RAW RAW RAW max effort movements only !

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    RAW RAW RAW max effort movements only !


    ok well i ran 12 weeks of westside using coans bench press as my max effort movement and now i dont think i can run it again because my shoulders are feeling the full ROM bench every week. but the problem is last time i tried westside my lockout improved and i could board press great but was **** off my chest.

    so im asking EXPERTS of westside how to rotate movements for a raw Max effort upper body body workout.. i did fat bar floor press today which helped me move a heavy weight without feeling stress in my shoulders. Basically im strong of my chest tend to struggle half way up so i need a rotation based on that. However i cant completely neglect off the chest strength... I was thinking maybe this..

    Fat bar floor press 2 weeks
    3 Board press 2 weeks (this is my struggling point on max bench attempts)
    Heavy bench single on week 5.

    then based on this see my struggling point weather its off the chest or midway or very top... ill pick 3 movements do them 2 weeks each then take a max single on week 7...

    but i want ideas suggestions etc.. on raw max effort movement rotations pleasee

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    I rotated floor presses, 3 board presses, and glose grip bench presses two weeks each for my ME exercise and my numbers have shot through the roof. I'm looking forward to putting my shirt on and going forward with my training. Mt last raw ME day was yesterday and I put up a 440 pound glose grip bench press raw. My last raw 3 board press was like 515 or 520.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotbench600 View Post
    I rotated floor presses, 3 board presses, and glose grip bench presses two weeks each for my ME exercise and my numbers have shot through the roof. I'm looking forward to putting my shirt on and going forward with my training. Mt last raw ME day was yesterday and I put up a 440 pound glose grip bench press raw. My last raw 3 board press was like 515 or 520.
    ahh thanks alot i think im going to go with this Floor press 2 weeks. 3 board 2 weeks heavy single and see how it feels then do the 6 week cycle ur talking about! thanks alot man... any other advice
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    The traditional Westside method isn't geared towards raw lifters. I followed it for quite a while. My lockout work and triceps took off, but I had nothing off the chest. I needed to incorporate more raw benching off the chest. You can play around with variations, for example, touch and go, paused, wide grip. But I would increase the amount of time you spend actually benching for one. Add more shoulder work also. Overheads, inclines (although they have zero carryover for me, some guys like them), DB work (bench and overhead). And don't forget speed work, I do it in 3 week waves. 3 weeks speed, 3 weeks RE work.

    Here's a little article on raw benching from elite.

    http://www.elitefts.com/documents/ra...h_pressing.htm
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    The traditional Westside method isn't geared towards raw lifters. I followed it for quite a while. My lockout work and triceps took off, but I had nothing off the chest. I needed to incorporate more raw benching off the chest. You can play around with variations, for example, touch and go, paused, wide grip. But I would increase the amount of time you spend actually benching for one. Add more shoulder work also. Overheads, inclines (although they have zero carryover for me, some guys like them), DB work (bench and overhead). And don't forget speed work, I do it in 3 week waves. 3 weeks speed, 3 weeks RE work.

    Here's a little article on raw benching from elite.

    http://www.elitefts.com/documents/ra...h_pressing.htm
    thank you ive actually read this article before but after trying wendlers 5/3/1 i didnt really like his style of lifting. I did however notice that i was neglecting training shoulders directly and i need to add pushups to my routine. I started doing both of these.. I found Matt Reynolds Westside template and it seems legit.. He focuses alot on keeping the shoulders strong then he focuses on tris then pecs.. idk if i can post the article tho because the other website said you need his permission to post it?
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    Go
    Full range DB presses to max 5 or triple
    Floor press
    3 board press
    and start over
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    Quote Originally Posted by MongoSS View Post
    Go
    Full range DB presses to max 5 or triple
    Floor press
    3 board press
    and start over
    very intresting DB press to a max 5 or Triple... could i keep close grip bench press in there or should i take it out and just use a close grip of the 3 board?
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    keep a close grip in. The DB is mainly to improve starting strength and to improve stabilizer muscles.
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    I've read articles from Louie Simmons that his West side guys do DB presses every 4th week or so which would go right along with your advice. Don;t remember what the rep scheme was though. I throw i DB presses on my deload weeks which helps me with my power out of the whole and works the stabilizers. i feel much stronger and more refreshed after throwing in the DB presses on the deload.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    The traditional Westside method isn't geared towards raw lifters.[/URL]
    What this man said. Westside is geared towards lifters who pull or push in a suit or shirt. A geared lifters will never have problems in the hole, off the chest, or off the floor just because the equipment gives them enough rebound that it isn't a sticking point. If you do Westside style training, don't focus on the lockout portion of a lift. Do DB presses or overhead presses for bench ME, front squat and high bar for squat ME, pull to knees for deadlift ME, stuff like that. Also RE > DE for raw lifters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweekaters View Post
    What this man said. Westside is geared towards lifters who pull or push in a suit or shirt. A geared lifters will never have problems in the hole, off the chest, or off the floor just because the equipment gives them enough rebound that it isn't a sticking point. If you do Westside style training, don't focus on the lockout portion of a lift. Do DB presses or overhead presses for bench ME, front squat and high bar for squat ME, pull to knees for deadlift ME, stuff like that. Also RE > DE for raw lifters.
    I was reading an interesting article by scott yard, who has now converted to raw lifting, he said that in his training he found that he stagnated his bench by doing to much raw full range benching. I found the same in my training. I think that the best approach is to rotate partial and full range on a one week on one week off type schedule. Also you can add supplemental exercises like key presses, or db flys to improve pec strength and augment your starting strength. I find value in the repetition method as well, but I think it would be better used in rotation with speed work.
    Ex.
    Week 1
    ME Bench
    DE SQ
    DE Bench
    ME SQ
    Week 2
    ME Bench
    DE sQ
    RE Bench
    ME SQ
    Repeat cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MongoSS View Post
    I was reading an interesting article by scott yard, who has now converted to raw lifting, he said that in his training he found that he stagnated his bench by doing to much raw full range benching. I found the same in my training. I think that the best approach is to rotate partial and full range on a one week on one week off type schedule. Also you can add supplemental exercises like key presses, or db flys to improve pec strength and augment your starting strength. I find value in the repetition method as well, but I think it would be better used in rotation with speed work.
    Ex.
    Week 1
    ME Bench
    DE SQ
    DE Bench
    ME SQ
    Week 2
    ME Bench
    DE sQ
    RE Bench
    ME SQ
    Repeat cycle.
    Well as skill level develops, so does the need for complexity. Someone benching 450lbs would benefit from doing partials a whole lot more than someone benching 250lbs. To someone benching sub-300, the most beneficial thing would be to just bench more.
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    I have been on the 5/3/1 for awhile now

    Week 1- 3 x 3
    WEek 2- 3 x 5 with a heavy single and heavy double
    week 3- go for the heavy last rep just by doing singles all the way up
    Week 4- back to 3 x 3 deload when needed

    This is a version of the 5/3/1 matt rhodes did awhile back and also i use 100% of my max and only hit the targetted reps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownstown89 View Post
    I have been on the 5/3/1 for awhile now

    Week 1- 3 x 3
    WEek 2- 3 x 5 with a heavy single and heavy double
    week 3- go for the heavy last rep just by doing singles all the way up
    Week 4- back to 3 x 3 deload when needed

    This is a version of the 5/3/1 matt rhodes did awhile back and also i use 100% of my max and only hit the targetted reps.
    I would still only use 90% of your actual max for calculating training poundages. This will keep you making progress for a longer period of time. You're still handling "heavy" weights by working up on a fairly regular basis, so that shouldn't be a concern. If you don't do it now, I would strongly suggest you move back to 90% if any of your lifts stall as a way of "resetting".
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    i havent stalled yet... I go alot on feel sometimes i skip the heavy singles all together.. If i feel like im stalling ill take a week or 2 off or ill lower the training max! I just need to hit 270-280 when im on this evo stack!
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    I do off the chest just about every week, but I use accomodating resistance a fair amount.

    If you did Westside for 12 weeks and lost strength, then your choices in max effort exercises were not that great. If you're a beginner you're going to need more volume and more direct off the chest work. In other words, I wouldn't give a 250 bencher the same stuff to do as a 450 bencher.

    If you're concerned about raw work, the following have worked well for me for variation:

    full range regular bench
    close grip
    raw bench with bands
    raw bench with chains
    raw bench with bands and chains
    1 board
    reverse band
    pause benches
    hanging weight benches
    incline

    high rep dumbbells (not max effort... deload week only)

    I normally follow my first exercise with some board work. If I have bands/chains on the bar, I leave them on for board work. My rep ranges for the second exercise vary from singles to sets of 10 depending on what my training goals are. I tend to stick with the same board height for at least 4-6 weeks before changing.

    I am very much against max effort dumbbells, I think it's a bad idea with little carry over into a barbell bench. Most gyms don't have dumbbells that are heavy enough anyway. I love dumbbells for deload week stuff or high rep work, if you need a heavy barbell out of your hands.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJPopovich View Post
    I do off the chest just about every week, but I use accomodating resistance a fair amount.

    If you did Westside for 12 weeks and lost strength, then your choices in max effort exercises were not that great. If you're a beginner you're going to need more volume and more direct off the chest work. In other words, I wouldn't give a 250 bencher the same stuff to do as a 450 bencher.

    If you're concerned about raw work, the following have worked well for me for variation:

    full range regular bench
    close grip
    raw bench with bands
    raw bench with chains
    raw bench with bands and chains
    1 board
    reverse band
    pause benches
    hanging weight benches
    incline

    high rep dumbbells (not max effort... deload week only)

    I normally follow my first exercise with some board work. If I have bands/chains on the bar, I leave them on for board work. My rep ranges for the second exercise vary from singles to sets of 10 depending on what my training goals are. I tend to stick with the same board height for at least 4-6 weeks before changing.

    I am very much against max effort dumbbells, I think it's a bad idea with little carry over into a barbell bench. Most gyms don't have dumbbells that are heavy enough anyway. I love dumbbells for deload week stuff or high rep work, if you need a heavy barbell out of your hands.

    yea i went back onto the 5/3/1 wendler routine for a while with good results now ill use brian schaubs 12 week raw cycle b4 doing my first meet.
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    okay what is the brian schaub 12 week program?

    i train westside raw, and am going to stick with:
    Close-Grip Bench Press
    Competition Bench
    Floor Press
    Pause Bench

    I found inclines don't do much of anything, nor does overhead pressing.

    How do you guys set up your assistance?
    I usually hit my ME lift for 3-7 singles at 90%+, then switch to either a 5x5 with lockouts or a standing military press. Then I end up doing DB work of some sort (incline, flat, pause) for 4-5 sets in the 8-12 rep range, some form of row, then some super high rep (4 sets of 15-25 reps) work for shoulders or tris in the form of pressdowns, skullcrushers, lateral raises, pushups, or dips.

    Is this good?
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    Basically Brian Schwuabs 12 week program is

    2 board singles
    1 board singles
    3 board triples
    2 board triples
    1 board triples
    3 board doubles
    2 board doubles
    1 board doubles
    3 board singles
    2 board singles
    1 board singles
    deload 5 rep 4 rep
    meet

    so for max effort u do board work i use elbow sleeves for this...

    For Repeition day it goes 8,7...7,6....6,5.....5,4..... like that

    For assitance work i go on feel... On max effort day ill do db floor presses and upper back work for high reps... For repitition days i do shoulder work and incline tricep work...
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