Rate the PCT, but keep it cool guys
- 07-17-2008, 03:19 AM
Rate the PCT, but keep it cool guys
So my last cycle I ran a 4 week cycle of hemaguno stacked with Orastan A. The results were great, however my final week of PCT was messed up due to an extreme stomach bug that caused me to ummmmm, not keep anything down so to speak. It was like I was a 24/7 bullimic for about 7 days.
After coming off of my PCT, I got some rebound water weight gain and a small amount of fat accumulation (not much), even with my clean diet. No gyno, I am not prone to it, no ball shrinkage that I could...see, no loss in gains, however in my job of being an actor, the rebound gains are simply not acceptable.
I am running another cycle and I'm looking to set up a perfect PCT, however I am unable to gain access a SERM. Besides that, I am in no way prone to gyno and after running a methyl I would rather not take anything additionally toxic.
Here is what I plan to use for my PCT this time to optimally guarantee keepin that damn bloatin' estrogen down and bring the test back up
Novedex XT (tapered down)
Diesel Test Hardcore
Any other/alternate suggestions? I understand alot of people will scream SERM, and while yes I know they are the most preferred and popular, I do not have Western Union, access to online research companies (and believe me, I have SEARCHED) plus the side effects of most of them scare me a little bit. However if any of you can sell me on one that will not agonize other tissues besides breast (aka give me MORE post cycle bloating) or help me find an affordable place to find one, then suggest it.
Oh yeah....and let's not get insulting or nasty. I read alot of posts with smart alec's. They need not apply. I'm only asking for more knowledge, not put downs.
- 07-17-2008, 05:11 AM
Anabolic Innovation's Post Cycle Support and Prmordial Performance's Sustain Alpha are two of the best OTC post cycle products available IMO. Indole 3-Carbinol is also a valuable tool post cycle.
SERMs are not that hard to obtain. They are available for research.
After some more research, you may want to rethink your PCT plan.
07-17-2008, 08:22 AM
If it were me, I would run post cycle support and dermacrine sustain alpha combined.
I don't know about retain and activate. sounds like overkill imo. I'd probably add an anti-cort like lean extreme.
drop the novedex. my .02
07-17-2008, 09:37 AM
If choose to go serm-less, thats your decision.
Below is my new favorite pct...........this may not be enough if shutdown is bad, if shutdown is really bad ,i would blast clomid for 7 to 10 days, then this
Activate Xtreme-1,1,2 preworkout or 5 pm.
i really like this stack..... im sold on it.........I will use this for almost any cycle. For the hardcore cycles, I would blast clomid 100mg ED 1 week, then 50mg ED 2nd week......... then the above stack....
my 2 cents.
07-17-2008, 10:39 AM
I have used PCS and Sustain alpha together. Both work excellent. However in the future I will run one or the other. Or one followed by the other. Not a fan of Novadex xt.
07-17-2008, 11:23 AM
Ok, quick question, how come there are two votes thus far to drop Novedex? Wouldn't a suicide aromatase inhibitor keep my estrogen low, block excess androgenic activity at the hypothalamus, whlie the activate and diesel boosts my natural test/stimulates my LH?
Edwards, correct me if I'm wrong but Retain IS an anti-cort yes? Therefore no need for Lean Xtreme.
Mattikus. Thank you for your input. I do know they are available for research however despite this they are difficult to obtain. The sites where they are more easily obtainable are Western Union ONLY sites, which I don't have. On top of it, because even SERM's are more known to modulate/block estrogen from the breast tissue sites, rather than lower it per se, won't I need an AI/ATD to lower the estrogen running through my system now? (Although Aromasin looks good but again, another pharmaceutical compound that I need a reference to.
Another question now, since SERM's have been reported to be anti estrogenic in some tissues (ie Breast) and actually ESTROGENIC in some, would this prove to be further consequential in my quest to knock off the post cycle water retention? Meaning it could agonize other estrogen prone tissues in the body but keep my chest, which isn't gyno prone, perfectly fine?
And yes I know their other usage is the ultra fast raise in the HPTA. However shouldn't Diesel/Activate take care of that?
07-17-2008, 11:47 AM
When you first come of a cycle of OTC hormones usually your estro levels will be just as low as your test levels. This is unlike say running a test cycle because the OTC hormones will not convert to estro while on cycle. So this is why most people recomend not using an AI dirrectly Post cycle anymore. Its pointless to crush already low estro levels. You need to allow you estro time to normalize just like test before running an AI.
Post cycle support(week 1-4)
Activate Extreme(week 2-5)
Lean X (3-6)
OTC PCT is usualy enough for most people who run lite cycles but its really not hard to get a SERM, and they are a must to have sitting around in case of gyno related issuse.
Lean X and 6-oxo will keep that water away that you are worried about.
07-17-2008, 12:22 PM
SERMS are easily available with just a credit card... or so I've heard. Sounds like you just don't have the time or energy to GET a SERM...
Regardless, I don't think you mentioned what you want to run this time... only what you ran last time.
07-17-2008, 01:40 PM
Ah I see what you're saying. So you recommend 6-oxo over the novedex the last few weeks? Now I have reading these boards and there seems to be some discussion on the 6-oxo having rebound cases, and a few mentions of it actually converting to certain estrogen metabolites. Anything you can tell me about that? Please absolutely let me know the reason for the AI over an ATD as I always like to learn more about these things. Is it because the ATD is considered TOO strong?
Believe me its not a matter of energy or what not per se. If anyone can e-mail me (which my email is listed on my profile) and give me a recommendation on for example toremifene or what not, I will take the time to go to that site, order it, and happily use it in my next pct. Oh sorry about not being specific Timberlaker. I am running another cycle of Orastan A and Hemaguno. I really have tried, am I am a thorough researcher, but I am being completely honest with you when I say it's proven difficult at the least.
I see that a bunch of people are recommending the Post Cycle Support big time. Now while I know the company deliberately put that product out as a PCT for epistane, can a product containing Reservatrol, which granted is a powerful extract yes, even at a high concentration as in PCS, be strong enough to ward off my previously mentioned concerns? Not that I doubt you guys, but it just seems too good to be true you know? But I could of course be completely wrong. I am after all, here to learn.
07-17-2008, 01:57 PM
07-17-2008, 01:58 PM
07-17-2008, 04:52 PM
You can read up on it here: No Excuses & No ***** ***: A Stupid People's Guide to PCT
since you're not using a serm, things might be different.
didn't know retain was an anticort. my bad.
07-17-2008, 05:28 PM
With any AI be it atd or 6-oxo there is the possibility for a rebound effect. This is due to the fact that when comming off an AI your test will be higher and estrogen reduced. Your body is constantrly trying to correct this while on the AI but the AI blocks this from happing by inhabating test from converting to estrogen. Once the AI is removed the conversion is no longer blocked and the body can over respond sending estrogen levels too high.
With tappering the AI down for instance 400/300/200/100 the chance of rebound is reduced. I suggest 6-oxo over ATD simply because ATD is such a powerfull inhibator it can crush estrogen down to a level that encourages a rebound effect. ATD is dangerous anywhere near the end of a cycle in my opinion because of the continued suppression of normal estrogen levels.
07-17-2008, 06:12 PM
Hey Edwards, no worries man, so many names for so many products its hard to keep track ya know?
Nolbandet102, wow thanks for letting me know that. So now I have a couple of questions for you, since you've been so helpful (as you all have been).
1) Regular 6 Oxo or 6 oxo extreme? Which one would you recommend?
2) Any opinion on the rumors that 6 oxo can cause estrogen metabolites to form?
3) Instead of one final week at 100 of the 6oxo, should I do a 5 week pct and the last two weeks do 100 just to make the transition easier and chances of rebound smaller?
Thanks! You guys are great.
07-17-2008, 06:19 PM
07-17-2008, 07:45 PM
Either 6-oxo or extreme would be alright. The extreme is more expensive because it has the reversatrol in it, the same active in Anabolic Invoations Post Cycle Support. Its supposed to act similar to a SERM(Nolva). In my opinion regular 6-oxo would be fine and less expenive for the way your planning on using it. As fot the estro metabalite issue i havent seen anything about this, and I dont think its much to worry about. 6-oxo is a tried and true product with lots of bloodwork out there. I see no problem at all with doing an extra week at 100mg it will as yoiu suggested be even mor ehelpful to reduce the chance of rebound.
07-17-2008, 08:36 PM
Can't thank you guys enough for all of the info that you all provided. Greatly appreciated! What a knowledgeable board you got here!
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