[Harley]

Originally Posted by 3PeteNC

shirts help that much?!?!?! damn i never realized that

Carry-over from a shirt is relative to a lot of things. Some guys get 50-75lbs, some 100 or more, some 200 or more. I know some top shirt benchers who get 300-400+ over their raw bench.

Don't assume that just by throwing on a shirt you're going to add 100 or 200 lbs to your bench. It takes a lot of technique development, and training different kinds of strength (mainly in the lockout) to get a big shirt bench. First time I used one in competition it helped my by about 30lbs.

Also, my raw bench is somewhat lower than it would be if I didn't have the shoulder injuries. The shirt helps neutralize that handicap by restricting and supporting the shoulder joint.

Scott Mendleson has the world record raw bench at 715lbs. The shirted record held by Ryan Kenelly is 1050.

[Hard Knox]

Originally Posted by Harley

I'm 41 and bench around 425 raw and around 650 with a bench shirt. Don't do as much raw anymore because of bad shoulders.

Heavy board straight grip (shoulder width) bench lockouts and paused benches with moderately heavy weights. Also reverse band presses and floor presses have helped me.

Thats impressive! I plan on looking like Paul Teutul when I'm his age so I need to watch the shoulders Ha Ha. Which lifts do you think caused the most damage to your shoulders?

[Harley]

Originally Posted by Hard Knox

Thats impressive! I plan on looking like Paul Teutul when I'm his age so I need to watch the shoulders Ha Ha. Which lifts do you think caused the most damage to your shoulders?

No question in my mind a big part of it was benching. But it was the way I was benching that was the problem, not the exercise itself.

First, years ago I heavily favored bench and other pressing movements and really slacked on the lats, upper back and rear delts. This plays hell with the mechanics of your shoulder (the most unstable joint in your body) and throws them out of balance, causing rotator cuff issues, improper AC and GH articulation, and other things.

Secondly, my form and technique was atrocious. The elbows-out, bar across the upper chest or nipple area places a lot of undue stress on the shoulder joint. People (formerly myself included) do it, at least in part, because they lack development in the areas I mentioned above. The lats, upper back and rear delts provide a proper base and powerful starting strength for the bench press. People who are underdeveloped in these areas tend to bench all front delts, pec and tris. But again over time this shoots the crap out of the shoulders, and makes one more prone to acute injuries as well.

The bench press (raw) should start from a point lower on your torso. Either just below the pecs or at top of the first row of abs. The elbows should not be flared out at 90 degrees at the bottom, but more at a 45 degree angle to your body. Then as you press up about 1/2 way there is a transition point where the elbows should flare out and back a bit to lockout. This is more biomechanically correct. It feels strange at first, but when you learn the technique it actually makes your bench stronger, as well as safer.

[Hard Knox]

Originally Posted by Harley

No question in my mind a big part of it was benching. But it was the way I was benching that was the problem, not the exercise itself.

First, years ago I heavily favored bench and other pressing movements and really slacked on the lats, upper back and rear delts. This plays hell with the mechanics of your shoulder (the most unstable joint in your body) and throws them out of balance, causing rotator cuff issues, improper AC and GH articulation, and other things.

Secondly, my form and technique was atrocious. The elbows-out, bar across the upper chest or nipple area places a lot of undue stress on the shoulder joint. People (formerly myself included) do it, at least in part, because they lack development in the areas I mentioned above. The lats, upper back and rear delts provide a proper base and powerful starting strength for the bench press. People who are underdeveloped in these areas tend to bench all front delts, pec and tris. But again over time this shoots the crap out of the shoulders, and makes one more prone to acute injuries as well.

The bench press (raw) should start from a point lower on your abdomen. Either just below the pecs or at top of the first row of abs. The elbows should not be flared out at 90 degrees at the bottom, but more at a 45 degree angle to your body. Then as you press up about 1/2 way there is a transition point where the elbows should flare out and back a bit to lockout. This is more biomechanically correct. It feels strange at first, but when you learn the technique it actually makes your bench stronger, as well as safer.

That makes sense, I normally hit the lower pec with the bar and normally flat bench doesn't bother my shoulders. In the past though I've noticed that incline barbell, and cable crossovers when using too much weight have caused some inflamation so i cut out incline barbell and now do incline dumbell and don't go so deep on crossovers. Alot of times im hesitant to try new lifts because of the worry about tweaking the rotator cuffs.

[CryingEmo]

IMO I think it comes down to genetics and body structure when it comes to having a big bench. I have a sucky build for pressing, but I'll deadlift a ton.

[Cub]

True, to some extent. I have a huge benching ROM, but I still manage to do what some of the guys with short limbs and big bellies are pressing. My deadlift max is okay (280kg) but should be more considering the way I'm built. I guess, although genetics does play a part, it really does come down to how you train. The human body can adapt to anything.

[3PeteNC]

Originally Posted by Harley

Carry-over from a shirt is relative to a lot of things. Some guys get 50-75lbs, some 100 or more, some 200 or more. I know some top shirt benchers who get 300-400+ over their raw bench.

Don't assume that just by throwing on a shirt you're going to add 100 or 200 lbs to your bench. It takes a lot of technique development, and training different kinds of strength (mainly in the lockout) to get a big shirt bench. First time I used one in competition it helped my by about 30lbs.

Also, my raw bench is somewhat lower than it would be if I didn't have the shoulder injuries. The shirt helps neutralize that handicap by restricting and supporting the shoulder joint.

Scott Mendleson has the world record raw bench at 715lbs. The shirted record held by Ryan Kenelly is 1050.

yea i figured as much, but i didn't think u could get over 100 lbs. thats sick, i used to powerlift and i used some crappy shirts and yea it may have helped by 30lbs if that. what can you do to really utilize the shirt?

[Cub]

Originally Posted by 3PeteNC

what can you do to really utilize the shirt?

Practise! I can get 170lbs out of my shirt. It's almost like a form of security when you're benching. It prevent things being torn (to a degree) and you'll feel safer going heavier.

[Harley]

Originally Posted by 3PeteNC

yea i figured as much, but i didn't think u could get over 100 lbs. thats sick, i used to powerlift and i used some crappy shirts and yea it may have helped by 30lbs if that. what can you do to really utilize the shirt?

Cub nailed it... To hit big in a shirt you have to train, train, train in the shirt. It also helps to hook up with a training partner or two who know what they're doing. Westside and Metal Militia put out some good videos on the subject.

[jas123]

Originally Posted by Harley

Scott Mendleson has the world record raw bench at 715lbs. The shirted record held by Ryan Kenelly is 1050.

Kennelly has hit 1070 recently.

[CryingEmo]

How often do you train heavy, and how many sets?

Every 4 days, 6-8 sets?

Every 7 days, 12-15 sets?

Every 2 days, 3-4 sets?


And do you put light days in between, like 8 sets of 3 for speed?

[Hard Knox]

Originally Posted by jcp2

I hung around 400 for years as i was lifting in a shirt that time. I started to lift for my raw for a few months and put about 20 or 30 lbs on it with a comp pause. I can tell you westside did not work at all. the best thing i did for it was a program i got from a Canadian national thrower. it was basically you start low and do 8 singles that either have to stay at the same weight or increase so my first workout was this 345, 345, 345, 345, 350, 350, 350, 350. Then next week you have to start where you left off, so it was 350. After your 8 singles you do 5x5 at 80% of your last rep. I did these touch and go and the singles paused. I am 6'3 with long arms. My problem is i keep tweaking my pec at the bottom. I was lifting flat footed, but am going back to arching with tucked feet to see if i can take some strain of my pec.


I did that workout for 8 weeks or so and it worked well, i think my last workout i hit 8 singles at 385, 390, 390, 395, 395, 400, 405, 410 and they were all pretty good. thery were all paused.


Accessory work that always helped was pin presses of a few inches off my chest bottom up for sets of 5-8.

Well today is my third day on Havoc and my second day of the above mentioned bench routine. Today I hit 325, 325, 325 325, 330, 330, 330, 330 then 5x5 with 265. All reps were controlled and felt good. The 5x5 with 265 feels noticeably lighter than the first day. So far this seems like a pretty good routine.

[jcp2]

Originally Posted by Hard Knox

Well today is my third day on Havoc and my second day of the above mentioned bench routine. Today I hit 325, 325, 325 325, 330, 330, 330, 330 then 5x5 with 265. All reps were controlled and felt good. The 5x5 with 265 feels noticeably lighter than the first day. So far this seems like a pretty good routine.

I am glad you gave it a try. I would run it for 6-8 weeks or so and see how you do. Keep me updated. Also let me know how the havoc helped, i have a bottle of it laying around.

[Hard Knox]

Originally Posted by jcp2

I am glad you gave it a try. I would run it for 6-8 weeks or so and see how you do. Keep me updated. Also let me know how the havoc helped, i have a bottle of it laying around.

Will do man, Thanks for the tip. Ive noticed when I let go of the bar during 5x5 I can really tell that my entire arms are being worked. You definitely have to be a man to do this workout ha ha.

[jcp2]

Originally Posted by Hard Knox

Will do man, Thanks for the tip. Ive noticed when I let go of the bar during 5x5 I can really tell that my entire arms are being worked. You definitely have to be a man to do this workout ha ha.

The first week was real tough, it actually got a little easier as time went on.