True measure of strength??
- 05-04-2006, 12:36 PM
True measure of strength??
Why is it, when someone wants to know how strong you are they ask how much can you bench? Or if looking at this forum, it's always about the Bench or sometimes even the squat, then the argument turns to gear. This guy squatted 1200+ but with a canvas suit and did he go deep enough, etc etc. It's all starting to annoy me, every board is pretty much the same and we all know that it's extremely hard to measure who's the biggest badest due to multiple feds, rules etc.
What about the deadlift? If someone can pick up 900lbs, isn't that a more accurate picture of power vs a momentum movement like the squat? I mean it doesn't matter if his form sucks or if he uses a suit, or what ever, a deadlift is a deadlift. If someone can stand up with a grand he's the man and there is nothing to question, he's one strong mofo.
I propose all strength comparisons be changed to the deadlift! It will give us much less to argue over and provide a much clearer picture of true power
Ok I'm done I just had to get that off my chest and I couldn't bench it off.
- 05-04-2006, 01:01 PM
I would like to refute this due to my deadlift sucking at the moment
but in reality, you should take in account how much someone weighs compared to the weight they are pulling
- 05-04-2006, 01:06 PM
I agree but we always seem to focus on the weight lifted, Coan broke 1000 squat at 235lbs, to me that was the biggest squat 4x body weight holy ****e!
05-04-2006, 01:08 PM
Yeah, thats pretty sick. I'm not even at 2x yet, close, but not yet.Originally Posted by Basso
05-04-2006, 01:22 PM
that's why when we started teamsniffy we dont allow bashing of anyone's liftsOriginally Posted by Basso
05-04-2006, 01:26 PM
Sounds good to me Basso!! My dead is much better than my squat or bench!
05-04-2006, 01:31 PM
I think a true measure of power personally would be the Olympic lifts since they are more a true measure of strength and speed, jmo. But as far as true strength deadlift is certainly a good measurement. The thing is everyone is different and has certain lifts that they exceed at.
05-04-2006, 01:42 PM
olys are super technical, poor choice imoOriginally Posted by ryansm
05-04-2006, 01:45 PM
Yes, poor choice for a novice, but in the long run a better measure of power.
05-04-2006, 04:49 PM
Oly's a good choice for those who lift that style, the reason I like the deadlift is that anybody can pick up a bar. (plus I suck at Oly lifts )
05-04-2006, 04:58 PM
Weight lifting and olympic lifting are kinda different too. Maybe not apples and oranges different, but red apples and green apples...lol
Weight lifting has a speed component to it, hence the power generated and forces against the ground.
Power lifting doesn't have the speed component. You can do a slow deadlift, but you can't do a slow clean and jerk.
Personally I think the world class olympic lifters are pretty amazing! Wish I was better at those lifts.
05-04-2006, 07:42 PM
And everybody has a diffrent idea about strength. Ask a special ops guy and he'll say how far and fast can I hump a 60lbs ruck cross country.
Ask an Oly lifter you get snatch and C&J
Ask a Pler some will say Squat and some will say deads.
Its all on who you ask.
05-04-2006, 08:24 PM
I was just having this conversation today. I've gotten a teacher I work with to hit the gym at school with me. Second time in there, some jackass kid asked him how much he benches. He feels stupid b/c he is weak (ultra-noob). I tell him to ignore the kids and do his thing, and added that the DL is an infinitely better example than bench. What is the obsession with how much you can push off your chest laying supine on a bench????
05-05-2006, 07:34 AM
The bench press is definitely a good measure of total upper body strength, here is the problem I have with it.
1. Joker A can bench 350lbs has 18" arms and 17" thighs(who cares what you can bench if you can barely support your upper body)
2. Inconsistency in rules, you have the gym lift which you always assume is touch and go, hopefully ass stays on the bench etc. But when comparing official BPs you have to really look at what fed, gear, and other rules where used.
I guess I was a little annoyed yesterday (hence this thread) this kid asked me if I could give him some pointers on his bench. He's a big kid, 6'2"ish around 230lbs probably 23yrs old, and he can throw some bench presses around, I've seen him bouncing 365 for triples. Anyway I tried to tell him that BPing every day isn't going to help him get planted on the bench, stop bouncing start DLing etc Anyway he just wants his bench to get bigger so I was wasting my time, poor kids gonna end up breaking a rib or two eventually.
See here I go again, ranting!
05-05-2006, 11:24 AM
that's the beauty of an ipod, put in the earphones and most people leave you alone, and when they do ask for advice or you give it to them because it hurts just looking at them, 9 out of 10 times they never follow what you say anywayOriginally Posted by Basso
05-05-2006, 11:55 AM
LoL, I haven't been using my iPod since I've had a partner, it will be nice to not have a partner (moving) and workout with my old iPod partner, you're right people do not bother you nearly as much, plus I don't hear all the BS the PTs are handing out (that really makes me sick to my stomach!)Originally Posted by guyfromkop2
05-05-2006, 12:40 PM
to answer the original question, deadlift isn't that well known among the general population of lifters. bench and squat are, bench a lot more well known due to high school gyms promoting it from year to year. i've had to show many a lifter how to deadlift because they've never heard of it. noone has ever asked me how to bench or squat, the movement is the in the name itself.
JMO, of course.
05-05-2006, 02:20 PM
yet another reason i like working out at a hardcore gymOriginally Posted by Basso
05-05-2006, 02:53 PM
Someday Even if I have to build it myself!Originally Posted by guyfromkop2
05-05-2006, 02:57 PM
a deadlift is a deadlift except when it's a deadlift with (or without) straps.
05-05-2006, 03:08 PM
Pullups are also a great measure of upper body strength. People associate them with high reps, but slap on some 45s and they are deadly.
05-06-2006, 10:51 AM
I agree. I maxed out on pull ups once, as retarded of a concept as that sounds, and cranked out 4 reps with 90lbs in weight attached. It's pretty neat to think that If I weighed 270lbs at the same strength level I'm at now, I could still crank out 4 pull ups. I know some PL'ers in the 230lb range that need to use bands for pull ups, which is sad IMO.Originally Posted by Beowulf
05-06-2006, 02:46 PM
05-06-2006, 02:55 PM
How about the not-so-popular pullovers?
05-06-2006, 03:02 PM
http://powerliftingstore.com/index.php?cPath=16_17Originally Posted by Jayhawkk
They're like giant elastics, the tension increases as you stretch them out, or you can set them up backwards to help you get the weight off the floor in a deadlift.
05-06-2006, 03:05 PM
I love these at the end of a back workout, I take a dip belt and attach band to the pullup bar to the belt, that way instead of lifting my fat 250lb arse, I can do high reps at around 150! Love those weighted pullups to, I like to do one or the other, depending on the work out.Originally Posted by Jayhawkk
I still think the deadlift is the ultimate test though, Core, legs, back, upperbody strength even grip are all part of the lift. When I was a youngster and started deadlifting even my benchpress went up.
05-06-2006, 03:08 PM
Ahh, thanks guys. I've never seen them used. Would definately help in finishing up a routine that you couldn't do at that weight otherwise.
05-06-2006, 03:41 PM
I think you have to do all three. Deadlift, Benchpress, Squat. Someone can spend all their time in the gym just doing one thing and get really strong at that and suck at everything else. I know you've seen those guys.
05-06-2006, 09:34 PM
All 3 are good measures of strength, but Deadlift has to be the best overall measure of strength. Then again body types play a huge role in deadlifting.
05-14-2006, 09:01 PM
I like to say deads since they are my strong suit Nowadays I'm doing around 500 pounds with no straps... perhaps a bit more since I repped 405 lbs for 10 reps last week no straps.
I'm gifted on deads... I don't bench a whole, 350 pounds is my lifetime best and it stays around 275 pounds or so nowadays since my shoulders HATE benching. I also tend to avoid free weight squats nowadays as well since my genetics are catching up and my left knee has started to bother me on and off (brother and dad have had double knee surgery) -- machine "squat press" bothers it alot less and actually keeps it much more mobile.
Pull-Ups I think are a good measure for upper body... there is a dude at my gym who does pull-ups with so much force it looks like he's trying to pull himself over the bar -- and he'll do 20+ reps a set like this. I have also never seen anyone else push 120 pound dummbbells on a bench so FAST and under control -- it's sick. He's around 200 pounds and scares the **** out of me I'd take on a guy 100 pounds heavier than him any day. I haven't seen him dead lift so I'll pretend I have him beat on that
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