Age versus Strength

Bomber

New member
Awards
0
Got a very important question that concerns bragging rights (haha).

Which is a more significant accomplishment.

For a 22 year old at 160 lbs to bench 325 or for a late starter to lifting to bench 330 at 190 lbs at 41 years old?

Beer is riding on this, so please give me your thoughts!
 
bLacKjAck.

bLacKjAck.

Lift Heavy
Awards
1
  • Established
Got a very important question that concerns bragging rights (haha).

Which is a more significant accomplishment.

For a 22 year old at 160 lbs to bench 325 or for a late starter to lifting to bench 330 at 190 lbs at 41 years old?

Beer is riding on this, so please give me your thoughts!
I'd give the edge to the lightweight....
 
Beelzebub

Beelzebub

Registered User
Awards
1
  • Established
i'd vote for the 41 y/o. almost 20 years older and doing roughly the same weight is pretty damn impressive in my book, especially considering the testosterone level difference. what is the height difference? if any?
 
MEH89

MEH89

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
I would go with the young guy, because he had less time to mature. My dad is like 48 years old, and from working a blue collar job for thirty years he is ALOT stronger than me, and he dosent even workout.There is no telling what kind of work the 40 year old guy does, and has done in his life time.
 
whitedevil74

whitedevil74

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
The win goes to the taller person, not the heavier. Long Arms are a huge minus when it comes to the bench press, a tall person has much less leverage than a short compact person.
 
EasyEJL

EasyEJL

Never enough
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
Got a very important question that concerns bragging rights (haha).

Which is a more significant accomplishment.

For a 22 year old at 160 lbs to bench 325 or for a late starter to lifting to bench 330 at 190 lbs at 41 years old?

Beer is riding on this, so please give me your thoughts!
I'd give it to the old guy, but thats because i'm an old guy :) It depends on how long both of them have been lifting for really, and how much they've improved from where they started.
 

CustomNW

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Height is a big thing, with that said... I'd lean towards the 41yr for what beelez mentioned.
 

Bomber

New member
Awards
0
Here are the details. The 22 y/o is my older brother and he did this back in 88 or 89. He is 5 6 or so and had been lifting heavy but still only weighed 160. I am 5 10 and had always been extremely skinny and weak bordering on the crack addict look. I did not start lifting hard until I was around 28 or so, but I turn 41 this month. But strength gains have never come easy for me. But after a round of cigars and beer and bravado, I decided that I would do what ever it took to break his 325, because I know he will not go up that high again, he hasn't lifted heavy in 15 years. But when I told him of my goal, he said he still claims to be the champ because of his weight versus my weight now (195 19-20% BF). But my argument was that the kudos should go to me because I will have a 20 year disadvantage. So which one wins?

Thanks, and please be honest, unless you side with my brother!
 

LCSULLA

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Side with the older guy on this.
Plus what can he lift now... not what he lifted almost 20yrs ago.
 

Sonny Crockett

New member
Awards
0
You are older and have a longer bench stroke- I say hands down you are the winner. At 5'6" your older brother unracks it and it is almost touching his chest already. There is an age PL formula used at some meets to determine best lifter (not common) but if i can find it I will post.
 

Jstrong20

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
The win goes to the taller person, not the heavier. Long Arms are a huge minus when it comes to the bench press, a tall person has much less leverage than a short compact person.
Thats just something tall guys use as an excuse.lol. The strongest raw bencher in the world is over 6' tall. Scot Mendelson is either 6'1'' or 6'3'' can't remeber. Actually the strongest shirted bencher(ryan kennelly) is also over 6'1''. I promise you can't find a midget to outlift them.lol.

Sorry! but I have to give the advantage to the 160lbs. Your lift is good to but 320 is impressive for 160lbs.
 
Beelzebub

Beelzebub

Registered User
Awards
1
  • Established
Thats just something tall guys use as an excuse.lol.
really? so a longer ROM is the same as a shorter ROM? i'll call the universities and tell them of your discovery. they'll be baffled.
 

Jstrong20

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
really? so a longer ROM is the same as a shorter ROM? i'll call the universities and tell them of your discovery. they'll be baffled.
Well a taller person should be able to hold much more muscle mass than a shorter person. Lee Preist will never have the size of ronnie coleman or markus ruhl. Plus you can look at the records in powerlifting and see not many people under average height hold world records in most weight lifted. Shorter athletes are better at relative strenght and taller, larger athletes have the advantage in absolute strenght. If your looking for in depth info buy Vladimir M. Zatsiorsky's "Science and practice of strength training"
 
Beelzebub

Beelzebub

Registered User
Awards
1
  • Established
true, but all that avoids ROM. the bench press guys over 6' tall don't necessarily have a large wingspan. to go extreme, let's take someone like shaq vs. glenihan. by your reasoning, it's the same. again, this is an extreme case but the point remains.
 

Jstrong20

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Also from my personal build only about 2'' of the bench press is hard. I'm explosive off the chest but stall about 3/4 of the way through when the triceps take over. I'm not very tall at 5'10'' used to be 5'11' before heavy lifting.lol But still I'd think even if I was 3-4'' taller that 2'' wouldn't be stretched that much.
 

Jstrong20

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
true, but all that avoids ROM. the bench press guys over 6' tall don't necessarily have a large wingspan. to go extreme, let's take someone like shaq vs. glenihan. by your reasoning, it's the same. again, this is an extreme case but the point remains.
True someone like shaq may have a problem. I'd agree that extremes may cause a problem. I think the problem is when someone is shaqs height their width will never match their height. What I'm trying to say is they are usually severley disproprtioned. And it is true its more likely to see a short guy with a regular bone structure than it is to see a tall guy that has the bone structure that is proportionate to his height.
 
xtraflossy

xtraflossy

Board Supporter
Awards
1
  • Established
Range of motion can also depend on the grip on the bar.

If both are benching basicly the same weight, I'd give it to the guy who weights 20lbs less.

-lol,.. and depending on how good the beer is, I'd even rub in the fact that a particular someone had a LOT more time to get their bench up :thumbsup:
 

Bomber

New member
Awards
0
You are older and have a longer bench stroke- I say hands down you are the winner. At 5'6" your older brother unracks it and it is almost touching his chest already. There is an age PL formula used at some meets to determine best lifter (not common) but if i can find it I will post.
Any luck finding that formula?

And for those of you that side with my brother, I think all of your theories are just BUNK!!! (Just kidding, lots of good points here.)

Nonetheless, I am still going to claim victory, and just never tell him about this thread so he won't be able to use the counter-arguments against me!
 
Distilled Water

Distilled Water

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
I would go with the young guy, because he had less time to mature. My dad is like 48 years old, and from working a blue collar job for thirty years he is ALOT stronger than me, and he dosent even workout.There is no telling what kind of work the 40 year old guy does, and has done in his life time.
I second you on the old man strength. Why is that? It seems like every guy in their 40's that was athletic at one time in their life that is slightly over weight now is freakisly strong.

When i wreslte with my dad or uncles, who are all in their mid to alte 40's and havent lifted in probably 20years, their alot stronger than some of my friends who I lift with?
 
Sunder

Sunder

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
But when I told him of my goal, he said he still claims to be the champ because of his weight versus my weight now (195 19-20% BF).
Honestly, when it's worded as "The Champ", I have to give the nod clearly to the 41 year old.
Why?
Because he lifted more. Period.
Doesn't matter how much you weigh, a bench press is a bench press, he's just being a sore loser. Sure - he was actually STRONGER with the lift/weight ratio, but that just shouldn't be a factor here - not when we're using the term "The Champ". Sounds like he's just trying to hold onto his glory days. He can argue that he is the technically better bencher pound for pound - but that doesn't make him the champ. A midget can have the absolute best basketball skills, better than anyone else, but that 7 footer is going to win the championship.

In the Olympics, when they do the 100m dash, they give the gold medal to the person who crosses the line first. They don't say, "sure, you crossed first, but that guy behind you is so much shorter, and therefore the winner."

Maybe when they count touchdowns in football, they should give extra points to the smaller guys, or give the Superbowl trophy thing to the team that lost the game, but had a disadvantage.

Besides - you were also heavier because you were fatter. Our organs collect more and more fat every year. It's not enough to even out your weight, but since we're pulling at straws here, lol.

Tie breaker - you both go bench right now - winner takes all. If he complains about his age being a disadvantage...well, what do we do with hypocrites?
 
MEH89

MEH89

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Thats just something tall guys use as an excuse.lol. The strongest raw bencher in the world is over 6' tall. Scot Mendelson is either 6'1'' or 6'3'' can't remeber. Actually the strongest shirted bencher(ryan kennelly) is also over 6'1''. I promise you can't find a midget to outlift them.lol.

Sorry! but I have to give the advantage to the 160lbs. Your lift is good to but 320 is impressive for 160lbs.

I would not call Scot Mendelson the "strongest bencher in the world" far from it. I can find a "midget" his name is Jeremy Hoornstra he benched 700 raw he is like 5'6'' and 240. Scot Mendelson, Ryan Kennelly all use very large arches when they bench, ROM is the name of the game in benching. Just because they all taller men dosent mean they have a large ROM there both 300+. I am welling to bet they have smaller ROM then several people that are shotter than them that are big name benchers in the powerlifting community. But all the tall good benchers(with the exception of a few) are heavy, have large arches, and very small range of motions.So ROM does have a very large part do with benchpressing if it didnt matter than a 6 foot 220 man would have an 1000 lbs bench instead of 800.Mark
 

Jstrong20

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
I don't know how you can argue scott mendelson is not the strongest raw bencher when he holds the raw bench record.lol He did 715 YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. as you can see in the video his arch is not that high. Not to mention who cares if someone taller benches with an arch. A short person can arch and cut down on their range of motiont to. I'm not sure wich 6' 220lb bencher your talking of but are you sure its the long rom that makes him a weaker bencher or the fact that he has over 100lbs less muscle than someone like mendelson. One more thing to mention is it depends on the bencher. I personally bench less of a 2 board than I do off the chest. I'm explosive but have weak triceps so If I don't get that running start I'll stall out.
 

Jstrong20

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
I just searched jeremy hornstra and it seems the best he did in a comp was 615. That is 100lbs less than mendelson. Gym lifts really don't count because mendelson has been said to do 800lbs in the gym raw. By the way I don't think the fact that he is short makes him a good bencher but the fact that the dude is deisel. 5'6'' 240 without being a fat ass is large. Their is a guy on here named nick winters that if I remeber right has hit 675lbs raw and he is not a midget either.lol I'm not sure how tall he is but he appears to be around 6'
 
MEH89

MEH89

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Ive meet Nick Winters he is a pretty tall guy, and very, very wide looks like he would have a hard time getting threw door frames. He has benched 715 for a double in the gym, and ripped his pec. I think his largest bench in comp. is 650 could be wrong though. I would agree that height has nothing to do with Jeremy being one of the greats he benches mid-grip, with no arch.Jeremy biggest comp. bench is 635 at the olympia.I have personally talked to him, and he has told me that he hit 700 in the gym. I have a workout planned with him in the near future maybe I can get some footage. I was just saying alot of the best benchers in the world use the same set up arch, leg drive, touch the bar low,shoulder blades together, and touch low, and then press back over there delts. The only exception is Hoornstra, and he is just a freak there is no other word. Mark
 
MEH89

MEH89

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
I don't know how you can argue scott mendelson is not the strongest raw bencher when he holds the raw bench record.lol He did 715 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bu9csQC45c as you can see in the video his arch is not that high. Not to mention who cares if someone taller benches with an arch. A short person can arch and cut down on their range of motiont to. I'm not sure wich 6' 220lb bencher your talking of but are you sure its the long rom that makes him a weaker bencher or the fact that he has over 100lbs less muscle than someone like mendelson. One more thing to mention is it depends on the bencher. I personally bench less of a 2 board than I do off the chest. I'm explosive but have weak triceps so If I don't get that running start I'll stall out.

There is no argument for the fact that Mendelson is the best because he does have the record. I think in my opinion that the record could easily be broke if some shirted guys changed there training. The 220 name is Matt something cant think of his name for the life of me. I think it is alot of both ROM, and muscle. I will say maybe muscle does have more of an effect, but that still doesnt play down the fact the ROM does play a large roll. I am going to use myshelf as an example, when I bench arched, shoulder blades together, and hit in that perfect grove, I add like 60 pounds to my bench raw. So my muscle mass is not changing due to the fact if my back is flat or not, so it has to play a large roll.I also am weaker of a 2 board than off the chest, I think almost everyone is, In my opinion its harder because it puts you at pushing disadvantage, you dont get the negitive of the downward movment. So I think it ROM is a large part but everyone is different, some may get a large carry over some not. I do think alot of tall guys use that as a cop out to not man up, and bench heavy. But whatever. Mark
 
EctoBuff

EctoBuff

New member
Awards
0
I would go with the young guy, because he had less time to mature. My dad is like 48 years old, and from working a blue collar job for thirty years he is ALOT stronger than me, and he dosent even workout.There is no telling what kind of work the 40 year old guy does, and has done in his life time.
totaly agree with meh89 also, most of the time you see men working out, their also not trying to put **** loads of weight up like us yunger guys are.
 
pistonpump

pistonpump

Banned
Awards
2
  • Legend!
  • Established
i gotta go with the older guy on this one. The older guy started later (he hasnt been working on this for the past 20yrs now has he?) His muscle mass is about the same as the 22 yo. He is taller and i dont care but a normal lifter will not use all these advanced tactics to bench more so this will negate his lift and having a longer ROM he has to push a longer period of time, working harder. Less testosterone too. And lastly like Sunder said, he did bench more. Whether he weighed more or not he still did more, period.
 

Eddie White

New member
Awards
0
I've been lifting for more years than most of you have been alive. I have not yet found the age where it has that much to do with it but I suspect it is somewhere in the mid to late sixties. I have continued to improve every year so I think training diet, etc. have much more to do with it plus your genetic ability to lift in certain ways. The bench press in my opinion is a poor example of overall body strength. I am much more interested in what a person can total over all three lifts. But in answer to your question I give the nod to the lighter guy. That's a pretty nice RAW bench (I assume) for a 160 pounder at any age. Besides 41 is certainly not old enough to be a factor.
 
smoundzou

smoundzou

New member
Awards
0
Agree..

I've been lifting for more years than most of you have been alive. I have not yet found the age where it has that much to do with it but I suspect it is somewhere in the mid to late sixties. I have continued to improve every year so I think training diet, etc. have much more to do with it plus your genetic ability to lift in certain ways. The bench press in my opinion is a poor example of overall body strength. I am much more interested in what a person can total over all three lifts. But in answer to your question I give the nod to the lighter guy. That's a pretty nice RAW bench (I assume) for a 160 pounder at any age. Besides 41 is certainly not old enough to be a factor.
 
LaGrange26

LaGrange26

New member
Awards
0
The older guy wins.. he benched more thats all there is to it. Pound for pound the 20 year old is obv stronger but that isnt what is being compaired here
 
smoundzou

smoundzou

New member
Awards
0
I would think pound for pound is more of a significant accomplishment other than just comparing pure weight.. That was the questions.. which is a more of a significant accomplishment?

The lighter guy has made more of a significant accomplishment than the older..

Young Guy: 160lbs Bench 325lbs=203% of BW
Old Guy: 190lbs Bench 330lbs= 173% of BW

If the old guy's weight remains at 190 he would need to bench approximatly 388lbs or 204% of his body weight in order to have a more significant lift..

Which is more significant? Obviously the man benching 203% of his bodyweight..

But with that said.. benching 330lbs and clocking in a 190 isn't too shabby.. and you certainly deserve bragging rights..




The older guy wins.. he benched more thats all there is to it. Pound for pound the 20 year old is obv stronger but that isnt what is being compaired here
 

alcopower

New member
Awards
0
Hmm, thought Id chime in here for my first post...
Since when is 41 old? Last year I was benching
in the high 200s, after a couple years layoff from
all weight training, at 38, now IM 39 and just tripled
350 in my last workout, and looking for 385-400
by thanksgiving. Sure, Im a fat ****er, at 260ish,
but my age is not slowing my gains down one bit.
 
nemo

nemo

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Older fellow,... young guys can throw weight around and have higher test levels,.. not to mention the man started late.
 

alcopower

New member
Awards
0
yeah that's from 275 to 375 plus (not sure), in less than a year without steroids and no gain in BW... still no comments? typical narrowminded idiots.
 
bigpapa

bigpapa

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
my dad started lifting when he was 16. he's now 45. i am 21. there was a time when i was younger and just starting out he was benching in the 400's during our workouts (he holds the CT state natural record in his weight class). there was a point when we were then even, and now i have over taken him. just age.
 

Similar threads


Top