Smith Rack Deadlift form

dsl

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I did these in the gym the other day rather than actual deadlifts and I kinda like them. However, i am not quite sure about my form...here's how I do them:

I start a couple of inches below my kneecap and then extend up...seems simple enough, right? Well I feel as though I'm about to break in half and I'm not sure if I should feel it more in my lower back or in my hamstrings or both. Any thoughts?

Oh, I last time I did regular deads for 3 sets of 8 at 185, 245, 225. This time I did the smith deads for 225, 315, 315 x 8. I felt hella strong, too bad I was only moving the weight a few inches...lol.
 
CRUNCH

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Tough to say without seeing you do them. The important things are your back staying straight, and that your extending everything at the same time (as in your legs going straight first then back = bad form). Deads in and of themselves involve everything around your hips: hams, erectors, glutes, etc... so you're going to feel them in all those places.

Never thought to do them in a smith before, maybe will give it a try next back day, see what they feel like!
 
wideguy

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Not trying to be a jerk but I wouldn't EVER do DL's in the smith machine unless I had no other choice. I'm going to make the assumption that you guys know the reasons behind this, so sorry to chime in with negativity. The smith machine is kind of a pet peeve of mine, especially if free wieghts are available.
 
CRUNCH

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Oh I agree Wideguy, FWs rule by far. I'm just not going to completely knock the smith deads mentioned until I at least try them and see what they feel like.

I do my squats in a smith, only because I do some competing in strongman comps. Whenever we have a squat event, it's in some kind of machine aparatus, so smith squats is the only way to really train for that event.
 

dsl

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i wouldn't normally use a smith machine, but the university gym doesn't have a rack of any sort. Plus, I've been told on numerous occasions to not do deads since i'm not supposed to remove the bars from the benches. I guess they think I'll tear up the floor. Essentially, if I want to do rack deads I have to use the smith machine.
 

guyfromkop2

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smith machine and deadlifts should never be put in the same sentence, ever.

do you have a power rack or squat rack? if so just do them in there
 
wideguy

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WOW! That sounds like the gym at my college. Pretty decent size school (Stockton), nice swimming pool, track, bb court, volleyball, ect. ect. The weight room is in this cramped little non ventilated room ABOVE A CLASS ROOM. So the slightest banging of a weight = a proff. coming up to give you a earfull. I'm not a real weight dropper though (unless I'm dl'ing or shrugging or something happens that I need a power rack) so I got away with it. Still a truly unthoughtout and sucky gym set up.

I dont' know how heavy yours going/how heavy the dumbells in the gym are but you could consider doing some of the following:

Stiff legged db dead
DB good mornings
Lunges
Step Ups

IMO they'd all probably be better choices then deads on the smith.

Also I've recently come across a technique that CT pointed out to make the lying leg curl machine ALOT more useful (IMO). I think they're called Giordona leg curls. You basically do regular lying leg curls but you hold your upper body/torso off the bench (try to lock your arms out like you where at the top of a pushup off the bench) while in that position perform your leg curls. I did them last night and NEVER felt more hamstring activation from doing leg curls in my life. BTW, it seems to really cut the amout of weight one can use. I'm normally good for 140-160 lbs for 3 sets of 10-12 after doing heavey rack pulls. Last night I had to drop down to 90 and it HURT BADD!
 

CHAPS

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Having your feet in a pronated position will cause more hamstring activation on leg curls.
 
wideguy

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Pronated? I thought is was plantar flexion and dorsi-flexion. Maybe I'm wrong? Eitherway what I think you're trying to say is that you get more hamstring activation if you point your toes when performing leg curls. Right?
 

guyfromkop2

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Pronated? I thought is was plantar flexion and dorsi-flexion. Maybe I'm wrong? Eitherway what I think you're trying to say is that you get more hamstring activation if you point your toes when performing leg curls. Right?
huh?
 
CRUNCH

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I think he means plantar flexion, that takes the gastroc out of play as a knee flexor.
 
wideguy

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Are you joking around?

It's late and I'm slow as it is. Or do you not know what the terms I might have mispelled mean?

Kind of irrellevant considering how much you outlift me by though ;-)
 

powerfiend

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i wouldn't normally use a smith machine, but the university gym doesn't have a rack of any sort. Plus, I've been told on numerous occasions to not do deads since i'm not supposed to remove the bars from the benches.
Sound's like the gym here at Oregon State University... My advice is to get the hell out of the university gym and go join a gym off campus. Call all the local gyms and ask if they have platforms, hopefully one will. It's what I did and luckly I found a really great gym here.
 

dsl

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Sound's like the gym here at Oregon State University... My advice is to get the hell out of the university gym and go join a gym off campus. Call all the local gyms and ask if they have platforms, hopefully one will. It's what I did and luckly I found a really great gym here.

I would but it's the typical college story--I can't afford to pay for another gym when I have a pretty decent gym here (they just don't have any racks) and I can somewhat get away with doing sl deads and deadlifts, but it is highly frownded on.
 

powerfiend

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It does suck having to pay for a membership... especially when you have to pay for tuition and the darn textbooks. They can frown all they want on the deadlifts, but if they try to kick you out just throw the loaded barbell at them:twisted:

Good luck with your training
 

dsl

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if they try to kick you out just throw the loaded barbell at them:twisted:

Good luck with your training


:rofl:yeah, I'll laugh when the skinny pricks try to catch a couple hundred pounds and drop like a rock
 

guyfromkop2

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drop all the big words because when it's you and the bar they dont mean a damn thing, and dsl, i'm sure you can find a gym at your school that will let you do regular deadlifts, i'll bet the football team does em.
 
wideguy

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Aww c'mon guy big words are fun!

While I suspect I know the answer, do you ever use anthing other then compound free weight movements for your hams/hipflexors, or anywhere else?
 

dsl

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drop all the big words because when it's you and the bar they dont mean a damn thing, and dsl, i'm sure you can find a gym at your school that will let you do regular deadlifts, i'll bet the football team does em.

no can do...the football team does have their own gym, but us normal folk aren't allowed in there.:sad:
 

guyfromkop2

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that sucks man, are you even allowed to put the bar on the ground at all?
 

guyfromkop2

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Aww c'mon guy big words are fun!

While I suspect I know the answer, do you ever use anthing other then compound free weight movements for your hams/hipflexors, or anywhere else?
big words dont lift the bar for you :D

and i use free weights/bands/chains for all my compound movements. i use some machines. but for the big stuff it's free weights all the way.

i'm not saying i hate machines, i just hate smith machines :D why do something on a machine when you can do it with free weights? you train your stabelizer muscles when you use free weights. plus how many powerlifters do their whole workouts on machines?
 

dsl

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that sucks man, are you even allowed to put the bar on the ground at all?


No not really, but I do anyways. I have several variations of a workout plan that Bobo has given me, but I was just trying something new to see if I would like it.

I don't actually use machines that much at all, but I have to do smith squats. I can already hear guyfromkop yelling:aargh:, but it's the best I can do and Bobo didn't seem to think it would be that big of a deal so I have stuck with it.
 
wideguy

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You could try one legged squats with dumbells.

I knew what you're going to say guy, but my main interest aren't quite the same as you. Stil the paths to get there are similar, just a little more of this and a little less of that for a longer portion of time in you're training career.

Another silly question, do you have a home gym or have a hardcore pl'ing gym or do you just bring your wn chains and bands?
 

guyfromkop2

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No not really, but I do anyways. I have several variations of a workout plan that Bobo has given me, but I was just trying something new to see if I would like it.

I don't actually use machines that much at all, but I have to do smith squats. I can already hear guyfromkop yelling:aargh:, but it's the best I can do and Bobo didn't seem to think it would be that big of a deal so I have stuck with it.
smith and squat should never go together, and you dont even have anywhere you can squat in that gym?
 

guyfromkop2

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You could try one legged squats with dumbells.

I knew what you're going to say guy, but my main interest aren't quite the same as you. Stil the paths to get there are similar, just a little more of this and a little less of that for a longer portion of time in you're training career.

Another silly question, do you have a home gym or have a hardcore pl'ing gym or do you just bring your wn chains and bands?
i use my own bands, but i workout at a hardcore powerlifting/olympic/strongman gym. it's owned by a strongman and celtic games competitor, the only thing we dont have is a monolift
 
wideguy

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F'in A Cotton! F'in A!!

That's a nice set up bro. Imagine it helps out alot. Any input on what I've been suggesting to the stuggling college student, in terms of decent lifts to perform that meet the ****ty criterion he's laid out with his gym?
 
somewhatgifted

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try bringing in something soft to put under the plates when you dead, id do em anyway but just be quiet and dont draw any negative attention on yourself. If they ***** then say hey im not ruining the floor and im not disturbing others and i dont think they have any rational reasoning to say no anymore. If they do its cause they are ego maniacal and dont respect student becaus ethey are above you ( I hate that attitude). Good luck
 

guyfromkop2

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i highly doubt they dont have some sort of power/squat rack in the corner. 99% of gyms i've been to have them. and if that one doesnt, go to another gym on campus, someone is bound to have it. and one legged squats are ok i guess, i've never done them, but nothing and i mean nothing replaces barbell squats.

and good call somewhatgifted.
 
CRUNCH

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i use my own bands, but i workout at a hardcore powerlifting/olympic/strongman gym. it's owned by a strongman and celtic games competitor, the only thing we dont have is a monolift
That sounds a tad familiar, you aren't in the Boston area are ya??
 
CRUNCH

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Gotcha! Your gym sounds (and looks by your avatar), like a great place to train!
 
Basso

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smith machine and deadlifts should never be put in the same sentence, ever.

do you have a power rack or squat rack? if so just do them in there
LoL, oh man are you correct, that is a recipe for disaster!

Actually I don't think smith machine and weight room go together very well either jmho
 
somewhatgifted

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smith and squat should never go together, and you dont even have anywhere you can squat in that gym?
I agree the smith takes you out of your natural plane of movement, that is why you back hurts, the angles are all wrong. When you do deads it isnt straight up and down. Now smith bench presses take you out of your plane, but you have to remember your spine and the shoulder ball and socket joints differ greatly.
 

guyfromkop2

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Gotcha! Your gym sounds (and looks by your avatar), like a great place to train!
best decision i ever made to start going there. i drive 30-45 min but i dont care at all
 
Jayhawkk

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Smith machine, one legged squats are pretty good. Light weight movemnt that hasn't bothered me yet and I have back injuries i have to watch for.
 
wideguy

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Yeah they're not bad but you'd get more stabilizer work out of doing them with dumbells. So based on what's available you might wanna do 1 legged dumbells squats (they're pretty hard imo so you won't need nearly as much weight as a regular barbell squat), then do you last set in the smith to not have to worrry about balancing and really focus on the full ROM and try and get a nice pump.
 
Jayhawkk

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Dunno about him but i'm sure as hell not :) Seen too many powerlifters with serious injuries for me to go that route. Fun to watch the Powerlifting comps though.


...Just curious but I suppose as a power lifter you don't want a pump?
 

guyfromkop2

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Dunno about him but i'm sure as hell not :) Seen too many powerlifters with serious injuries for me to go that route. Fun to watch the Powerlifting comps though.


...Just curious but I suppose as a power lifter you don't want a pump?
pump may look pretty and all, but it doesnt help you lift the bar :D
 
Basso

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Yeah they're not bad but you'd get more stabilizer work out of doing them with dumbells. So based on what's available you might wanna do 1 legged dumbells squats (they're pretty hard imo so you won't need nearly as much weight as a regular barbell squat), then do you last set in the smith to not have to worrry about balancing and really focus on the full ROM and try and get a nice pump.
Doesn't it take twice as long to do them with only one leg?:think:
 
wideguy

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Yup but it also allows you to work on your weaker leg, and focus on any imbalances you might have. On top of that in this instance I'm merely suggesting them based on the fact that our original poster has the dilema of not having a power/squat rack. Which obviously blows, no matter what type of lifter you are.

BTW, while it's Definitely not the focus of a Pl's routine. Training that illicits "the pump" IMO does have it's place to fully develop the muscle from both the BB's or PL's standpoint. Or not in your opinion guy?
 

guyfromkop2

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BTW, while it's Definitely not the focus of a Pl's routine. Training that illicits "the pump" IMO does have it's place to fully develop the muscle from both the BB's or PL's standpoint. Or not in your opinion guy?
no, in all the stuff i'ver read, and all the big time plers i've talked to, they dont train for the pump, in fact i know a couple guys that would be pissing there pants right now talking about the pump, it's nice when it's a side effect, but it's never one of the main reasons for doing an excersize. getting shredded and muscles out the wazoo is just a nice biproduct :D
 

guyfromkop2

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why be a guy who's big but weak? why not be a guy who's big and strong as a bull? ever see the 275 and under guys in powerlifting? most of them could step on a stage and wiin bbing contests
 

dsl

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why be a guy who's big but weak? why not be a guy who's big and strong as a bull? ever see the 275 and under guys in powerlifting? most of them could step on a stage and wiin bbing contests

I have thought about training for strength, but at this point in my life I don't feel the need to be super strong. I don't think it would benefit me as a clinical psychologist either. I just want more size rather than strength.

Don't get me wrong, I respect powerlifter's. Actually my aunt and uncle used to compete at the bench press competitions and I believe that my aunt has actually set a national record or two. She scares me:run:
 
Basso

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I don't understand why anyone would want to be big and not strong? Aern't you afraid some punk with a "little guy complex" is gonna beat the livin **** out of you?

Functional muscle seems like a worthy cause, pretty muscle, well, why?
 
Jayhawkk

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There's a misconception that if you have big muscles but aren't a power lfiter you're going to be weak. The main reason why BBr's, in my opinion, come off as weak in a lot of power lifting type of lifts is because of lack of proper form and in many cases having the joints and muscles used to those types of movements.

Those who think the ripped 19 inch arms are weak are misleading themselves. I mean I can bench over 400 which may be weak compared to a strongman lifter hitting upwards of 1k but you're still going to be stronger than a mjaority of folks you run into.

Edit:Wanted to add it's the same for those people who think to be a power lifter you have to be fat.
 

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