Powerlifting diet

[SweetLou321]

Im curious how you guys in the power game diet. Ive been following laynes diet of 4-5 meals a day 4-5 hrs apart with 5g bcaa between. this only allows me 4 meals a day bc of my schedule. How do you guys do it? Tips and advice? Am i wasting my time dieting the way i am.

 

[Rodja]

I guess it depends which school of thought you want to hear. The old school Louie Simmons route is that everything is pretty much game on when it comes to food selection. I will say that from personal experience that expanding my diet to include more "dirty" foods has helped my strength levels immensely. The extra bloat goes a long way for the joints and you'll need the calories to fuel the training and to keep gaining mass. You really have to find the middle road where you're eating relatively clean, but still get in plenty of calories.

 

[T-Bone]

Im curious how you guys in the power game diet. Ive been following laynes diet of 4-5 meals a day 4-5 hrs apart with 5g bcaa between. this only allows me 4 meals a day bc of my schedule. How do you guys do it? Tips and advice? Am i wasting my time dieting the way i am.

If its working for you than you are not wasting your time. If its not than try something else.

 

[SweetLou321]

Well it "works" but im gettin the same results I did without the bcaa method at the same calorie level. Also this is a lil less flexible bc it in 4-5 hr windows. When before i just made sure i got my cals and macros in, in 5 seperate sittings 2-5 hrs apart depending on schedule. I was also curious what competitive lifters do. Thanks rodja, ill try mixing some dirty foods in with my cleaner foods. Cant hurt.

 

[GeekPoop]

i eat like a typical BBer but one of my friends eats crap. like gummy bears n goldfish and some hamburger gravy. he can put most ppl to shame w his lifts for being so light, but he doesnt gain any mass

 

[SweetLou321]

typical bber as in?

 

[GeekPoop]

counting macros an meals spaced throughout the day

 

[Torobestia]

Lol, the mention of "the bloat" reminds me of Dave tate's article on the subject. Everyone should read that for some good jokes (though depending on how old it is, it may actually have been serious!).

On topic, the diet of a powerlifter is inherently little different than of a bodybuilder. Differences might include substantially higher protein (1.4x or your not gonna see the right kind of gains), and hitting up fish oil like it's oxygen. Otherwise, it is not necessary to be really bulky or maintain a really high bf, so a much higher calorie surplus is not always called for.

 

[SweetLou321]

Well i believe a lil extra cals or dirty cals before a big day can help. But i agree. Ive been dieting no different then i did for bbing and im doing great. Just wanted others opinions as well

 

[Gutterpump]

Most of the PL's I know eat like crap and don't grow or have too much bloat.

I haven't been powerlifting long, and I'm still stuck between worlds, but I'm eating the same as before (BB'ing diet) but with more BCAA's + EAA's throughout the day, and more stuff for my joints. Maybe a little dirtier when I feel I need to. If I'm not recovering fast enough I just eat more. Sometimes that means getting a lil dirty. But I definitely do and will keep eating like a BB'er, and will stay on top of conditioning. There are a lot of BB'ers who powerlift and lift heavy ass weights. I don't think it's necessary to eat dirty, that's just the lazy way. Most PL's I meet couldn't give two $hits about having a dialed in diet, because they say it's too much work.

 

[Gutterpump]

Well i believe a lil extra cals or dirty cals before a big day can help. But i agree. Ive been dieting no different then i did for bbing and im doing great. Just wanted others opinions as well

dude... supercarb! lol.. no need to go dirty haha

 

[Gutterpump]

I recently read (can't remember the source, some famous powerlifting guy), this guy suggested - for people trying to gain weight, to switch to 2 HUGE meals per day... to slow down the metabolism, which will obviously help gain weight.... but in an extremely unhealthy way - more fat than lean mass, less protein over the course of the day to aid recovery, less energy, etc...

It's just common sense that eating many times per day will keep a steady stream of nitrogen into your muscle and aid recovery. I must eat over 6 small meals plus bcaa's + eaa's over the day. 2 of the meals are larger than the others, 2 hours pre-workout and the post workout meal. Eat to recover and be healthy, train for strength.

 

[Menoth]

I don't really think of myself as a powerlifter, but I was working up to it before I enlisted in the Army and got sent to Kentucky to lose my sick (for a novice) squat and deadlift. I ate pretty much constantly throughout the day and the vast majority of it was pretty clean. I don't mean a little meal at 3 pm and then a snack a couple hours later, either. It was a handful of nuts here and then wander off to drink some of a homemade weight gainer and then fifteen minutes later polish off a tuna sandwich then go a half hour before I'd eat an apple and banana with peanut butter... stuff like that. Most days I operated like that, because I was lucky to have a job that allowed it, and the gains were great. My weight held pretty constant and my lifts steadily went up. The only times I really gorged were right away in the morning and right after a workout, at which point I'd stuff myself with clean carbs and protien and go to bed. Had to love working night shift.

 

[Steelwolf]

I eat very clean and find I perform better eating a clean diet than one filled with ****. The less clean my diet the worse I perform. Even after a cheat meal (unless I am glyocgen depleted)

 

[SweetLou321]

You tell me where to buy supercarb and i will, ive wanted it for ages.

 

[Rodja]

You tell me where to buy supercarb and i will, ive wanted it for ages.

The last time SC was in production by Avant was in Summer '09. Palatinose may still be around, but SC is looooong gone.

 

[SweetLou321]

I know, thats why i posted it. Idk if i trust the palantinose ive found elsewhere since zima carb turned out to be fake.

 

[Gutterpump]

The last time SC was in production by Avant was in Summer '09. Palatinose may still be around, but SC is looooong gone.

I was so happy when I was doing some apartment cleaning, went through an old stash I had in a spare closet and there was a full large container of it =O still as good as new

How come noone makes this stuff anymore?

I also came across some bottles of CEL's Phera and noticed it's not being sold anymore. Not sure if I trust the sides from it though too, but have only read positive things. I bought them a while ago and never tried it.

 

[Gutterpump]

I eat very clean and find I perform better eating a clean diet than one filled with ****. The less clean my diet the worse I perform. Even after a cheat meal (unless I am glyocgen depleted)

cheat meals put me to sleep, especially when glycogen depleted :burger: It's the carb coma

 

[SemiBulimic]

I recently read (can't remember the source, some famous powerlifting guy), this guy suggested - for people trying to gain weight, to switch to 2 HUGE meals per day... to slow down the metabolism, which will obviously help gain weight.... but in an extremely unhealthy way - more fat than lean mass, less protein over the course of the day to aid recovery, less energy, etc...

It's just common sense that eating many times per day will keep a steady stream of nitrogen into your muscle and aid recovery. I must eat over 6 small meals plus bcaa's + eaa's over the day. 2 of the meals are larger than the others, 2 hours pre-workout and the post workout meal. Eat to recover and be healthy, train for strength.

The 6 meals a day myth has long been debunked. I train for powerlifting and have switched over to a leangains style of eating and I have got stronger at a lower bodyweight and bf % and my recover is just as good as it was on more meals a day.

 

[Gutterpump]

I've been transitioning over to more of a lean gains diet too, but still eat more than 3 meals per day. Leangains style / paleo substance with more of a dietary focus on nutrient partitioning.

If you eat fewer meals, your calories go up each meal (depending on your goals). If your cals are excessive, they go to waste. Personally I don't like to take in excessive amounts of cals over each meal, I don't want to gain excess fat, so spreading out your cals makes more sense when trying to gain lean mass (or even lose fat). I work in higher cals / carbs around workouts but then still have several smaller meals, and less in the morning, sometimes only BCAAs.

 

[SemiBulimic]

It doesn't matter how many meals you have, if you are within your macros for the day you won't put on fat. I can only say from personal experience that no other eating plan has given me the results I am experiencing now. Initially it was hard getting in so many kcals in a meal but I am used to it now. Studies have proven that there is no difference between 3 and 6 meals a day in terms of recomping.

 

[SweetLou321]

I agree with the lean gains thing.
My two fav dieting styles are laynes way of 4-5 meals a day of 4-6 hrs apart with bcaa between or lean gains, which is hard for the first few weeks.

 

[Gutterpump]

It doesn't matter how many meals you have, if you are within your macros for the day you won't put on fat. I can only say from personal experience that no other eating plan has given me the results I am experiencing now. Initially it was hard getting in so many kcals in a meal but I am used to it now. Studies have proven that there is no difference between 3 and 6 meals a day in terms of recomping.

If my macros call for 3500+ cals to gain, there is no way I can split that over 3 meals and not gain fat. Your body can't process all the protein + cals in such a big meal, unless on something and taking a ton of enzymes. There's no way that 1200 calorie meals won't put on fat... plus if eating clean, think of how hard it would be to eat 1200 clean calories in one meal.

Now when dieting, sure, I can eat 3 meals with lower cals, and lots of healthy fat + protein that takes a long time to break down, like beef...will still be a pretty hefty size meal to get down though. But there is no way I could ever bulk cleanly on 3 meals.

4-5 meals I like... with bcaas/eaa's in the morning. I love sipping on MST's RPG all morning long.

 

[SweetLou321]

You wont get fat eating 1200 cal meals man. And your body can and does process whatever you put into it.

 

[Gutterpump]

Right, if you're sitting at a desk, eating a 1200 + calorie meal, your body will process this....but the excess cals it doesn't need as energy at the time gets store as fat. I like to keep blood sugar levels pretty even all day too, and eating regularly / smaller meals / more often helps that out a lot too.

I've tried many diets in the past. CKD has shown me the most results when recomping, and worked well when in ketosis. But when bulking, eating something every 2-3 hours, and keeping myself full, gave me the best results. I am also on HRT, so all of my hormones are primed. Test/thyroid, etc all at top of range. I will still gain fat if I eat too much at once.

 

[SweetLou321]

You dont understand the body do you? You think eating one 1200 cal meal for 4 hrs will be diff then eating 2 600 cal meals for 4 hrs? Not likely. I mean everyone has their own way to diet and to see results. I like to eat 4-5 meals a day and let my stomach empty some and get an appitite to bulk.

 

[Gutterpump]

I do, and if you're eating very cleanly, no that shouldn't be too much of a difference...meaning only complex carbs, low GI foods, beef, casein, slow digesting foods. I wouldn't want to take it past 4 hours though. If you're getting 1200 cals in one sitting, of clean clean food, and doing this multiple times per day, then you're very disciplined and/or have a great appetite.

To get to 1200 clean calories in one sitting, would be pretty tough, for me anyhow. Whole milk, coconut milk (as a carb source), etc isn't considered clean to me, even though they easily boost cals (on paleo and modified diets). I don't eat grains either anymore now, which makes it even more difficult to get clean cals in.

 

[SweetLou321]

You eat rice and potatoes? But just diet the way that works for you man. I generally avoid grains, milk, and most other allergins. Healthy fats, rice and taters, meats and eggs, fruit and veggies is what most of my diet consists of. A lil cheese hear and there too. To bad cheese and rice are so acidic lol But eating high protein/fats should make it pretty easy to get cals.

 

[RawStrength]

Huge salad
2 tbsp of EVOO
2 cups quinoa
1 scoop whey, egg or casein
4oz sweet potato
1 tbsp of EVOO
1/2 tbsp butter
8 oz sirloin

Easily over 1200 calories and very doable in one sitting, especially after fasting 16 hours.

 

[Gutterpump]

^ that looks pretty good.
no rice, no quinoa, no dairy but sweet potatoes + fruit I'll be eating more of.
mangos, coconut, pineapple, berries all the good stuff, as many leafy greens as possible too

Of course lots of eggs, beef, bacon, all meat and lots of fat, no draining. lots of evoo and fish oil to balance it out, coconut oil too

 

[SemiBulimic]

You have to look at every day of leangains as a mini recomp. 16 hours cutting and 8 hours bulking. I have done ckd and TKD and keto and found this suits me best and gives the most consistent results. For me it was a hassle to cook all the time, bring a load of food to work, and generally have my whole day's activities governed by eating. Now I have most of the day free from these constraints and knowing I can eat like a demon when my fast breaks. I am stronger and leaner than I have been for a long while so I will continue with this for as long as I can Horses for courses mate. Do whatever works and suits. We can only tell you what has worked for us on Leangains and back that up with the available research and advise you accordingly but we aren't telling you that you should be doing this or that. Your choice

 

[Gutterpump]

You have to look at every day of leangains as a mini recomp. 16 hours cutting and 8 hours bulking. I have done ckd and TKD and keto and found this suits me best and gives the most consistent results. For me it was a hassle to cook all the time, bring a load of food to work, and generally have my whole day's activities governed by eating. Now I have most of the day free from these constraints and knowing I can eat like a demon when my fast breaks. I am stronger and leaner than I have been for a long while so I will continue with this for as long as I can Horses for courses mate. Do whatever works and suits. We can only tell you what has worked for us on Leangains and back that up with the available research and advise you accordingly but we aren't telling you that you should be doing this or that. Your choice

Yeah I hear ya, and lately I've been doing more of the leangains diet too... for me it made sense because I'm mostly active in the afternoon/evening and I'm trying to repartition my diet. But I've also been transitioning to a completely Paleo diet, so there are way more whole foods involved, and it's a bit more limited. It's definitely different when trying to get a high cal meal in, I'm not used to it yet.

 

[Rodja]

Yeah I hear ya, and lately I've been doing more of the leangains diet too... for me it made sense because I'm mostly active in the afternoon/evening and I'm trying to repartition my diet. But I've also been transitioning to a completely Paleo diet, so there are way more whole foods involved, and it's a bit more limited. It's definitely different when trying to get a high cal meal in, I'm not used to it yet.

EVCO
Whole Eggs
Uncured Bacon
85-90% Ground Beef

All Paleo and with tons of calories. There has been a movement away form Cordain's original stance where he lumped saturated fats together with trans fats, which is ludicrous. It took me a bit to break my habit of only lean meats, but, once I added in fattier cuts of flesh, my energy levels returned. As you also know, you can have the occasional feeding of red or sweet potatoes as well.

 

[RawStrength]

^ that looks pretty good.
no rice, no quinoa, no dairy but sweet potatoes + fruit I'll be eating more of.
mangos, coconut, pineapple, berries all the good stuff, as many leafy greens as possible too

Of course lots of eggs, beef, bacon, all meat and lots of fat, no draining. lots of evoo and fish oil to balance it out, coconut oil too

Quinoa isn't a grain

 

[Gutterpump]

EVCO
Whole Eggs
Uncured Bacon
85-90% Ground Beef

All Paleo and with tons of calories. There has been a movement away form Cordain's original stance where he lumped saturated fats together with trans fats, which is ludicrous. It took me a bit to break my habit of only lean meats, but, once I added in fattier cuts of flesh, my energy levels returned. As you also know, you can have the occasional feeding of red or sweet potatoes as well.

Thanks! I've been creating a large paleo cookbook. These things are definitely being used. Last night I made coconut/almond crusted chicken and a couple amazing salads, where I could swear I was eating crunchy carbs but hardly any in it at all except for the berries/fruit.

I'm going to add red/sweet potatoes once in a while. I was thinking post workout.

Btw, I came across this product today. Any thoughts on it? I'm thinking it could be a good alternative for supercarb.

http://www.coconutsecret.com/crystals2.html

 

[Gutterpump]

Quinoa isn't a grain

No? Every site I see online references it as a grain. I wonder why it wouldn't be allowed in a paleo diet then if that's the case. I definitely love it... gluten-free and high in protein.

 

[Rodja]

Thanks! I've been creating a large paleo cookbook. These things are definitely being used. Last night I made coconut/almond crusted chicken and a couple amazing salads, where I could swear I was eating crunchy carbs but hardly any in it at all except for the berries/fruit.

I'm going to add red/sweet potatoes once in a while. I was thinking post workout.

Btw, I came across this product today. Any thoughts on it? I'm thinking it could be a good alternative for supercarb.

http://www.coconutsecret.com/crystals2.html

Looks interesting.

No? Every site I see online references it as a grain. I wonder why it wouldn't be allowed in a paleo diet then if that's the case. I definitely love it... gluten-free and high in protein.

It's not a true grain and I'm not sure why it's on the don't eat list.

 

[SweetLou321]

Is rice aloud on paleo? And isnt quinoa acidic?
Also does protein synthesis happen while fasted? Layne norton says leangains isnt wise bc of this.
Do you guys think it matters if you eat a higher carb or higher fat diet for powerlifting?
Also on leangains the fast breaking meal or post wo meal is the biggest with about 100g protein...this wont turn to glucose?
Thanks lets keep the discussion going

 

[SweetLou321]

Those crystals look sweet

 

[RawStrength]

Looks interesting.



It's not a true grain and I'm not sure why it's on the don't eat list.

I can't remember off hand but it was something in quinoa that is a poison. Let me google real quick

 

[JudoJosh]

Here's what Cordain's has to say about quinoa:

"Quinoa and amaranth are grain-like crops with potential harmful substances namely saponins. Saponins have been demonstrated to increase intestinal permeability which is one of the factors contributing to many autoimmune diseases, as well as irritable bowel syndrome. So, we recommend to avoid quinoa and amaranth, specially if you suffer from an autoimmune disease."

I believe it is in the same family as spinach and technically not a grain.

 

[Gutterpump]

It's not a true grain and I'm not sure why it's on the don't eat list.

I found out today. Supposedly there's a protein in it that can cause Celiac symptoms. It's a slight chance, but it's there. Only way to tell is to introduce it into the diet. I want to be fairly moderate about being on paleo.

Most of the paleo people I know tend to drink whole milk when bulking anyhow, and same with powerlifters on Paleo, but I don't want to introduce milk since I'm lactose intolerant. Yogurt maybe, and kefir.

 

[Rodja]

I found out today. Supposedly there's a protein in it that can cause Celiac symptoms. It's a slight chance, but it's there. Only way to tell is to introduce it into the diet. I want to be fairly moderate about being on paleo.

Most of the paleo people I know tend to drink whole milk when bulking anyhow, and same with powerlifters on Paleo, but I don't want to introduce milk since I'm lactose intolerant. Yogurt maybe, and kefir.

I like to use whole-milk yogurt and Greek yogurt. I don't do true Paleo since I include dairy, but I avoid grains.

 

[Gutterpump]

I'm hooked on greek/natural yogurt with coconut in it, Liberté makes one that's amazing. I don't think I could ever give that up, it's too good.

 

[Gutterpump]

Here's a pretty good resource I came across:

http://www.paleoplan.com/recipes/

 

[Turnitup122]

If my macros call for 3500+ cals to gain, there is no way I can split that over 3 meals and not gain fat. Your body can't process all the protein + cals in such a big meal, unless on something and taking a ton of enzymes. There's no way that 1200 calorie meals won't put on fat... plus if eating clean, think of how hard it would be to eat 1200 clean calories in one meal.

Now when dieting, sure, I can eat 3 meals with lower cals, and lots of healthy fat + protein that takes a long time to break down, like beef...will still be a pretty hefty size meal to get down though. But there is no way I could ever bulk cleanly on 3 meals.

4-5 meals I like... with bcaas/eaa's in the morning. I love sipping on MST's RPG all morning long.

lol dude just gotta stretch the stomache out. im on leangains and my postworkout meal is 2000 calories which is basically consisting of a ton of oats, a sweet potatoe, and chicken. barbeque sauce on the chicken helps alot with getting all that down.
btw do any of you powerlifters on leangains train fasted? i feel so much stronger when i do

 

[Turnitup122]

Is rice aloud on paleo? And isnt quinoa acidic?
Also does protein synthesis happen while fasted? Layne norton says leangains isnt wise bc of this.
Do you guys think it matters if you eat a higher carb or higher fat diet for powerlifting?
Also on leangains the fast breaking meal or post wo meal is the biggest with about 100g protein...this wont turn to glucose?
Thanks lets keep the discussion going

martin berkam(leangains guy) says that you dont train completely fasted. you take 10 g bcaas before and that way you side step the problems of training completely fasted.

 

[Gutterpump]

EAA's are a good idea on this diet. I've been trying it out, and sipping EAA's all morning.
I used to train fasted years ago.. not for me. I workout in the evening now.. eating 2 hrs prior and taking 10-15grams of EAA's during and after. Trying to up my EAA's and cut down on protein shakes. Also cutting out BCAA's and replacing them with EAA's and extra glutamine + l-leucine.

 

[JudoJosh]

EAA's are a good idea on this diet. I've been trying it out, and sipping EAA's all morning.
I used to train fasted years ago.. not for me. I workout in the evening now.. eating 2 hrs prior and taking 10-15grams of EAA's during and after. Trying to up my EAA's and cut down on protein shakes. Also cutting out BCAA's and replacing them with EAA's and extra glutamine + l-leucine.

What brand EAA do you use? Or is it just bulk?