[fogie13]

I've heard 2 different things on Liver support while on cycle:

1) Run Liver support while on Cycle to support liver function and avoid liver toxicity from specifically Methyl phs
2) Avoid running Liver support substances while on cycle as this gets in the way of ph absoption thus hindering the effects of the ph.

I always ran Milk thisle while on cycle but for my next cycle i'd just want to get some feedback on what everyone thinks personally of this. Sorry Cycle Support..

[Rob Awesome]

I'm going to say - if a product is methylated (coating that prevents liver degradation of substance) - you should consider utilizing a liver support/detoxification product because methylated substances are harsh on liver enzyme levels - thus becoming increasingly hepatotoxic (or hepatoxic).

I highly recommend SAMe, Liver Longer or Anabolic Innovations Cycle Support - as the 3 most used (in my reviews of the many PCT's I've seen of other individuals)

Liver support is IMO integral as it not being the largest internal organ it plays a number of key roles including regulation of metabolism, plasma protein synthesis & detoxification

Don't double question a Liver Support, IMO. Also look into I3C by NOW Foods. A great Hormonal/Liver support to run during PCT!

[fogie13]

Originally Posted by Rob Awesome

I'm going to say - if a product is methylated (coating that prevents liver degradation of substance) - you should consider utilizing a liver support/detoxification product because methylated substances are harsh on liver enzyme levels - thus becoming increasingly hepatotoxic (or hepatoxic).

I highly recommend SAMe, Liver Longer or Anabolic Innovations Cycle Support - as the 3 most used (in my reviews of the many PCT's I've seen of other individuals)

Liver support is IMO integral as it not being the largest internal organ it plays a number of key roles including regulation of metabolism, plasma protein synthesis & detoxification

Don't double question a Liver Support, IMO. Also look into I3C by NOW Foods. A great Hormonal/Liver support to run during PCT!

Wow thankyou for such a quick response R Awesome. Much appreciated. .Not even up for 5 minutes..I've never looked into I3C before though, i'll get onto that today.

Still i'd like to hear from anyone who might feel differntly, or for that matter agrees with taking Liver support while on a ph.

[Rob Awesome]

Originally Posted by fogie13

Wow thankyou for such a quick response R Awesome. Much appreciated. .Not even up for 5 minutes..I've never looked into I3C before though, i'll get onto that today.

Still i'd like to hear from anyone who might feel differntly, or for that matter agrees with taking Liver support while on a ph.

I3C contains certain phytonutrients found in cruciferous vegetables (broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, Brussels spouts... to name a few). Indole-3-carbinol (I3C) is known to promote the healthy metabolism of estrogen thus its use as an effective dietary supplement for estrogen-related conditions.

Just a forewarning - absorption is unpredictable with I3C, is dose limited due to toxicity above 400 mg/day.

Great product overall - you can always look into diindolylmethan - which is less hepatoxic and more predictable - which has been studied on men with estrogen-related conditions... Diindolylmethane is less reactive and less of an enzyme inducer than I3C, too...
Diindolylmethane does not induce the wide array of enzymes that I3C does, so there is less of a chance of interaction with other nutrients, hormones or medications.

[dmangiarelli]

Big Cat and Dr. D both say that Milk Thistle can interfere with gains. IMO, I'd rather err on the side of safety for my liver than worry about not gaining a lb or 2.

Cycle support also has compounds that help with the prostate which is affected by higher androgen levels in the body that bring on symptoms of BPH or enlarged prostate. You will also find support for Blood Pressure which is generally affected by both methyls and non-methyls as is prostate. Lipid levels will vary as well and LDL is usually seen on an uptick as HDL is lowered.

Good luck with your decision ...

[dmangiarelli]

Originally Posted by Rob Awesome

I3C contains certain phytonutrients found in cruciferous vegetables (broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, Brussels spouts... to name a few). Indole-3-carbinol (I3C) is known to promote the healthy metabolism of estrogen thus its use as an effective dietary supplement for estrogen-related conditions.

Just a forewarning - absorption is unpredictable with I3C, is dose limited due to toxicity above 400 mg/day.

Great product overall - you can always look into diindolylmethan - which is less hepatoxic and more predictable - which has been studied on men with estrogen-related conditions... Diindolylmethane is less reactive and less of an enzyme inducer than I3C, too...
Diindolylmethane does not induce the wide array of enzymes that I3C does, so there is less of a chance of interaction with other nutrients, hormones or medications.

One thing to be concerned with on the studies of DIM is that all of the studies were paid for by the manufacturer. Dinoii has written extensively on this subject.

The toxic levels of I3C are also studies put out by the manufacturers of DIM. I used I3C at 600 mgs a day in my PCT with absolutely no adverse effects and my blood work showed no abnormalities according to my endo ... I believe all compounds can be toxic given longterm use at high dosages but we are talking a 30 day period of PCT usage here.

[Rob Awesome]

Originally Posted by dmangiarelli

One thing to be concerned with on the studies of DIM is that all of the studies were paid for by the manufacturer. Dinoii has written extensively on this subject.

The toxic levels of I3C are also studies put out by the manufacturers of DIM. I used I3C at 600 mgs a day in my PCT with absolutely no adverse effects and my blood work showed no abnormalities according to my endo ... I believe all compounds can be toxic given longterm use at high dosages but we are talking a 30 day period of PCT usage here.

Thanks DMan. I've definitely heard of Pharmaceutical Corps sponsoring scientific studies of their own product - biased conclusive reports FTW - I appreciate the heads up and will look into this further!

[fogie13]

Originally Posted by dmangiarelli

Big Cat and Dr. D both say that Milk Thistle can interfere with gains. IMO, I'd rather err on the side of safety for my liver than worry about not gaining a lb or 2.

Cycle support also has compounds that help with the prostate which is affected by higher androgen levels in the body that bring on symptoms of BPH or enlarged prostate. You will also find support for Blood Pressure which is generally affected by both methyls and non-methyls as is prostate. Lipid levels will vary as well and LDL is usually seen on an uptick as HDL is lowered.

Good luck with your decision ...

Daaaaaaaaamn! LOTs of good stuff here , i never had even one idea of how proficient this I3C could be..alright, i'm 90% sold. And the price wasn't too steep either..way cheaper than going with something like Liver Longer, though apparently that's got it's fan base.

This all begs the question then: if i decided to go with I3C and PPC would Milk Thistle really be necessary. It's already pretty clear to me i'm running my liver support throughout the whole run..but do i really need Milk Thistle as well? And i had been looking at Cycle Support so coventously for the last 2 months..