Novie Power Lifter in Need of Some Advice
- 02-14-2010, 03:13 AM
Novie Power Lifter in Need of Some Advice
Hey, I have been reading thru this section for a while now and I am in need of some advice. Since Septemeber, I have been using Wendler's 5-3-1. My maxes are at about 400,315,and 225 for the dead,squat, and bench. Last month I stalled and in these next two weeks I'll probably stall again, the 3x5 day was seemingly difficult. I was wondering how a Ed Coan Dead and Squat program mixed with West Sides ME and De Upper days would work? I ask this only because I feel like in order to improve my lifts, I feel the need to work my lifts specifically. Any ideas and advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
- 02-14-2010, 03:38 AM
02-14-2010, 03:54 AM
02-14-2010, 04:00 AM
02-14-2010, 01:26 PM
why dont u do what Wendler suggests when getting stuck? reset your max to 90% and start again. also, which percentages are you using, 5/3/1 has two, one tougher than the other, suggest using the lesser one as you declare yourself to be a novice.
(also, I am assuming that you are follwoing the program faithfully, with a deload week and such)
02-14-2010, 02:43 PM
02-14-2010, 05:31 PM
02-14-2010, 05:35 PM
02-14-2010, 06:59 PM
02-14-2010, 10:30 PM
now if you use dealidft and squat routine at the same time that will not work.
02-14-2010, 11:27 PM
I stick with the 5-3-1 program and just switch up my exercises.... Like instead of doing bench press I might do 2 board, 1 board, floor press, decline, incline etc... and use that as my ME lift for 3 weeks and then I switch the exercise again... and so on with my Deadlift/Squat ME and Military Press ME day.... Then during my deload week I do Dynamic Method training and dont use any weights higher than 65% of my 1rm
02-14-2010, 11:29 PM
Monday ME upper..
ME movement: coans bench routine weather its 2 x 10, or 2 x 1 thats ME movement...
weakness assistance movement- my weakness is my lockout 3/4ths the way up. so i do close grip floor press without flaring my elbows at all this is for 4 setts of 6-10 reps... this should be a heavy movement to help ur weakness.
Then shoulders- my frnt delts get enough work from bench so i do face pulls and lateral raises. 3 x 10-15 for each.
Tricep Endurance- 4 x 25 pulldowns this is to build up endurance so that ur triceps dont fatiuge quick focus on form. and dont go too heavy...
this is very similar to defrancos westside for skinny bastards 1 except i do no back movement and 2 shoulder movements.. i do 2 back movements on DE day because i can go heavier then... with this routine the key to successfor me is the weakness asssitance movement. which u should rotate every 2-3 weeks, and also pick it so its not stressing ur rotator cuffs since u will be doing full ROM bench press every week. so basically rotate the Weak assistance movemnt like a ME. but keepME as your bench press that coan suggests..
i dont do a upper body DE i do an assistance day which i do
C.G board Press 2 x 3 or 2 x 5 but rotated with other weaknesses.
D.B exentions seated 4 x 8-10 (or other moderate difficulty tricep lift)
2 back movements one heavy and basic such as rows another is a form of pulling such as pulldowns seated row etc.. both 3 x 8
(flyes and bicep work if u want dont go heavy on flyes tho)
since i lift raw and feel that i need to do the full ROM to do the actualy lift this has worked the best..this hits the tris hard without killing your rotator cuffs. and you still use the westside way of using different movements to help your weaknesses.
02-14-2010, 11:51 PM
Pick a program and stick with it. You didn't do the 5/3/1 correctly from the start if you used 100% of your maximums. You may also need to change your assistance exercises as well. With 5/3/1, you should be able to reach a much higher level of strength than you are at right now before having to completely abandon the program. I would advise you to stick with the program and reset to a point where you can exceed the rep minimums on the last set. I'm getting ready to start it up again after a meet, and I'm starting with 85-87% of my maximums as my initial training maximums so I can start with managable weights and build some momentum going forward. I would also do the version with the lower % sets leading up to the last set. Make sure you're not overdoing the assistance work either. You may also consider switching to the 3 day per week template of the program to get a little more recovery.
If you decide to switch programs anyway, I would advise you not to mix and match programs. Programs as made to go together as a whole and thus don't work as well when you are trying to combine different programs. Jumping from program to program to program is a recipe for not making any progress.
02-15-2010, 12:12 AM
02-15-2010, 01:32 AM
02-15-2010, 01:42 AM
I guess the way im looking at everything is, I like the idea of 2 upper days and 2 lower days each week. I don't feel confident in west side since im not directly training my deadlift with deads, and I always figured it was for much more experienced pl'ers than what I am.
My problem with 5-3-1 isnt the squats, press, or deads increasing, its the ****ing bench. I have long arms and am constantly trying to improve my form. My bench gets stuck at the bottom and pauses about where a 2-board press would be. Could I stick a 2 board press as the main movement and possibly throw in a dynamic bench workout after my presses to improve on form?
02-15-2010, 02:13 AM
02-15-2010, 02:55 AM
I think im going to stick with 5-3-1 and just take a step away from the process and re-think things. Look at my weakness on all of my lifts, re-calculate my maxes and such. I'll post back tomorrow with what I've come up with. Everyone has been a great help in this process. Thank you all.
02-15-2010, 11:14 AM
It doesn't matter if you know what all your maxes are with 5/3/1. I know all my maxes too, but I'm starting with 85-87%. Starting with 90% is done to start light and build strength over time, not because you aren't sure of your maxes.
If you're getting bored, pick a different assistance template to work from. There are a million ways to do your assistance work as long as you get some work in and have overall balance in your training.
02-15-2010, 01:06 PM
also make sure your increments are following the template, 5lbs for bench, 10lbs for squat/dl. it might not seem like a lot, but it adds up over time and lets you solidify your gains.
02-21-2010, 03:37 PM
If I were you I would run a classic periodization (like coans) for a while until you stall out. The extra work load will help you develop a strong base to work off of. Then I would transition into a westside protocol.
02-23-2010, 01:42 AM
02-23-2010, 11:42 AM
On the subject of 5/3/1 there's a good interview with tate and wendler: http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_a...te_and_wendler
and in particular a few quotes that I think apply to the OP:-
"I've learned over the years that the fewer variables you have in your program, the easier it is to see what's wrong. I can make one little change and get back on course. "
"Every program is 8 weeks to this, 12 weeks to that. When you look at it, though, Dave's been training for 30 years. When he sees an 8-week program, it's a very small bit of his overall training life. Yet all these guys want everything to happen in those eight weeks.
Does anyone want to hear "24 months to a better body?" Hell no. But it's the truth. And, really, two years isn't that long at all."
"Jim's breaking PR's every week and things are always moving forward. That's very important. "
I think if wendler, with his many years of lifting experience is STILL making gains on 5/3/1 there's something very wrong if you aren't. You need to step back, take an ego check start from scratch and build again.
On a side note - the 'bloat walk' - very very funny
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