpha post PCT just to be on the safe side and possibly rebound my "boys" closer to 100%. On the other hand you could also use a cheaper AI for the same purposes and save the Sustain Alpha for another PCT where it would be of more use. Nolva and clomid are a solid combo that is often overlooked by most people who frequent the boards. FWIW, try and dose Nolva in the morning and Clomid in the evening to help minimize day time "floaters."

Thanks Sol

I was actually going to dose the Nolva at night and the Clomid in the morning so i'll switch it up. I think i'll just save the Sustain like you said, its pricey stuff for that purpose. What are you thoughts about just going 50/25/25/12.5/12.5 with the Clomid?

 

[slow-mun]

Thanks Sol

I was actually going to dose the Nolva at night and the Clomid in the morning so i'll switch it up. I think i'll just save the Sustain like you said, its pricey stuff for that purpose. What are you thoughts about just going 50/25/25/12.5/12.5 with the Clomid?

I've never used it below the 25mg mark. I like the way you originally had it planned. 25mg is a low dose IMHO.

 

[Usf97j4x4]

I've never used it below the 25mg mark. I like the way you originally had it planned. 25mg is a low dose IMHO.

I've seen endo's recommend low dose cycles of it for 5-6 weeks, just not sure if id benefit. Honestly, clomid tastes so damn bad maybe Ill just stick to the original plan :lol:

 

[Eric Potratz]

I see no benefit to using clomid with nolvadex. Nolva is superior in that it is a pure anti-estrogen in the hypothalamus, whereas Clomid is a racemic mixture of anti and pro estrogens. You would be best off just running the Nolva alone.

The Sustain Alpha doesn’t bring estrogen down much at all. Weve finaly found that a major mechanism for its effects is related to 7,8 benzoflavone acting as an opioid antagonist, and blocking the negative feedback loop at the hypothalamus, thus allowing more LH & FSh secretion. This would provide a synergistic effect with the nolva. (or clomid if you so choose)

Torm is superior to Nolva simply for being less liver toxic.

-Pp

 

[Usf97j4x4]

I see no benefit to using clomid with nolvadex. Nolva is superior in that it is a pure anti-estrogen in the hypothalamus, whereas Clomid is a racemic mixture of anti and pro estrogens. You would be best off just running the Nolva alone.

The Sustain Alpha doesn’t bring estrogen down much at all. Weve finaly found that a major mechanism for its effects is related to 7,8 benzoflavone acting as an opioid antagonist, and blocking the negative feedback loop at the hypothalamus, thus allowing more LH & FSh secretion. This would provide a synergistic effect with the nolva. (or clomid if you so choose)

Torm is superior to Nolva simply for being less liver toxic.

-Pp

Interesting... although I disagree with your first statement. Nolva has not been shown to have much of an impact on LH which obviously is key for HPTA restart. There are some studies floating around but they really arent applicable if you get through them. Meanwhile a quick 3 week burst of clomid is usually all it takes to get your endogenous test kicking.

 

[Eric Potratz]

Interesting... although I disagree with your first statement. Nolva has not been shown to have much of an impact on LH which obviously is key for HPTA restart. There are some studies floating around but they really arent applicable if you get through them. Meanwhile a quick 3 week burst of clomid is usually all it takes to get your endogenous test kicking.

Nolva can increase T production 20-30% with 20/mg day. You would have to take twice as much clomid for the same effect.

Clomid can get the job done, but remember, it has a racemic mixture of zuclomiphene and enclomiphene. The estrogenic zuclomiphene lingers in the body for weeks after discontinuing use, which is responsible for the emotional and estrogen “rebound” effect most experience from clomid.
(also why you have to take twice as much)

-Pp

 

[z28man]

Im running the test recovery stack alongside torem for PCT of a 5 week epidrol cycle. I'm only on day 4 but I definitely feel better than torem or nolva solo 4 days in. Libido seems good but the true test obviously is yet to come.

 

[Trauma1]

I see no benefit to using clomid with nolvadex. Nolva is superior in that it is a pure anti-estrogen in the hypothalamus, whereas Clomid is a racemic mixture of anti and pro estrogens. You would be best off just running the Nolva alone.

The Sustain Alpha doesn’t bring estrogen down much at all. Weve finaly found that a major mechanism for its effects is related to 7,8 benzoflavone acting as an opioid antagonist, and blocking the negative feedback loop at the hypothalamus, thus allowing more LH & FSh secretion. This would provide a synergistic effect with the nolva. (or clomid if you so choose)

Torm is superior to Nolva simply for being less liver toxic.

-Pp

Yes sir. In every possible way actually. Lipids, hepatic strain, and side effects.....you name it overall.

 

[thebigt]

Yes sir. In every possible way actually. Lipids, hepatic strain, and side effects.....you name it overall.

problem with research chems is are you sure of what you are getting?

 

[strategicmove]

Nolva can increase T production 20-30% with 20/mg day. You would have to take twice as much clomid for the same effect.

Clomid can get the job done, but remember, it has a racemic mixture of zuclomiphene and enclomiphene. The estrogenic zuclomiphene lingers in the body for weeks after discontinuing use, which is responsible for the emotional and estrogen “rebound” effect most experience from clomid.
(also why you have to take twice as much)

-Pp

Nice post.

 

[hackskii]

Clomid is used by endo doctors to diagnose secondary hypogonadism.
The clomid stimulation test @ 100mg ED for 5 to 7 days doubled LH output and increased FSH by 20% to 50%.

Yes nolvadex is a stronger SERM but for bumpstarting the HPTA is terrible at that.
Clomid is used for fertility in men and also to diagnose secondary hypogonadism, not nolva or any other SERM or AI, clomid is used and for good reason, it is superior to nolva for the restoration of the HPTA.

I find together they work awesome.
Got a study on that apon request.
I have helped many guys with PCT, the only ones that fail, are the ones that didnt listen, and follow directions.